submersible missing near the Titanic

[CdnCarrie]

FYI, I didn't think it was rude. (debate can seem offensive to some)
Also, there is ZERO use for a hashtag on a forum/message board, unless the board has a hashtag system/mod installed.

So the hashtag is what you strongly disagree with, or..?

No about media being biased. Too lazy to go look up the exact post.
But no I disagree that the majority of media is biased and that stream of thinking.

ETA - okay looked back - disagreed that they are selective to what to report and that most rather than some are entertainment.

Maybe I’m wrong but that’s my perspective. Never have I feel that someone was “ramming it down my throat “ or whatever it was that was said.

 

[MrsPete]

Or....waiting on the surface to get out as they can't open the hatch...it's screwed on from the outside. So, they could be on the surface and run out of air. It just seems incredibly risky on about every level.

About this floating on the surface /waiting to be let out thing ... why did they paint the sub white? Wouldn't it have been smarter to paint it bright orange or red? You know, so a plane could spot it more easily?

What if they need to do more than pee, though? I think my guts would be churning if I was facing probable death ...

While it's not their biggest problem, yeah. Sitting in your own poo (and other people's poo) would be the cherry on the top of an awful way to go.

... A writer/producer for The Simpsons went down to see the Titanic on this submersible last summer. He described it as "sinking like a rock for 2.5 hours"......then being pushed off-course by currents by about 500 yards.....then only having 20 minutes to see the Titanic as they needed to ascend. They got lost. It would just seem to be that they should have some guidance capabilities on the submersible itself, but instead it appears that they rely entirely on the vessel above for navigation ...

I read his story (and other people's stories). I don't remember which previous passengers said these things, but they struck me as awful:
- One person said that as they "sunk" for that 2.5 hours, they turned off the electricity and their only light came from glow sticks. You know, those little things they sell at the Dollar Store.
- One person said that -- for a time -- as they descended, the submersible turned vertical and they slid /fell on top of one another. It's possible these people spent their last hours not sitting cross legged in a small space but crammed into the butt end of this thing.

... And after hearing about who the CEO liked to hire - young, inspirational workers instead of 50 year old men who had submarine experience ...

I bet the 50-year old experienced submariners wouldn't go.

Yeah, my husband (engineer) is that one jerk in the room who won't sign off until every one of his questions is answered. It can be a pain to live with...but he's the guy you want running your nuclear reactor (which he did) ...

My engineer husband is retired from the nuclear industry, and -- yes -- he is also the jerk who wants to know about every nut and bolt, who will question every possibility. Neither your husband nor mine would've been hired to work for this company.

I feel for the families. As morbid as it is I hope they did implode and didn’t suffer.

I think we all hope that, especially now that the oxygen time line has run out.

... that there's no way for them to exit that thing from the inside ...

On the other hand, suppose they were trapped down there and COULD open it from the inside. As the hours went by, it's possible one of them could've opened it thinking anything is better than this -- and that would've meant immediate and certain death. We all know it's 100% impossible to swim up from that depth. Michael Phelps couldn't come close to do it.

No good option exists.

I heard that at a certain depth, the weight is equivalent to a 747 bearing down on you.

The depth is also an incredibly vast distance, it’s almost frightening to imagine. There’s various info graphics circulated to illustrate how far down this is.
Here’s one:
View attachment 769871

Nothing like a graphic to give us perspective.

Somehow, going DOWN in depth seems scarier than going out into outer space.

Mayhap that's because we all have experience being underwater, and we have a healthy respect for its power, whereas space is hypothetical for us?

I think it says a lot about our society that we care more about 5 rich guys in a homemade submarine than about the hundreds of migrants that drowned. I guess that second story isn't as sexy for the media because there's no suspense.

Disagree. I'd be just as concerned if that submersible contained five low-level enlisted Navy seamen. I think we all can't stay away from this story because it's unique and tragic -- and because we like to see people "win" at long odds, though that's not going to happen now.

The Coast Guard has just said they have discovered a debris field. They are not sure yet if it's the Titan.

I didn't hear that. Is it on the ocean floor? Would they be able to tell if it were new debris?

... I guess I don't completely see the point of risking my life to see the titanic ruins. The 5 in the sub only get to see it on a monitor ...

