Stop being silly over PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN

[MJMcBride]

Remember, Walt said "Grow" not "be redone". The Disney Corporate People need to Listen to that. One of my niece's favorites rides when she was little was Mr. Toad. She had no Idea who Mr.Toad was but she kept going on it hoping that maybe they wouldn't end up in "h e double twosticks" at the end. Now we have Winnie the Pooh which I won't ride on principle.

But I am looking forward to the update of POTC. Maybe they'll change the PC scenes back to their original form. They just don't have the same impact as the original.

Sometimes grow=redone. I think even Mr. Disney would agree with that. I agree with you. I'm not going to dismiss upgrades/additions without seeing them. It could enhance the experience or it could detract from it or neither. We'll see. And having loved the first movie I'm looking forward to the next movies.

As for Mr. Toad, the dumped that ride because not enough people went on it or enjoyed. If it was popular, they would not have gotten rid of it.

 

[YoHo]

Bull crap. They didn't dump Mr. Toad because it wasn't popular. They dumped Mr. Toad, because they saw how many people they could push through a Pooh shop with the Pooh ride. Not so many Toad snow globes sold are there? but Tigger plush.....
It was a money grab pure and simple. If it were really about creating a better ride, we'd have gotten the Tokyo version.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

I agree with the person who said let them use their resources to expand. WDW has plenty of room for expansion. DCA has plenty of room for improvement. I think something that isn't being discussed is the need for more new and original attractions. EE is a nice start but the parks arent doing much to WOW! the guests. Isn't EE the first major addition to a park since DCA opened in California?

The originality is starting to be replaced by duplicates of the rides or unnecessary upgrades. Was the Stitch ride a great replacement for AE? Soarin' is a remake too. At least they could have filmed a new movie. Imagination at Epcot, Buzz at DL, ToT at DCA, etc. Disneyland hasn't had a truly unique new attraction added in over ten years (Indiana Jones).

I believe the guests are beginning to settle for and accept cheap updates like what is being done to Pirates, or what was done to WDW's Tiki Room. They are settling in the same way that they do when they buy those lame DVD sequels, or make a remake of The Shaggy Dog the #2 family movie in the country. Let's face it. Disney's most creative outlet in this decade is it's Marketing department. Those people have job security. I don't think they will ever suffer the fate of the animation department.

ITA. what's the last successful animated movie we made, Lilo and Stitch? well, let's Lilo and Stitch the hell out of the parks. we walked past a 50 foot blow-up of lady and the tramp on the way to the ferry monday. surprisingly, it was playing on every flat-screen monitor in the gift shops.

 

[YoHo]

That's a step up, DCA still has a 50 foot tall chicken little. Aside from the obvious contradiction, it gives me the heebie jeebies.

 

[DisInsider]

I thing the Fantasyland remodel in 1983 helped boost the popularity and appeal of Mr. Toad at Disneyland. One would think that with the success of the Fantasyland remodel, they would have done something similar at WDW. Even today, some 23 years later, the Disneyland Fantasyland blows away that of the MK. Mr. Toad packs them in, of course Pan is huge, Alice, Tea Party, and Snow White are all winners. Pinocchio might not be as popular, but all of the attractions in that courtyard area are unique and memorable.

WDW needs to update it's Fantasyland. I know they rehab'd IASW, but more improvements would be very nice. They did such a great job on Tomorrowland, (where Disneyland failed), a Fantasyland rehab would be nice.
But I can't see Disney closing down that entire area for 18 to 24 months like they did back in 1982.

 

[MJMcBride]

Bull crap. They didn't dump Mr. Toad because it wasn't popular. They dumped Mr. Toad, because they saw how many people they could push through a Pooh shop with the Pooh ride. Not so many Toad snow globes sold are there? but Tigger plush.....
It was a money grab pure and simple. If it were really about creating a better ride, we'd have gotten the Tokyo version.

If Mr. Toad's was all that popular they would not have dumped that ride, they would've picked something else. Mr. Toad's has a cult following, which is fine. But unfortunately a cult following often is not enough. The simple fact of the matter is more people didn't care about the ride then did. Probably much more or else it would be here today and Snow White's Scary Adventures would be gone. The line for Mr. Toad's was never like the line for Peter Pan or even Pooh now.

 

[YoHo]

So, if Mr. Toad's was so unpopular, then why didn't Disneyland dump it too?

You're using flawed logic. Disney chose that ride, because it sold the fewest plush/DVDs/Merchandise. The popularity of the ride was not looked at, the popularity of the merchandise was. And Mr Toad's had two tracks, so of frickin course it never had as bad a line as Pan or any others. They could load more people then the others could.

 

[Luv2CtheMouse]

Silly
1 archaic : HELPLESS, WEAK
2 a : RUSTIC, PLAIN b obsolete : lowly in station : HUMBLE
3 a : weak in intellect : FOOLISH b : exhibiting or indicative of a lack of common sense or sound judgment <a very silly mistake> c : TRIFLING, FRIVOLOUS
4 : being stunned or dazed <scared silly> <knocked me silly>

 

[Luv2CtheMouse]

I've just read all five pages of this thread just to make sure what I'm about to say wasn't already stated. It has been alluded to though. My problem with changing attractions such as the Tiki Birds and POC is that they were/are original Disney attractions that Walt himself was involved with. With all the resources available to Disney, why do they need to change the original attractions that so many cherish? This is especially true in WDW where they have plenty of land to expand. I also agree that with all of the remakes and "sequels", Disney is no longer the creative leader they once were.

