Stripped Contract Values?

[Minniesgal]

This was merely an attempt to bring some levity to a rather mathematical discussion.

With that said, if you strip all emotion from a decision to purchase a timeshare or not, I would suspect that no timeshares would be sold.

Ironic that you talk about removing emotion when one thinks about what it is that compels most of us to visit and spend so much at Disney...the emotions a visit to Disney creates well before we arrive, and well after we leave.

Or do you find your Disney expenditures to be void of any emotion? If not, why should a purchase of the DISNEY Vacation Club have no emotional component?

No the emotional part is the decision to go to Disney, to continue to go to Disney and the desire to do so through DVC membership. That over you need to take emotion out of the loop and set it aside to make the purchase or you could get swept up in a wave of pixie dust and end up with a month at the Poly bungalows. Yes I'm being flippant.

To me it is like buying a house at auction. Yes you pick a house emotionally, yes you can fall in love with it but if you are buying for the duration of the actual purchase you need to let the head rule the heart to buy for a reasonable price. This is the same.

 

[Drewski77]

No the emotional part is the decision to go to Disney, to continue to go to Disney and the desire to do so through DVC membership. That over you need to take emotion out of the loop and set it aside to make the purchase or you could get swept up in a wave of pixie dust and end up with a month at the Poly bungalows. Yes I'm being flippant.

To me it is like buying a house at auction. Yes you pick a house emotionally, yes you can fall in love with it but if you are buying for the duration of the actual purchase you need to let the head rule the heart to buy for a reasonable price. This is the same.

Yes, and the head says that it doesn't make sense to be impatient and buy a contract that doesn't have points for two years.

Emotion is a big driver of us wanting to be DVC Members, but the head says to be patient and wait for a contract with points and is the location/size we want.

I would think those who post on message boards and are looking to buy resale are using much less emotion than those who buy during a vacation at Disney.

Of course if someone buys into DVC purely on emotion that is their choice, and I certainly wouldn't look to interject my less emotional process on them unless they asked.

 

[Minniesgal]

Yes, and the head says that it doesn't make sense to be impatient and buy a contract that doesn't have points for two years.

Emotion is a big driver of us wanting to be DVC Members, but the head says to be patient and wait for a contract with points and is the location/size we want.

I would think those who post on message boards and are looking to buy resale are using much less emotion than those who buy during a vacation at Disney.

Of course if someone buys into DVC purely on emotion that is their choice, and I certainly wouldn't look to interject my less emotional process on them unless they asked.

You only have to read all the how many days until I get my points posts on here to see how many people get caught up in the emotion of buying resale.

You start out head over heart. I'll make an offer and I know it will take 90 days so I'll stay cool. Then you start to think those 150 points I could use them to do this and i need to book by then and you get in a rush and it snowballs........

If you have time wait for a loaded contract. But be aware that it is very much a sellers market. We sold a stripped contract for full asking the day it listed in February. If you wait for the perfect contract you might never find it.

If you see one the resort and UY and number of points you want but it is a bit stripped it is worth considering going for it especially once you get a feel for how often they come up and how in demand the resort you want is.

We bought VGC resale and I jumped and offered full asking as soon as it was listed. And i didn't care it was stripped I wanted the resort the Uy and the points for future trips not just for year 1. I wouldn't have done that for SSR. Depends what you want.

 

[Dean]

Yes, and the head says that it doesn't make sense to be impatient and buy a contract that doesn't have points for two years.

If that's what one's head is telling them, the head is wrong on that basis for 2 reasons. First, it's not 2 years, more like 1.5 maxand second it should be the math of the situations and not the time involved that drives the decision. IMO based on the current and historical situation, the decision is the same because generally a loaded contract is a better value all else equal. But there are other factors that might drive one to buy a stripped contact that is not necessarily the best deal theoretically possible. These include UY, home resort, how well the contract matches otherwise and the likelihood of finding that best contract or even any reasonable contract. While there may be a significant swing between max stripped and max loaded, we're talking at most around $4K roughly difference on a 200 pt contract but more likely in the $1500-2000 range or less. Plus to be fully loaded or fully stripped are both the extremes. For SSR, OKW, VB or AKV it makes more sense that for others. For something that's difficult to get in general and assuming DVC makes sense for that resort at that price range for the person involved, it might be a no brainer even for a stripped contract that's a little more overall. So I'd say educate oneself so they know what they want including these factors being discussed then once the contract comes along that makes sense (taking these factors here into account) they'll be ready to pull the trigger. While I feel strongly one needs to educate themselves, once you do get to that point, delaying also has a cost if DVC makes sense otherwise.