No, they have a tiny viewing window. I read in one of the accounts of previous voyages that they spent significant time scooting around the ocean floor looking for the ruins and only had about 20 minutes to view Titanic.

I hope if they are alive and running out of oxygen they don't turn on each other down there.

I'd be first to go because I'd never think of that.
A less sinister possibility is that IF they crashed on the ocean floor, some of the explorers might not've survived the crash.
Anyway, it's possible that five people weren't sharing that air.

 

[dvcgirl67]

About this floating on the surface /waiting to be let out thing ... why did they paint the sub white? Wouldn't it have been smarter to paint it bright orange or red? You know, so a plane could spot it more easily?

While it's not their biggest problem, yeah. Sitting in your own poo (and other people's poo) would be the cherry on the top of an awful way to go.

I read his story (and other people's stories). I don't remember which previous passengers said these things, but they struck me as awful:
- One person said that as they "sunk" for that 2.5 hours, they turned off the electricity and their only light came from glow sticks. You know, those little things they sell at the Dollar Store.
- One person said that -- for a time -- as they descended, the submersible turned vertical and they slid /fell on top of one another. It's possible these people spent their last hours not sitting cross legged in a small space but crammed into the butt end of this thing.

I bet the 50-year old experienced submariners wouldn't go.

My engineer husband is retired from the nuclear industry, and -- yes -- he is also the jerk who wants to know about every nut and bolt, who will question every possibility. Neither your husband nor mine would've been hired to work for this company.

I think we all hope that, especially now that the oxygen time line has run out.

On the other hand, suppose they were trapped down there and COULD open it from the inside. As the hours went by, it's possible one of them could've opened it thinking anything is better than this -- and that would've meant immediate and certain death. We all know it's 100% impossible to swim up from that depth. Michael Phelps couldn't come close to do it.

No good option exists.

Nothing like a graphic to give us perspective.

Mayhap that's because we all have experience being underwater, and we have a healthy respect for its power, whereas space is hypothetical for us?

Disagree. I'd be just as concerned if that submersible contained five low-level enlisted Navy seamen. I think we all can't stay away from this story because it's unique and tragic -- and because we like to see people "win" at long odds, though that's not going to happen now.

I didn't hear that. Is it on the ocean floor? Would they be able to tell if it were new debris?

No, they have a tiny viewing window. I read in one of the accounts of previous voyages that they spent significant time scooting around the ocean floor looking for the ruins and only had about 20 minutes to view Titanic.

I'd be first to go because I'd never think of that.
A less sinister possibility is that IF they crashed on the ocean floor, some of the explorers might not've survived the crash.
Anyway, it's possible that five people weren't sharing that air.

Sadly, I think that it's come to light that many, many things seemed to be off with this company and it's submersible. Corners were cut and the CEO (who also lost his life) seemed determined to try "outside the box" ideas with young "innovative (meaning inexpensive)....engineers.

The debris field found is on the ocean floor, roughly 500 meters from the bow of the Titanic. They know it's the sub....from the parts of it easily identified.

I believe in the days to come we'll learn that they likely died on Sunday about one hour and forty-five minutes into the dive....when they lost contact with the mother ship. They wouldn't have been at the bottom yet unless their descent sped up for some reason. Seems likely the sub imploded somewhere just above the titanic....and then drifted down, ironically, just as she did. They have already said that the sub didn't implode in recent days....as they've had sonar devices in the search area and an implosion of that submersible would have been unmistakable.

I saw that James Cameron has commented and brought up the similarities between the Titanic and the Titan. The Titanic had been warned about excessive icebergs in the North Atlantic, yet sped ahead...trying to make the crossing in record time. The Oceangate submersible had also been given plenty of warnings about their design and operations by many experts in the submarine/submerisble industry. And those warnings were ignored. What they fears was a catastrophe that would endanger lives and set the whole industry back as a whole. They were right.

I saw that the co-founder of the company said that the employees were in shock at the loss of the submersible and those aboard. I'm sure they'll also be filling out resumes as the company will most certainly fold. And I don't care what waivers were signed by those taking the trip.....there's a plethora of news coming out that Oceangate may not have been completely forthright about the dangers of the expedition. Let the lawsuits begin. I'm not sure if there's any money to get as I'm not sure the company was profitable. But....I'm sure they'd move forward with them, if only to be sure they're out of business.

