studio and 1 bdrm capacity and firecode.

[YoMickey]

Hi all. First post on the DIS board. Not a DVC member yet.

My wife and I are in the midst of crunching the numbers to see if this is really worth it.

Looking at the studio, 1 bedroom, and the 2 bedroom and comparing to the points needed and considering the room we would need. We have three small kids. 2 toddlers and an infant. Disney told us that the capacity at the Wildernes lodge Villas for the studio and 1 bedroom is a maximum of 4 people.

A 1-bedroom for our total stay would be around 465 points during easter. On the secondary market a pt sells for about $10 or $4650 for the lodging during Easter week. Kind of steep considering it doesn't include tickets or dining plus you'd have that pesky annual fee in there too.

Currently we have a trip planned to Orlando for Easter week. We are splitting it between Universal and Disney 5 days at Universial and 4 days at Disney. I added up everything. Lodging, character dining, and tickets at each place. Right now were at $4200.00 Staying in standard rooms with a view at Royal Pacific and Wilderness lodge.

If we could stay in a studio with 3 small kids it may make the numbers look better but right now we're having trouble with the numbers. Annnnd, I haven't even started to ask about trying to book something 11 months in advance and being told its sold out that week.

Can anybody explain the room capacity policies that they have experienced?

 

[greenban]

Currently Room Capacity Rules are very 'fluid'

One, as a former FireFighter, I don't for a minute buy the 'nonsense' about firecodes setting the occupancy limits. Why? Because, the DVC rules just changed, and I assure you the National & Florida State Firecodes did not.

Offical POS DVC Occupancy:

Studios: 4 people.

1 Bedrooms 4 people.

2 Bedrooms 8 people.

GVs 12 people.

Since I have been a member (2004), children under 3 have been allowed to sleep in the pack n play, raising every room class EXCEPT studios by 1 person.

Before that, there was a special BCV studio with a 'daybed', that offically allowed 5. However, that room type can no longer be requested or guareented.

Currently, MS has allowed, with confirmation of everyone's name 5 of any age in a 1 Bedroom, 9 of any age in a 2 Bedroom and 13 of any age in a GV.

MS states they will not provide any extra bedding, linens, or cots/rollaway beds for the 'extra' person.

Having slept 5 in an official POR 5 person room, you could easily and more comfortably fit 10 in an OKW 1 Bedroom, so the occupancy limits are not based on square footage (at least not soley). BTW before the flames begin, I'm not suggesting 10 in a OKW 1 Bedroom, just stating the fact that it would be less crowded than 5 in POR! (Been there done that, NEVER AGAIN!)

Hope this helps!

-Tony

 

[keys2kingdom]

A 1-bedroom for our total stay would be around 465 points during easter. On the secondary market a pt sells for about $10 or $4650 for the lodging during Easter week. Kind of steep considering it doesn't include tickets or dining plus you'd have that pesky annual fee in there too.

Not trying to pick this apart but if you rented points for $10pp there would not be any "annual fee" involved.

 

[keishashadow]

Although your children are still very young, be aware that only the max occupancy may be listed on reservation & you will only receive resort cards (early entry, etc.) for them.

You'd be limited as to purchasing the dining plan also for registered guests only.

Good luck.

 

[LisaS]

A 1-bedroom for our total stay would be around 465 points during easter. On the secondary market a pt sells for about $10 or $4650 for the lodging during Easter week. Kind of steep considering it doesn't include tickets or dining plus you'd have that pesky annual fee in there too.

Your post contains a mixture of comments about buying into DVC (i.e., becoming a DVC member) and renting points from a DVC member for an upcoming vacation. So when you say you and your wife are "crunching the numbers" I think you mean buying a contract and not renting points for a vacation?

Assuming you are considering becoming a DVC member (i.e., purchasing a Disney timeshare contract), the initial purchase prices when buying from Disney are:

- $98/point at SSR ($90/point with the current incentive)

- $92/point at BCV, BWV, VWL and OKW

- $87/pt (with the current limited time $5/pt discount) at HHI and VB.

That initial purchase price plus your annual dues gets you an annual allotment of points every year until Jan 2054 (SSR) or Jan 2042 (all the other resorts). If you amortize the initial purchase price over the life of the contract and then add in your annual dues for 2006, your price/point for SSR is about $6/point for 2006 and for the other resorts about $7/pt. (Note: the cost/pt will be lower if you buy on the resale market but let's ignore that for now.) So, as a DVC owner, your cost for those 465 points for your Easter trip would be somewhere between $2790 and $3255.