 

[Drewski77]

If that's what one's head is telling them, the head is wrong on that basis for 2 reasons. First, it's not 2 years, more like 1.5 maxand second it should be the math of the situations and not the time involved that drives the decision. IMO based on the current and historical situation, the decision is the same because generally a loaded contract is a better value all else equal. But there are other factors that might drive one to buy a stripped contact that is not necessarily the best deal theoretically possible. These include UY, home resort, how well the contract matches otherwise and the likelihood of finding that best contract or even any reasonable contract. While there may be a significant swing between max stripped and max loaded, we're talking at most around $4K roughly difference on a 200 pt contract but more likely in the $1500-2000 range or less. Plus to be fully loaded or fully stripped are both the extremes. For SSR, OKW, VB or AKV it makes more sense that for others. For something that's difficult to get in general and assuming DVC makes sense for that resort at that price range for the person involved, it might be a no brainer even for a stripped contract that's a little more overall. So I'd say educate oneself so they know what they want including these factors being discussed then once the contract comes along that makes sense (taking these factors here into account) they'll be ready to pull the trigger. While I feel strongly one needs to educate themselves, once you do get to that point, delaying also has a cost if DVC makes sense otherwise.

I think you make a lot of good points but many that are unnecessary as you are interjecting so much beyond my original post/question.

You seem to be (incorrectly) assuming I haven't been doing my own detailed analysis and research which for my situation comes out with an answer that at a similar price a stripped contract is less valuable than one with points.

I never said a fully loaded contract but by having points to use we could add an extra trip which to us has a large monetary value and helps in the calculus of whether to buy into DVC or not.

If you don't think there is much of a different value in a stripped vs a contract with points great, but I don't think you need to go beyond that, and certainly you don't need to conclude that those who have a different analysis than you are not using their head.

My head tells me I've spent far to much time on this stripped question, it's actually an easy one for us to answer. Thanks everyone for your input, previous poster included.

 

[Savagekids]

Hummm. I'm pondering buying a stripped contract right now BLT. My bigger issue is that BLT is overpriced to start with right now compared to a year ago. But also I'm trying to match an April Use Year that I have not seen many of at BLT in the last 9 months. Not sure if I should jump, knowing that I'm paying too much but get what I know what I want or wait and see what comes available.

 

[jnjhuddle]

I think you make a lot of good points but many that are unnecessary as you are interjecting so much beyond my original post/question.

You seem to be (incorrectly) assuming I haven't been doing my own detailed analysis and research which for my situation comes out with an answer that at a similar price a stripped contract is less valuable than one with points.

I never said a fully loaded contract but by having points to use we could add an extra trip which to us has a large monetary value and helps in the calculus of whether to buy into DVC or not.

If you don't think there is much of a different value in a stripped vs a contract with points great, but I don't think you need to go beyond that, and certainly you don't need to conclude that those who have a different analysis than you are not using their head.

My head tells me I've spent far to much time on this stripped question, it's actually an easy one for us to answer. Thanks everyone for your input, previous poster included.

Wow, well put! I had just read your other posts in this forum and they were great, well thought out questions with great answers from current dvc owners. I like to read other people's OPINIONS just to further broaden my perspective on things, but at the end of the day, I'm going to do what I think is right for me and my family. This whole string kinda rubs me the wrong way which was why I felt the need to put my 2 cents in. I usually just lurk on these boards. Obviously, everyone on these boards is here for the love of all things Disney, it's our happy place! In my every day life, I surround myself with positive, happy people and I take my 4 kids on vacation to Disneyworld/land for the same reasons! I think you will be a great DVC owner and have made the right decision to buy in! It would be nice if everyone here could give you the same encouragement instead of making it sound like a club you shouldn't join!

 

[Dean]

I think you make a lot of good points but many that are unnecessary as you are interjecting so much beyond my original post/question.

You seem to be (incorrectly) assuming I haven't been doing my own detailed analysis and research which for my situation comes out with an answer that at a similar price a stripped contract is less valuable than one with points.

I never said a fully loaded contract but by having points to use we could add an extra trip which to us has a large monetary value and helps in the calculus of whether to buy into DVC or not.

If you don't think there is much of a different value in a stripped vs a contract with points great, but I don't think you need to go beyond that, and certainly you don't need to conclude that those who have a different analysis than you are not using their head.

