Stupid America...

I think of NEA as a teachers' union, not an education union.

The NEA's last annual agenda list included so many non-educational issues that it was pitiful. :sad2:

Let's crack open some vouchers.
 
This was not surprising or eye-opening for me at all.
edited to add: And, I agree Joe, the only word to use here is 'pitiful'.

Anyone who watched this program, and saw the true facts, especially the segment about the teachers.... :earseek:

They are virtually guaranteed their jobs and their salary for LIFE. Yet, they were chanting and waving signs and denying all the problems that are so obvious... Nowhere else is this kind of situation seen. And, yet, it is okay when it comes to our children... :guilty:

Well, for anyone who might have seen my posts on some of these threads.... now maybe you can see where I am coming from.

My views will NEVER change, now matter how 'WONDERFUL' these teachers think our educational system, ( NEA, Dept. of Education, etc...) and they themselves as teachers, are.
 
Bayshore Bandit said:
If you put our best public schools up against the best public schools in other
countries, I'll take the good old USA every time.

Guess you didn't see the facts where the 'good old USA' is WAY WAY behind most every other civilized industrialized nation ???????

Guess you don't really realize how our schools, and our children, are held hostage by these educational organizations.

Several people, from here, and abroad, were shown swearing that they would NEVER choose public schools in america. Including one State Governor....

It would be very very interesting to see how many Governers, and head of the State Dept's of Education send their kids to public schools. ????
 
chyam said:
What burns me is this country has so much money to hand out to other countries instead of helping our people first! Especially education and for the elderly, I cringe everytime I see how many billions we just give away! Charity begins at home and IMO we should see to our people first, after all it's our people that put that money into the tax coifers!When it's gone who's going to help us! Education should be the number 1 priority then helping this nations poor and elderly, and with all the natural disasters we have endured this year.........NO and now the fires out west, our people need some help...........I say the heck with foreign aid for a little while how about some American aid!


Actually, we just give about .14% of our GDP in foreign aid. Not 14%, but a fraction of one percent. I wish we would give more. There are literally millions of people around the world that die every year (many of them small children) when just a few dollars worth of aid could keep them alive. I don't think a couple dollars more or less is going to make or break any American kids' education (although I know most schools could use more money).

I also think parental involvement is important. I expect to supplement my kids' education, and reinforce and build on what they are learning in school. As an aside, my kids got redistricted and sent to the worst school in our county system. I was upset at first, but they have been put in gifted and talented classes and given challenging material. My older son just scored in the 99th percentile for math on a standardized test, so I don't think he's getting such a bad education even at this "bad" school. I've volunteered at their school, and I've seen that most of the teachers do a great job. But they have to deal with kids from 38 different countries, who often don't speak English well, and are sometimes dealing with bad home situations.
 

LauraR said:
Actually, we just give about .14% of our GDP in foreign aid. Not 14%, but a fraction of one percent. I wish we would give more. There are literally millions of people around the world that die every year (many of them small children) when just a few dollars worth of aid could keep them alive. I don't think a couple dollars more or less is going to make or break any American kids' education (although I know most schools could use more money).

I agree with this.

As far as the other issue, my entire family went to public school. We never lived in wealthy areas and my parents combined income was never more than $50K (which isn't much considering there are five kids in my family), until the last few years. Combined, I think we went to a total of 9 different schools, in three different states: different standards, different culture, different style, etc. Despite this, we all excelled academically and did great in public school.

Now, both of my brothers have bachelors and Masters degress, and one is working on a second Masters degree. I am currently in college. And my one sister is well on her way to being the high school valedictorian, and she is going to a small country school that has very little funding and not nearly the resources of some suburban and urban schools! Amazing, considering we were all public-schooled!

My point is not to brag, but to point out that this idea that public schools are failling our children, in my case, has NOT been true at all!
 
I guess what I see is right in front of my own eyes, which is my daughter's
PUBLIC school receiving the highest ranking the state of Ohio has, 2 years
in a row. I see public schools in Ohio continually blow away charter schools
when it comes to state rankings.

I didn't realize, as a teacher, that I was "holding my students hostage"??
Enligten me with your infinite anti-teacher wisdom.
 