 

[MrsPete]

Sadly, I think that it's come to light that many, many things seemed to be off with this company and it's submersible. Corners were cut and the CEO (who also lost his life) seemed determined to try "outside the box" ideas with young "innovative (meaning inexpensive)....engineers.

The debris field found is on the ocean floor, roughly 500 meters from the bow of the Titanic. They know it's the sub....from the parts of it easily identified.

I believe in the days to come we'll learn that they likely died on Sunday about one hour and forty-five minutes into the dive....when they lost contact with the mother ship. They wouldn't have been at the bottom yet unless their descent sped up for some reason. Seems likely the sub imploded somewhere just above the titanic....and then drifted down, ironically, just as she did. They have already said that the sub didn't implode in recent days....as they've had sonar devices in the search area and an implosion of that submersible would have been unmistakable.

I saw that James Cameron has commented and brought up the similarities between the Titanic and the Titan. The Titanic had been warned about excessive icebergs in the North Atlantic, yet sped ahead...trying to make the crossing in record time. The Oceangate submersible had also been given plenty of warnings about their design and operations by many experts in the submarine/submerisble industry. And those warnings were ignored. What they fears was a catastrophe that would endanger lives and set the whole industry back as a whole. They were right.

I saw that the co-founder of the company said that the employees were in shock at the loss of the submersible and those aboard. I'm sure they'll also be filling out resumes as the company will most certainly fold. And I don't care what waivers were signed by those taking the trip.....there's a plethora of news coming out that Oceangate may not have been completely forthright about the dangers of the expedition. Let the lawsuits begin. I'm not sure if there's any money to get as I'm not sure the company was profitable. But....I'm sure they'd move forward with them, if only to be sure they're out of business.

Every word you say makes sense.

 

[BlueStarryHat]

How long would you have us wait?

Unnecessary snarkiness. I thought this was a thread about what has turned into a horrific tragedy. I guess not. Carry on.

 

[RedHead0186]

Reports indicate the 19 year old didn't want to go, but did because it was Father's Day and he wanted to please his dad. If that's true, that's heartbreaking (more than this whole thing already is).

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/titanic-submersible-shahwood-suleman-family-tragedy-rcna90678

 

[dvcgirl67]

Now seeing reports that the U.S. Navy did indeed hear the implosion. We have a "top secret detection system" in place to detect enemy submarines. The report is that the implosion heard coincides with the time that the mother ship lost contact with the sub.

Soooo....if this is true....they had to have known that they've been dead....since Sunday. Why the big "search and rescue" show? I mean, if the sound of the implosion didn't coincide with the exact time of loss of comms....I'd get it, but it seems that it did.

They say they did use the data to narrow the search area for the submersible. But....why the flying all over the place looking for what we all hoped would be a "submersible bobbing on the surface"? Seems like....they knew that would never be found. All of that seems to have been done simply to make the families feel better until they could get a submersible ROV out there to confirm what they've known all along?

 

[QueenIsabella]

Sadly, I think that it's come to light that many, many things seemed to be off with this company and it's submersible. Corners were cut and the CEO (who also lost his life) seemed determined to try "outside the box" ideas with young "innovative (meaning inexpensive)....engineers.

The debris field found is on the ocean floor, roughly 500 meters from the bow of the Titanic. They know it's the sub....from the parts of it easily identified.

I believe in the days to come we'll learn that they likely died on Sunday about one hour and forty-five minutes into the dive....when they lost contact with the mother ship. They wouldn't have been at the bottom yet unless their descent sped up for some reason. Seems likely the sub imploded somewhere just above the titanic....and then drifted down, ironically, just as she did. They have already said that the sub didn't implode in recent days....as they've had sonar devices in the search area and an implosion of that submersible would have been unmistakable.

I saw that James Cameron has commented and brought up the similarities between the Titanic and the Titan. The Titanic had been warned about excessive icebergs in the North Atlantic, yet sped ahead...trying to make the crossing in record time. The Oceangate submersible had also been given plenty of warnings about their design and operations by many experts in the submarine/submerisble industry. And those warnings were ignored. What they fears was a catastrophe that would endanger lives and set the whole industry back as a whole. They were right.