My head tells me I've spent far to much time on this stripped question, it's actually an easy one for us to answer. Thanks everyone for your input, previous poster included.

I'm sorry you didn't find the information helpful, while beyond your original question, it's in line with your follow up responses. I don't know how much research you've done but your posts suggests you're way beyond most that are investigating a purchase. I simply pointed out, and I see it as factual, that worrying about the initial points themselves is a poor focus. Put another way, skipping a contract that's truly a good value because it doesn't have current points is not reasonable. What's reasonable is looking at the points that are coming, how usable they will be for the buyer and the true overall long term price of the contract. The emotional response is to be negative simply because it's stripped, the calculated response is to compare the true value of each option which is what I was pointing out. You still seem to be under the impression that I feel a stripped contract is a better deal, IMO it's almost never a good choice but it's because the difference in price and fees essentially never makes up for the lost points as I pointed out in my first response on this threat. IF the numbers even out, a stripped contract would be the better choice for many situations because every point would be truly usable.

It would be nice if everyone here could give you the same encouragement instead of making it sound like a club you shouldn't join!

It's not a question of a club, it's about having the best information to make a decision. Certainly you have to take all of that info and put it into your situation. I want DVC to be a blessing to those that buy in and for them to have the best information they can. That will mean some shouldn't buy but that's a decision they'll have to make for themselves.

 

[Drewski77]

Wow, well put! I had just read your other posts in this forum and they were great, well thought out questions with great answers from current dvc owners. I like to read other people's OPINIONS just to further broaden my perspective on things, but at the end of the day, I'm going to do what I think is right for me and my family. This whole string kinda rubs me the wrong way which was why I felt the need to put my 2 cents in. I usually just lurk on these boards. Obviously, everyone on these boards is here for the love of all things Disney, it's our happy place! In my every day life, I surround myself with positive, happy people and I take my 4 kids on vacation to Disneyworld/land for the same reasons! I think you will be a great DVC owner and have made the right decision to buy in! It would be nice if everyone here could give you the same encouragement instead of making it sound like a club you shouldn't join!

Thanks for the reply and I definitely appreciate your positive feedback. Enjoy your continued trips to Disney, I am sure you are making many memories that will trump any astute calculation of Use Year, Stripped VS Loaded, Usable Points etc.

Thanks again!

 

[Drewski77]

I simply pointed out, and I see it as factual, that worrying about the initial points themselves is a poor focus. Put another way, skipping a contract that's truly a good value because it doesn't have current points is not reasonable. What's reasonable is looking at the points that are coming, how usable they will be for the buyer and the true overall long term price of the contract. The emotional response is to be negative simply because it's stripped, the calculated response is to compare the true value of each option which is what I was pointing out.

Last one on this for me. To be clear I am using many different variables when looking at a potential contract to purchase, and ONE of those variables is whether or not a contract is stripped or has points available, or points coming next year. I am not in a hurry to buy into DVC, or add on to a particular UY, so I can wait until I find a contract that best covers the many variables we most value.

You seem to have come up with a certain way of evaluating DVC contracts that works for YOU, which is great. However, while some of your points can be universally applied to everyone, others are more specific to what YOU value. At any rate, I would only caution you to not treat your analysis of how to purchase a DVC contract as Gospel as many will value certain things differently than you, and that is neither right nor wrong...just different.

 

[Dean]

Last one on this for me. To be clear I am using many different variables when looking at a potential contract to purchase, and ONE of those variables is whether or not a contract is stripped or has points available, or points coming next year. I am not in a hurry to buy into DVC, or add on to a particular UY, so I can wait until I find a contract that best covers the many variables we most value.

You seem to have come up with a certain way of evaluating DVC contracts that works for YOU, which is great. However, while some of your points can be universally applied to everyone, others are more specific to what YOU value. At any rate, I would only caution you to not treat your analysis of how to purchase a DVC contract as Gospel as many will value certain things differently than you, and that is neither right nor wrong...just different.

I'd like to know what you feel I posted that was more opinion. Basically what I posted was more technical and factual.

 

[Drewski77]

I'd like to know what you feel I posted that was more opinion. Basically what I posted was more technical and factual.

Let me pick one, how about you saying that it takes 6 months of active investigation to make the buying decision.

What is the technical or factual equation you used (not your own made up one) to make this "factual" conclusion?

I would argue that it is your opinion, maybe worthwhile and accurate, but an opinion nonetheless.

 

[Dean]

Let me pick one, how about you saying that it takes 6 months of active investigation to make the buying decision.