There are great teachers with horrible students.
There are horrible teachers with great students.
There are parents that are involved and put their child's academics above everything.
There are parents who really don't give a damn.
There are parents who are TOO involved and challenge every bad grade the teacher gives Johnny, and complain about how much homework and school books they have to bring home.
There are parents who actually work together with the teacher to help Johnny do better, and help their children with their homework.
There are schools that brand new with state of the art everything.
There are schools that are rundown and in desperate need of repairs and upgrades.
There are affluent areas.
There are poor and crime-ridden areas.
Some districts make the choice to direct some money to decent salaries for teachers with the hope that it will recruit and retain motivated teachers.
Some choose instead to direct the money to the students, giving more money to sports, books, music programs and computer labs, but creating unhappy and unmotivated teachers.
There are parents who believe that education should continue at home.
There are parents who believe that it stops at the classroom door.
There are people who treat teachers with the respect they deserve and teach their children to do the same.
There are people who think teachers are just a bunch of over-paid, whiney cry-babies.

But you know what? Since our society knows not what they do, let's just blame it all on bad teachers and their evil unions. :rolleyes:
 
JulieWent said:
You'd have to be a real dunce at math to not understand why having 20 students in a classroom is better than having 30 students.
I went to a Catholic School where we had 30+ kids in a class, as opposed to the public schools which had less, and came out with a MUCH better education. So many times in public high I sat out, with other Catholic School educated kids, certain sections of classes...like basic grammar. The Catholic schools didn't have to, and didn't, take **** from kids, so they could concentrate on teaching.

I didn't see the show, but I have a HUGE problem with teachers and absenteeism. My DD had Pre-Calc Honors last year, with a teacher described by the department head (a friend of mine) as WONDERFUL...yet she missed a tremendous number of classes because of an ill daughter; I don't care how good a teacher is if they're not going to BE there. I sympathize with her situation, but does my DD get to put that on a college application..."I didn't do well because my teacher was absent all the time"? And the teacher...a lovely woman, personally...indignantly told me "It's the school's responsibility to get a sub who can teach the class." How many subs are sitting out there who can teach advanced Honors classes, just waiting around for a phone call? But lose her job, just because she's not doing it? Horrors.

Years ago, there was a situation in a town in MA where the principal would paint the flagpole every year. He had to stop, because it was a maintenance Union job, yet it wasn't in the budget to pay someone in the Union to do it. So much for chipping in and helping out.

As someone who worked in business for several years before having children and staying home, and whose husband works in business and works a huge number of hours (he's at work now), I'll encourage all my kids to teach (#1 is going to college next year to be a teacher...she'll be a WONDERFUL teacher)...summers and holidays off, and can't get fired? Bingo!
 
chobie said:
In their evaluations. Also most states they have at least one, and most often two years to decide if a new teacher will work out. They can non-renew those contracts at anytime and for any reason. Unless you beleive that teachers only perform well for the first couple of years and then slack off, it does appear that the admistrators are being lazy about the evaluation process.

ITA with this. I think that there are lots of "evaluation" papers being shuffled around, with the result that there is no sanction against teachers that over the years slip in their performance.

And yes, parents are responsible for being involved with their kids education and setting up an environment of respect for learning and education. Too many parents see the public schools as "free daycare" and its not until their kid has a problem that they care to get involved.

Again, ITA. I've said for years that the biggest problem with education in this country is that too many parents feel that their responsibility for their child's education stops when they drop them off at the school door. And having had kids in private school for going on 6 years now, I can vouch for the fact that this is not just a public school problem.
 
MaryAnnDVC said:
As someone who worked in business for several years before having children and staying home, and whose husband works in business and works a huge number of hours (he's at work now), I'll encourage all my kids to teach (#1 is going to college next year to be a teacher...she'll be a WONDERFUL teacher)...summers and holidays off, and can't get fired? Bingo!

Oh yes, that is why there are all these people in the business field just banging down the doors to become public school teachers. :rolleyes:

So why doesn't your husband just become a teacher? That $30,000 a year will go far if you sell that DVC. Also your DH can wait tables in the summer like my teacher husband did to make ends meet. Yeah, we're sure living the sweet life.
 
Where do teachers get judged for their performance? Every single day! Our principals, vice principals and directors walk around and can enter my room any minute. My students judge me every single day. Whether it's "Why do we need to know this" or "This is boring" or "This is my favorite class". There are evaluations, meetings, committees. Trust me, everyone knows who the "good" teachers are and which ones are not doing their jobs. Then, there's the people who do not bust their tail every single day like I do, who also feel that they can sit back and judge us.

To be honest, there are several teachers in my particular school, who, without question are doing a terrible job and should be fired. It seems to me that "good" teachers are under far more scrutiny, than certain others who have done inappropriate things. However, for every one of those teachers, I see a dozen teachers who are getting to school at 7:45 like me, dragging bags of papers home like me, spending 100 dollars on Halloween candy, or Christmas candy or Valentine's Day candy like me, or helping revise dozens and dozens of college essays on their "free time" like me. My point is- the majority of teachers are doing their best. Those that aren't usually aren't teachers for long.