Well said!!

 

[MJMcBride]

So, if Mr. Toad's was so unpopular, then why didn't Disneyland dump it too?

You're using flawed logic. Disney chose that ride, because it sold the fewest plush/DVDs/Merchandise. The popularity of the ride was not looked at, the popularity of the merchandise was. And Mr Toad's had two tracks, so of frickin course it never had as bad a line as Pan or any others. They could load more people then the others could.

It sold the fewest plush toys and merchandise because it wasn't that popular. Mr. Toad's was never that popular of a ride. It just wasn't. Do you think people cared as much for that ride as say POTC, HM, Jungle Cruise, the "mountains", etc. Of course not. I think Peter Pan was always more popular.

Of course, the popularity of the ride was "looked at." I'm sure it wasn't the only thing looked at but it played a role. I suspect merchandising was very influential, as well.

By the way, is it painful to be that wrong all the time?

 

[wasabi girl]

I think the real reason they are redoing POTC...is......(drum roll please)....so that I HAVE to go back soon, yet another vacation at WDW (sigh)...the things that we are forced to do...but it's okay, chin up, stiff upper lip and all that, I'll be a big girl and do my duty...and go back to WDW.

 

[YoHo]

What proof do you have that Mr. Toad was not a popular ride?

 

[MJMcBride]

What proof do you have that Mr. Toad was not a popular ride?

Despite what you say, I don't believe they would have gotten ride of a ride that was all that popular. Thats not to say they weren't people that loved it. Just not that many. It had a cult following.

What proof do you have that it was popular?

 

[dbm20th]

Often that was the only ride I would go on in Fantasyland. Because it had no lines

 

[YoHo]

Despite what you say, I don't believe they would have gotten ride of a ride that was all that popular. Thats not to say they weren't people that loved it. Just not that many. It had a cult following.

What proof do you have that it was popular?

The long lines it still has a Disneyland, the internet fan sites, the uproar.

It certainly wasn't the MOST popular ride in fantasyland, but it was popular. And again, it had two tracks and could load a lot more people then other dark rides.

So, you're logic is, that Mr. Toad must not be popular, because Disney would never close a popular ride.


Nice assumptions there.

 

[YoHo]

Or, we could do some actual research (or have someone else help us with it) and produce the following

Orlando Sentinal Wednesday, October 22, 1997

http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/toad/os/os971022.html

Although the ride is popular and almost always has long lines, some parents have complained that it is too scary for small children, and some visitors have complained that it is outdated and technologically inferior to other Disney rides.

And then their is this from WDW spokesman Mark Jaronski dated November 19-25, 1997.
http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/toad/cl/cl971119.html

Jaronski says the wild ride is one of the most popular attractions. "But there's good and bad for Mr. Toad," he says. "The good thing is folks like it. On the other hand, we're constantly looking for ways to freshen up a park that is 25 years old."

Thankyou drive through please.

 

[MJMcBride]

If a ride is that popular, why would they get rid of it? That's not logical.

 

[YoHo]

Because they needed a place to sell more pooh merchandise, a place that would encourage the sale of more pooh merchandise. Money money money.

It's logical, from a certain point of view. It's also evil.


The best part about those two article I linked though are the comments about outdated technology and looking to freshen up the park. So they replaced Toad which had tons of innovative darkride effects with Pooh the retard edition instead of the incredible version that Tokyo has.

 

[Another Voice]

If a ride is that popular, why would they get rid of it? That's not logical.

You ask this of a company that just spent $50 million to remake The Shaggy Dog?

You have a lot to learn about how Disney operates.

'Mr. Toad' was closed down because, at the time, the Pooh line was second only to the Fab Five in terms of merchandise sales. Constructing a new building for a new ride was both "cost prohibative" according to Disney's sharp pencils, and there is a strict edict to keep operating costs level by only swapping out rides (thereby keeping the number of ride operators the same overall). But what finally doomed 'Toad' was that it was the only Fantansyland location (aside from 'Small World') with enough room for both a ride and a significant merchandise location.

Sales per square foot calculations killed 'Toad', not lack of riders.

 

[MJMcBride]

You ask this of a company that just spent $50 million to remake The Shaggy Dog?

You have a lot to learn about how Disney operates.

'Mr. Toad' was closed down because, at the time, the Pooh line was second only to the Fab Five in terms of merchandise sales. Constructing a new building for a new ride was both "cost prohibative" according to Disney's sharp pencils, and there is a strict edict to keep operating costs level by only swapping out rides (thereby keeping the number of ride operators the same overall). But what finally doomed 'Toad' was that it was the only Fantansyland location (aside from 'Small World') with enough room for both a ride and a significant merchandise location.

Sales per square foot calculations killed 'Toad', not lack of riders.

But do you know if there was a lack of riders?

Do we know if Pooh has more riders, less riders, the same?

And I know enough about how Disney operates, thank you. Like every other corporation, the bottom line is dollars. If Mr. Toad was worth it, they would've kept it. They obviously would not have dumped Toad if he wasn't "worth" it. Pooh is more popular than Toad, everyone knows that. Always was, always will be.