What is the technical or factual equation you used (not your own made up one) to make this "factual" conclusion?

I would argue that it is your opinion, maybe worthwhile and accurate, but an opinion nonetheless.

Correct, that one is my opinion based on over 20 yrs of timeshares experience and almost as much time dealing with DVC online (before actual internet). And it was only posted in response to jnjhuddle's post bringing up the subject simply acknowledging that I was one of the ones suggesting that as you can see. Somewhat arbitrary but well founded based on the idea that it takes time to find and assimilate information and that it also takes time to get over the initial emotional reaction that many have. If that's what you can come up with as opinion for me in this thread I'm good.

 

[Drewski77]

One needs to take a long term view and have patience where a timeshare is involved. You've got to investigate enough to get past this type of emotional approach to make good decisions.

This is your post in which you strayed from the original question and began to interject your opinions.

You misinterpreted a comment I made to another poster and used it to directly respond to me in order to educate me on getting past my (your opinion) emotional approach.

You have a ton of useful DVC knowledge, no doubt. However, it is best to share that knowledge to the applicable topics. My original post and question was about the value of a stripped contract and not about the emotions, or entire investigative process of DVC.

With all that said no big deal, and you do bring a lot of DVC knowledge to the table which brings value to the discussions.

 

[lovin'fl]

All I know is I just sold a stripped small-ish contract ...for $14/point MORE than I bought it for just 2 years ago. The day I sent in the paperwork to list it I was notified of an offer and and we reached an agreement that day...and my listing never even made it to the brokers website. It is a sellers market right now. The buyer did negotiate a few dollars per point off what I wanted to list at AND we are paying a credit for 2016 annual dues since we used those points.

 

[Drewski77]

All I know is I just sold a stripped small-ish contract ...for $14/point MORE than I bought it for just 2 years ago. The day I sent in the paperwork to list it I was notified of an offer and and we reached an agreement that day...and my listing never even made it to the brokers website. It is a sellers market right now. The buyer did negotiate a few dollars per point off what I wanted to list at AND we are paying a credit for 2016 annual dues since we used those points.

You definitely bring up a good point. Ultimately it doesn't matter what I value a stripped contract at, or others, the market is saying that at least for small-ish contracts a stripped one has almost the same value (monetary) as one with points.

I do see the stripped contracts at 160 plus points staying listed for longer, and that is the range I'm looking to buy so I'll be holding off till I find a non-stripped contract for the where we want our home resort to be.

Congrats on your sale, that worked out fantastic for you!

 

[Dean]

This is your post in which you strayed from the original question and began to interject your opinions.

You misinterpreted a comment I made to another poster and used it to directly respond to me in order to educate me on getting past my (your opinion) emotional approach.

You have a ton of useful DVC knowledge, no doubt. However, it is best to share that knowledge to the applicable topics. My original post and question was about the value of a stripped contract and not about the emotions, or entire investigative process of DVC.

With all that said no big deal, and you do bring a lot of DVC knowledge to the table which brings value to the discussions.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I see that issue central to the question of stripped vs non stripped contracts. Hopefully someone learned something. I think two of the issues some miss is that the OP sets the topic but doesn't own the thread and that posts are often worded to the principle and those reading, not just the specifics of the poster in question.

 

[Tunseeker1]

All I know is I just sold a stripped small-ish contract ...for $14/point MORE than I bought it for just 2 years ago. The day I sent in the paperwork to list it I was notified of an offer and and we reached an agreement that day...and my listing never even made it to the brokers website. It is a sellers market right now. The buyer did negotiate a few dollars per point off what I wanted to list at AND we are paying a credit for 2016 annual dues since we used those points.

If you don't mind how did you calculate the credit for dues? Did you just agree on using this years amount or did you guess at an increase for next year.

 

[lovin'fl]

If you don't mind how did you calculate the credit for dues? Did you just agree on using this years amount or did you guess at an increase for next year.

Buyers asked for this year's amount.

 

[Dean]

Buyers asked for this year's amount.

This is the standard method in this situation, worrying about this years price vs the yearly increase is very small even on a large points purchase. We're talking $30-40 difference on 200 points. The problem is that the brokers perpetuate the myth that the proper dues settlement is "you get the dues you pay the fees". That means one essentially always overpays when they buy through such a broker in terms of dues. One negotiate it or one can figure it in to the overall price just like you would the dues structure for that contract or the extra closing costs (Disney only started charging closing at all a few yrs ago).