It is truly laughable, though, to blame teachers and to say that they are not held accountable. Teachers are afraid of the administration. Administration is afraid of the Superintendent. The Superintendent is afraid of the government (where the money comes from). The students, however, are afraid of NO ONE. Students need more accountablity. They don't need people making excuses for them. Our government is telling us how many students learned the material by forcing us to pass a certain percentage on state tests. These percentages include students who are emotionally or learning disabled. That is unfair. We should not be teaching to a test, or judging teachers and students. We should be doing hands on learning in a supportive environment. The whole system is set up backwards. When you spend so many hours devoted to preparing children to pass the HSPA, only to find a gross mistake on the exam, it is difficult to see how what we are doing is the right thing for our children.

As a high school teacher, my perspective is a little different from when I taught preschool age children. In high school, cheating, drugs, sex, and violence are battles I fight every single day. I have students whose parents have kicked them out of their homes. Students whose parents refuse to even have them tested for a learning disability, or who refuse to medicate them consistently. Students whose parents abuse them- and even after it's reported, investigations are dropped and problems continue. I have students who got pregnant in seventh or eighth grade. I have students with problems that I cannot fix.

There are problems that are due to parents who simply should have not had children. There are problems due to students who have recognized that "passing is good enough" or "school doesn't matter". There are problems due to lack of money. There are problems due to unfit teachers. There are problems due to silly laws and governmental practices. There's enough blame to go around, but very little changes being made. Change must start at the top, that's all I can say. The saddest part is that this is something that impacts everyone. Just like in the Prince's See What A Scourge Speech (Romeo and Juliet) "All are punished!"
 
LuluLovesDisney said:
Where do teachers get judged for their performance? Every single day! Our principals, vice principals and directors walk around and can enter my room any minute. My students judge me every single day. Whether it's "Why do we need to know this" or "This is boring" or "This is my favorite class". There are evaluations, meetings, committees. Trust me, everyone knows who the "good" teachers are and which ones are not doing their jobs. Then, there's the people who do not bust their tail every single day like I do, who also feel that they can sit back and judge us.

To be honest, there are several teachers in my particular school, who, without question are doing a terrible job and should be fired. It seems to me that "good" teachers are under far more scrutiny, than certain others who have done inappropriate things. However, for every one of those teachers, I see a dozen teachers who are getting to school at 7:45 like me, dragging bags of papers home like me, spending 100 dollars on Halloween candy, or Christmas candy or Valentine's Day candy like me, or helping revise dozens and dozens of college essays on their "free time" like me. My point is- the majority of teachers are doing their best. Those that aren't usually aren't teachers for long.

It is truly laughable, though, to blame teachers and to say that they are not held accountable. Teachers are afraid of the administration. Administration is afraid of the Superintendent. The Superintendent is afraid of the government (where the money comes from). The students, however, are afraid of NO ONE. Students need more accountablity. They don't need people making excuses for them. Our government is telling us how many students learned the material by forcing us to pass a certain percentage on state tests. These percentages include students who are emotionally or learning disabled. That is unfair. We should not be teaching to a test, or judging teachers and students. We should be doing hands on learning in a supportive environment. The whole system is set up backwards. When you spend so many hours devoted to preparing children to pass the HSPA, only to find a gross mistake on the exam, it is difficult to see how what we are doing is the right thing for our children.

As a high school teacher, my perspective is a little different from when I taught preschool age children. In high school, cheating, drugs, sex, and violence are battles I fight every single day. I have students whose parents have kicked them out of their homes. Students whose parents refuse to even have them tested for a learning disability, or who refuse to medicate them consistently. Students whose parents abuse them- and even after it's reported, investigations are dropped and problems continue. I have students who got pregnant in seventh or eighth grade. I have students with problems that I cannot fix.

There are problems that are due to parents who simply should have not had children. There are problems due to students who have recognized that "passing is good enough" or "school doesn't matter". There are problems due to lack of money. There are problems due to unfit teachers. There are problems due to silly laws and governmental practices. There's enough blame to go around, but very little changes being made. Change must start at the top, that's all I can say. The saddest part is that this is something that impacts everyone. Just like in the Prince's See What A Scourge Speech (Romeo and Juliet) "All are punished!"