The $10/point that you quoted is a common rental price for members who find themselves with some extra points that they are not going to use. They offer those points for rent to non-members who want to stay at a DVC resort for an upcoming trip or members who are short of points.

Hope that helps and that I haven't just confused you even more!

 

[DebbieB]

Currently Room Capacity Rules are very 'fluid'

One, as a former FireFighter, I don't for a minute buy the 'nonsense' about firecodes setting the occupancy limits. Why? Because, the DVC rules just changed, and I assure you the National & Florida State Firecodes did not.

-Tony

I don't believe either that it has anything to do with fire codes. DVC would not accept reservations for over the fire code if that was the case, it would be a huge liability risk. A POR room with around 300 square feet and 1 exit will allow 5 (with a trundle bed). It wouldn't make sense that a 1 bedroom with double or triple the space and at least 2 exits would not meet the fire code with 5 people. It's all about the number of sleeping spaces provided, not fire code.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I don't believe either that it has anything to do with fire codes. DVC would not accept reservations for over the fire code if that was the case, it would be a huge liability risk. A POR room with around 300 square feet and 1 exit will allow 5 (with a trundle bed). It wouldn't make sense that a 1 bedroom with double or triple the space and at least 2 exits would not meet the fire code with 5 people. It's all about the number of sleeping spaces provided, not fire code.

Exit egress is not about the space in the room, but the space in the path for exiting in a fire. There are calculations performed based on the length of the corridor, number of exit doors, width of stairwells, etc. that are used to determine the occupancy of the floor or building. If there was a fire in a the BWV, everyone would have to use the same stairwells and corridors to exit the building. The size of the room has nothing to do with the space required to exit.

So imagine a fire on the third or fourth floor at BWV. Everyone has to get out of the building, even though it is fire sprinkled. Everyone is trying to get to the same stairwell, the same corridor to get out at the same time. When you have too many people in the room, someone is going to get trapped in the space.

 

[YoMickey]

Please bare with us. We've only just started looking into this. I have called Disney(which office I do not know) and asked about the accomodations (5 in a 1 bedroom) and nobody can really answer me about having 3 kids (Young or old) in a 1 bedroom unit.

Has it been done? I'm sure it has. Is it guaranteed I'd be able to use a 1 bedroom for a family of 5 for the duration of our DVC membership? Nope, can't answer that. Don't know.

If we buy---Am I then forced to bank points forward/borrow from future year just so we can play within the rules and book a 2 bedroom?? We originally looked at this thinking we'd buy 150-200pts and visit every year. Doesn't look like we can visit often with that amount. Say we plan to go every other year? Is there still value at going every other year?

Any other families with 3 kids out there with experience?

Yo

 

[Sammie]

Our experience has been that unless we were able to purchase enough points to go yearly and stay in a 2 bedroom we did not feel DVC would work for us.

As stated there is no guarantee you will get Resort IDs for 5 in a one bedroom and while they are nice, we want and need beds to enjoy a vacation and not sleep on sofa bed.

Certainly alot of members do go every other year. The other thing is kids grow up quickly and then you will definitely want more space and more beds and more bathrooms. I don't see the points or dues getting less expensive.

As to renting I am not sure I would use that as a comparsion, as that could change at anytime also.

I probably did not ease your confusion at all. I guess my point is, DVC works great for some, not for others.

 

[DebbieB]

Exit egress is not about the space in the room, but the space in the path for exiting in a fire. There are calculations performed based on the length of the corridor, number of exit doors, width of stairwells, etc. that are used to determine the occupancy of the floor or building. If there was a fire in a the BWV, everyone would have to use the same stairwells and corridors to exit the building. The size of the room has nothing to do with the space required to exit.

So imagine a fire on the third or fourth floor at BWV. Everyone has to get out of the building, even though it is fire sprinkled. Everyone is trying to get to the same stairwell, the same corridor to get out at the same time. When you have too many people in the room, someone is going to get trapped in the space.

So you think DVC is intentionally breaking the fire code by accepting 5 in a 1 bedroom?

 

[Dean]

Is there anything in the contract/lease you sign that mentions occupancy?

Yes, it's in the POS which would be referenced on the deed. And if you buy directly from DVC, it's on the product understanding checklist which says you understand and agree to abide by those rules. It's actually specifically stated on that paper you sign, or at least it use to be, haven't seen one in a while.

 

[Doctor P]

Yes, it's in the POS which would be referenced on the deed. And if you buy directly from DVC, it's on the product understanding checklist which says you understand and agree to abide by those rules. It's actually specifically stated on that paper you sign, or at least it use to be, haven't seen one in a while.