I saw that the co-founder of the company said that the employees were in shock at the loss of the submersible and those aboard. I'm sure they'll also be filling out resumes as the company will most certainly fold. And I don't care what waivers were signed by those taking the trip.....there's a plethora of news coming out that Oceangate may not have been completely forthright about the dangers of the expedition. Let the lawsuits begin. I'm not sure if there's any money to get as I'm not sure the company was profitable. But....I'm sure they'd move forward with them, if only to be sure they're out of business.

The Navy heard the implosion days ago, at about the time communication was lost. They conveyed this information to the search and rescue teams.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-navy-detected-titan-sub-implosion-days-ago-6844cb12

My apologies if that's behind a paywall.

In the coming days, they'll try to pull up what they can from the debris fields. I don't know how much they can get, but I hope they can determine what happened, to prevent further tragedies.

 

[Imzadi]

The US Navy is now reporting that they have some auditory monitoring system in the ocean. They had detected and recorded what they believe is the sound of the implosion. It happened at about the time and place where the Titan lost contact. They said they had alerted the US. Coast Guard about the sound right after they heard it.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Now seeing reports that the U.S. Navy did indeed hear the implosion. We have a "top secret detection system" in place to detect enemy submarines. The report is that the implosion heard coincides with the time that the mother ship lost contact with the sub.

Soooo....if this is true....they had to have known that they've been dead....since Sunday. Why the big "search and rescue" show? I mean, if the sound of the implosion didn't coincide with the exact time of loss of comms....I'd get it, but it seems that it did.

They say they did use the data to narrow the search area for the submersible. But....why the flying all over the place looking for what we all hoped would be a "submersible bobbing on the surface"? Seems like....they knew that would never be found. All of that seems to have been done simply to make the families feel better until they could get a submersible ROV out there to confirm what they've known all along?

Just because the Navy heard it, doesn't mean they were absolutely sure of what they heard. It was more like another piece of data to help the searchers. It could have been something else--seismic activity, or even a collision of some kind. If Titan had hit something, it might have still been intact.

That said, I suspected an implosion from the start, just because it was the most likely scenario. But, I can't fault people from having hope that something less catastrophic happened.

 

[Claudia1]

Even if the search and rescue teams felt the explosion was the Titan, I can understand why they would continue a search. Nobody wants to quit and possibly cause the loss of life without positive confirmation.

 

[Imzadi]

Even if the search and rescue teams felt the explosion was the Titan, I can understand why they would continue a search. Nobody wants to quit and possibly cause the loss of life without positive confirmation.

Exactly. A suspicion is not the same as a fact. If I was one of the loved ones of the victims, I'd want them to move heaven & earth to try to find them until it is known for sure that they were dead. This is exactly what the US. Coast Guard and united rescue teams DID do.

 

[Dan Murphy]

18 years old i

28 years

 

[MamaMermaid]

I'm glad we know that they didn't sit there waiting for oxygen to run out...

 

[dvcgirl67]

The Navy heard the implosion days ago, at about the time communication was lost. They conveyed this information to the search and rescue teams.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-navy-detected-titan-sub-implosion-days-ago-6844cb12

My apologies if that's behind a paywall.

In the coming days, they'll try to pull up what they can from the debris fields. I don't know how much they can get, but I hope they can determine what happened, to prevent further tragedies.

I just saw it too. It's tough paywall to bypass without a subscription. I'm just kind of like...."huh?" I don't think it's exactly a "top secret" that we have listening devices in the ocean to detect submarines. I mean, we all saw The Hunt for Red October....did we not? Why not mention this.....four days ago?

 

[dvcgirl67]

Exactly. A suspicion is not the same as a fact. If I was one of the loved ones of the victims, I'd want them to move heaven & earth to try to find them until it is known for sure that they were dead. This is exactly what the US. Coast Guard and united rescue teams DID do.

Perhaps, but they should have reported it. And I sure do hope that they at least told the families. We've been following this story for a week, waiting for updates...etc. I feel like I could pilot that submersible at this point I'm so familiar with the systems....and it doesn't exactly look hard.

Also...we got reports of the safety systems....the ways they may have surfaced....the banging under water at 30 minute intervals. The size of the search grid....on and on. I just think that it would have been helpful for them to report to the public....us taxpayers who are largely funding this search and rescue.....that on Sunday at the time of the descent, when the sub lost comms with the ship, the US Navy heard a big...."kaboom". That's all....would have been nice to know.