I watched the show and was very surprised at the scapegoating of the Teachers union. Our school teachers work very hard and are very dedicated. They are paid better than some areas and do deserve it. Our per pupil expenditure is the lowest for our area but student performance highest for that same area because the parents care about their children's education and the teachers are very good.

The standards are a joke because of the games districts are desperate enough to play. Keeping poor performing kids out on test days, only calculating the High school graduation rate from the seniors at the start of senior year. The worst example was a very well performing school who got a "failing" grade for failing to improve. Well when their kids are 98 percent proficient and advanced on the MCAS there isn't much room for improvement.

The biggest reason for private school doing well is the schools can choose their students and the parents are invested in their childs education. I would support vouchers if there was a web to support the harder to educate kids, learning disabled, the ones who are socially rejected etc. DBIL is an alternative HS teacher in Maine that gives kids an additional opportrunity to obtain a High School education without OOP expense for parents.
 
I'd like to see some of you teach. You can all sit on the internet and arm chair quarterback like you're an expert since you went to school. Get out there and do something.

Talk about pathetic. Blame the teachers, blame the government, blame the unions blame blame blame. How about some personal responsibility?

Why do private school students get a better education? Maybe because the parents care because they are paying for it? How many times has it been said that if the kid earns it they will value it more. Same theory, if you are shelling out money and invested in your child's education you value it more, the child is expected to perform better and they do.

My mom was a white teacher in an all black inner city school for 34 years. She spent thousands on food, coats, supplies, you name it. If she pushed the kids to learn more, to do better, their parents were up in her face calling her racist. Gave a grade the parents didn't like, her tires were slashed. Try to retain a child, hold them back, they were in her face with more threats.

Try teaching children who won't sit in their desks because they are afraid bullets may come through the window. Try teaching children who move 2 or 3 times during the school year. Try teaching children who are worried about jailed parents and attending funerals weekly. Try teaching children who's parents IRON them as a punishment.

Try doing that with 10 years experience for 40k a year. I earned nearly that my first job out of college.

The amount of teacher complaint threads on this board sickens me. Everyone has a gripe. But I don't see you all be re-educated and becoming teachers. If you think you can do so much better bring it on...teach.

One of my best friend's became a teacher. He was fired no problem. The reason 'spending too much time with students.' He was an english/fine arts teachers and really inspired his students. Got them involved in drama and took them on class trips to plays and other art events. Well suddenly some parents didn't like how much time he was spending with their children so union or not he was fired.

You can't have it both ways. Teachers get involved and your on the Dis saying none of their business, don't care about my kid. They don't do enough and your back online saying they don't inspire your child and don't give them enough attention. back and forth back and forth.

If you don't like it do something about it. I know there are teachers here that I'm sure feel horrible about how people really feel about them. Please know that not everyone feels thats way thanks you for the jobs you do. I also know there are some people going back to school to be teachers and I am thankful for them too.

Flame away
 
In response to the poster who said that the regular Public Schools 'blow away' the charter schools...

This report also states that that ALL schools are struggling, or lacking.... (None of Ohio's schools are excelling)

So much for excellence in education.

This also does not mention that many charter schools here are schools that may purposefully have a focus other than straight academics... Specialized Schools for the Arts, etc... And this also includes online schools, which teach children at home thru the internet. ??????

________________________________________________
School Performance in Ohio’s Inner Cities: Comparing Charter and District School Results in 2005

Download: http://www.edexcellence.net/doc/Ohio_cities_performance.pdf
This study offers an "apples-to-apples" comparison of charter school and district school achievement in four major Ohio cities: Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, and Dayton. The results reveal that most urban public charter and traditional schools in the state are struggling. The analysis, using 2005 School Report Card data from the Ohio Department of Education, shows that in Cincinnati and Columbus, district schools generally outperformed charters, but in Cleveland performance was split. Dayton district schools and charter schools performed almost equally in all grades, except in 8th grade where charters were ahead. The report also tracks district and charter school ratings and performance over time.

Date: 2005
Source: Thomas B. Fordham Foundation
________________________________________________
 
"This also does not mention that many charter schools here are schools that may purposefully have a focus other than straight academics... Specialized Schools for the Arts, etc."

Then should public schools which offer many different vocational programs in
which college prep courses are not the focus of many students be judged on criteria other than standardized test scores, SAT/ACT scores, etc.??



Obviously, to say that none of Ohio's public schools are excelling is just plain
ignorant.
No Child Left Behind Blue Ribbon Schools to Be Honored at State Board Meeting

Columbus – The State Board of Education will hold its monthly meeting Dec. 12-13 at the Ohio School for the Deaf, 500 Morse Road, Columbus.