Yes, it was still explicitly on the Product Understanding Checklist as of November 2004 (our last add on transaction).

 

[Deb & Bill]

So you think DVC is intentionally breaking the fire code by accepting 5 in a 1 bedroom?

I just wrote to Jim Lewis asking this same question. Hopefully, we will find out.

 

[greenban]

So you think DVC is intentionally breaking the fire code by accepting 5 in a 1 bedroom?

I can't speak for Deb & Bill. But I feel very strongly that the Occuppancy Limits are not soley or mainly based on the AFire code, and thus DVC is not breaking said codes.

IMHO, the occupancy limist were set by Disney beancounters, and never based on firecode maximums.

I think some CM/Guide/Advisor, blamed occupancy limits on fire codes, and that became an urban legend at DVC.

5 in a POR is much more dangerous in terms of egress, especially in smoke conditions, because with the trundle bed pulled out towards the door, the doorway CAN NOT be fully opened, thus severly impeding egress.

10 in a 1 BR OKW villa, with nothing obstructing the SINGLE doorway, would have an easier egress, IMHO, YMMV.

-Tony

 

[greenban]

Exit egress is not about the space in the room, but the space in the path for exiting in a fire. There are calculations performed based on the length of the corridor, number of exit doors, width of stairwells, etc. that are used to determine the occupancy of the floor or building. If there was a fire in a the BWV, everyone would have to use the same stairwells and corridors to exit the building. The size of the room has nothing to do with the space required to exit.

So imagine a fire on the third or fourth floor at BWV. Everyone has to get out of the building, even though it is fire sprinkled. Everyone is trying to get to the same stairwell, the same corridor to get out at the same time. When you have too many people in the room, someone is going to get trapped in the space.

The major failing in the above statement, is it does not consider time of use issues, which are very relevant to Fire Codes, egress and entry issues.

During business hours, the number of employees, guests, visitiors, contractors and those dreaded pool hoppers, all markedly expand the number of bodies occupying the egress routes from any resort. This is what determines occupancy numbers, not how many sleep in a room.

At night, I guarentee you (meaning Midnight on), there are far fewer bodies (of all sorts) who would need to make egresss from cetralized stairwells and doors, than during the busy parts of the day. Further, most nuclear families with younger children will be together sleeping, and will make a coordinated escape together, as oppossed to daylight hours when Bobby is in the Arcade, Suzy is buying Pins, Mom is having her nails done, and Dad is inspecting various fire exits. These people will have a more disorganized, frantic exit, with probable re-entry (against the flow of egress) desperately seeking Susan and Bobby, than 30 in a studio with 3 dogs would (dramatic license, not an actual verified comparison here) during 'quiet' hours.

Bottom line: Occupancy rates were never, ever soley or primarily based on Federal, State or Local limits at the DVC, and were probably set up by the Bean Counters based soley on revenue projections.

-Tony

 

[Daitcher]

Yomickey, as others have stated you are confused on the difference between renting and owning. Also have you ever visited during Easter? I wouldn't recomend it to my worst enemy. Trying to plow your way through the sea of people in the parks with 3 kids isn't my idea of fun. You would need another vacation when you got home. 45 minute+ waits for everything are the norm. If you can only visit WDW during Easter then DVC isn't for you IMO. Rent points firstif you must because I'm telling you there is nothing fun about WDW during peak times. Do you have to travel this time frame? Also if the answer to that is yes and you still buy in, pick your resort very carefully. You, in all likelyhood, will be stuck with your home resort. 7 month bookings are tough during Easter week. You might get something at OKW or SSR but don't count on it. I'd suggest if buying in to go with a smaller resort like BCV, VWL or BWV. The big resorts may have something at 7 months if you wanted a change. Really my best advice is to rent because you don't seem to have a grasp on things yet. Surf here and ask tons of questions. DVC is a major purchase and you owe it to yourself to know the ins and outs to maximize your future DVC trips.

DAVE

 

[Daitcher]

Sorry, in reference to what you posted, it is this simple: 5 people means a 2 bedroom. We do 2 bedrooms sometimes with 3 of us. Even if you sleep one in a pack and play now, that will change soon. It is not fair to other members to just pile in extra people. It stretches the room capacity and puts extra wear and tear on the unit that the owners pay for with increased dues. If you can't aford the buy in for 2 bedroom units look off site for a cheaper option. I'm not trying to be harsh here or be the fire marshall. What if everyone piled in extra people? Pools would be packed and the public areas overflowing. Buy points for a 2 bedroom, please.

DAVE