 

[QueenIsabella]

My engineer husband is retired from the nuclear industry, and -- yes -- he is also the jerk who wants to know about every nut and bolt, who will question every possibility. Neither your husband nor mine would've been hired to work for this company.

They can be a pain in the butt to live with, right? But, sometimes, you need people like that. The CEO would have benefitted, not only from an older person with submarine experience, but by a nay-sayer who would be willing to bring up structural or safety concerns. Visionaries and yes-men are great, but you can't be afraid of the hard questions that make you think.

 

[Chili327]

Now seeing reports that the U.S. Navy did indeed hear the implosion. We have a "top secret detection system" in place to detect enemy submarines. The report is that the implosion heard coincides with the time that the mother ship lost contact with the sub.

Soooo....if this is true....they had to have known that they've been dead....since Sunday. Why the big "search and rescue" show? I mean, if the sound of the implosion didn't coincide with the exact time of loss of comms....I'd get it, but it seems that it did.

They say they did use the data to narrow the search area for the submersible. But....why the flying all over the place looking for what we all hoped would be a "submersible bobbing on the surface"? Seems like....they knew that would never be found. All of that seems to have been done simply to make the families feel better until they could get a submersible ROV out there to confirm what they've known all along?

Just because the Navy heard it, doesn't mean they were absolutely sure of what they heard. It was more like another piece of data to help the searchers. It could have been something else--seismic activity, or even a collision of some kind. If Titan had hit something, it might have still been intact.

That said, I suspected an implosion from the start, just because it was the most likely scenario. But, I can't fault people from having hope that something less catastrophic happened.

Yea, easy for them to match all the hints, or factors now after the fact to determine what the noise was, & what the fate was, but that is definitely not something you start broadcasting until you are 99.9% sure of most if not all of the facts.

 

[Imzadi]

Perhaps, but they should have reported it. And I sure do hope that they at least told the families. We've been following this story for a week, waiting for updates...etc. I feel like I could pilot that submersible at this point I'm so familiar with the systems....and it doesn't exactly look hard.

Also...we got reports of the safety systems....the ways they may have surfaced....the banging under water at 30 minute intervals. The size of the search grid....on and on. I just think that it would have been helpful for them to report to the public....us taxpayers who are largely funding this search and rescue.....that on Sunday at the time of the descent, when the sub lost comms with the ship, the US Navy heard a big...."kaboom". That's all....would have been nice to know.

Director James Cameron was interviewed on ABC News along with another professional Titanic expert (who was friends with few of the victims.) According the Cameron, he talked to people on his Titanic grapevine, and they told him days ago about the sound the Navy heard. So, those who needed to know, (like those in the united international search teams) and those in the know did know.

And it's likely the families were told too. Yet, they were probably ALSO told that the search would still continue in all directions and possibilities just IN CASE something else happened, and until they got definitive confirmation.

What if an EXplosion happened because the Titan hit the Titanic and the sound we heard was the Titanic? And the force of the explosion blew the Titan, intact several hundred feet away, and they were able to float to the surface?

I just think that it would have been helpful for them to report to the public....us taxpayers who are largely funding this search and rescue.....that on Sunday at the time of the descent, when the sub lost comms with the ship, the US Navy heard a big...."kaboom". That's all....would have been nice to know.

This kind of rescue or recovery procedure didn't just happen in this situation. There was a building collapse in IA a few weeks ago and 4 people were still missing. The search crews kept looking until they located all the bodies. The same thing occurs during earthquakes and tornadoes, until all people are located. Sorry, YOUR tax dollars didn't get used in the ways you want.

MY tax dollars did get used the way I'm glad they did.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Yea, easy for them to match all the hints, or factors now after the fact to determine what the noise was, & what the fate was, but that is definitely not something you start broadcasting until you are 99.9% sure of most if not all of the facts.

Why not? The Coast Guard broadcasted every other detail....all of the assets moving into place. The amount of oxygen left, hour by hour. The huge search area....the under water banging. Why not tell us that the Navy heard a noise that matches the level of an implosion of a sub that size....at the precise time and place of the descent. Just leave it at that...it's information. I'd argue it was the biggest piece of the puzzle....and they've known from the jump. There has never been any hope for those five people....they used the info to find the debris field.