At noon on Monday, the State Board will hold a special recognition ceremony for the 16 Ohio schools (14 public, 2 nonpublic) that were designated 2005 No Child Left Behind Blue Ribbon Schools by the U.S. Department of Education. A certificate of commendation will be presented to representatives from each of the following honored schools:

* Nativity School, Cincinnati Archdiocese;
* SS. Cyril and Methodius Catholic School, Cleveland Catholic Diocese;
* Newton D. Baker School of Arts, Cleveland City Schools;
* Columbus Grove High School, Columbus Grove Local Schools;
* Granville High School, Granville Exempted Village Schools;
* Kirtland High School, Kirtland Local Schools;
* Mariemont High School, Mariemont City Schools;
* Miller City High School, Miller City-New Cleveland Local Schools;
* New Bremen High School, New Bremen Local Schools;
* Genoa Elementary School, Perry Local Schools (Stark County);
* Pettisville High School, Pettisville Local Schools;
* Central Community Elementary School, Reading Community City Schools;
* Arthur Road Elementary School, Solon City Schools;
* Garfield Elementary School, Steubenville City Schools;
* Washington Elementary School, Tiffin City Schools; and
* Central College Magnet School, Westerville City Schools.

The No Child Left Behind Blue Ribbon Schools program recognizes schools that make significant progress in closing achievement gaps or whose students achieve at very high levels.
 
Bayshore Bandit said:
Accountability should be spread equally amongst teachers, parents, school
boards (both state and local), school administrations, and yes, even students.

So to place the blame of some districts failings (from some posts on this thread
one might think all public schools are a failing mess, which is absolutely just
plain wrong) strictly on the shoulders of teachers and teacher unions is just ignorant.

If you put our best public schools up against the best public schools in other
countries, I'll take the good old USA every time.

This is a great post and so is RadioNate's!! Don't put all the blame on the education system when I have parents who won't even go to their yearly parent-teacher meeting. :rolleyes:
 
MaryAnnDVC said:
I went to a Catholic School where we had 30+ kids in a class, as opposed to the public schools which had less, and came out with a MUCH better education. So many times in public high I sat out, with other Catholic School educated kids, certain sections of classes...like basic grammar. The Catholic schools didn't have to, and didn't, take **** from kids, so they could concentrate on teaching.

Yes, that's good. I love it when people compare private schools that get to pick and choose their student population to public school populations. So very democratic. So, let's see, if I get to pick my 30 BEST students, do you think that my classrooms will be able to produce stellar test scores?

(BTW, my classrooms DO produce stellar test scores. I teach pre-IB / AP students, and I teach inclusion special education students, and I teach heterogeneously mixed 9th grade student students. For the past five years, ALL of my students have averaged a two to three year increase in their test scores. That's averaged, MaryAnn. That means that those inclusion / special education students that wouldn't BE in the Catholic school that you went to ALSO made gains of more than a year in their ability levels. That DOESN'T happen in a mixed ability classroom or a low ability classroom with 30 students in it. Sorry.)
 
Not to bash teachers, but don't you find it appalling that they have these rubber rooms as they call it where teachers who should not be near any child are stored 6 hours a day with pay because to fire them would take years. Did you not see that graph of procedures the school administration must follow to fire a teacher? The one teacher which emailed the student with sexual language that they reported, you would to not think this teacher really needs to be fired and away from the kids put into your care on school hours. True the unions are here to protect the rights of teachers, but something is wrong when it's obvious a dangerous person can't be outright fired because of unions rules. The unions needs to amend those procedures for this kind of thing and as a teacher you should and as a union member you have the power to demand a change for the protection of the children.
 
I do not think you will find any teacher worth their salt that would not
be appalled by this. As a matter of fact, there is a local report around
my area of 2 different instances of alleged sexual misconduct between a teacher
and student (one female, one male). In both cases, if the teachers are found
guilty, they absolutely should lose their jobs.

I also think you'll find most teachers believe there is a lot of work to be done
in this nation's urban schools to make them successful, but firing teachers
based on standardized test scores or how they compared to kids in Belgium
is not one of them.

But to paint all public schools with this wide, general brush, and lump them together in saying that because one district's union does things one way, that
somehow they are all like that, is also wrong in my opinion.
 
We saw it last night. It was a great show and very eye opening. To me it seemed the teachers union is a problem and needs to have it's iron bond broken. I like what that one man said that money is not the answer. Adjusting for inflation we are now spending more per student than we did years go.
 


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