Stem cell research...

[Disneyland1084]

I know this topic has already been discussed, but it wasn't until recently that I started coming to the community board....To all the people who are against stem cell research, and rightfully so, do you think if you became a parapelegic or stricken with some deadly disease you would feel different about it? I just can't answer that question myself. If people ask me whether or not I believe in it I can't come up with an answer because I'm not sure how I would feel if someday I became a parapelegic, etc...I do know I would want my life the way it used to be, but I would have a hard time knowing it would be at the cost of someone else's. I hope I'm never in that situation, but nobody knows the future. What are your thoughts?

 

[bicker]

It really comes down to what you choose to believe -- what you decide to accept as truth -- at least as it pertains to yourself. I think that's got to be respected reguardless. Where I believe the controversy sits is with regard to how your own beliefs should or should not pertain to others. The imposition of the beliefs of any person or group on any significant segment of society is immoral, IMHO, even imnposition of the beliefs of the majority on any significant minority. That's really where our society needs work, since there is so much tendancy towards applying tyranny of the majority these days.

 

[Laura]

Here's some good news for those on both sides of the debate. Hopefully this new technique will pan out.
http://today.reuters.com/news/artic..._N23403167_RTRUKOC_0_US-SCIENCE-STEMCELLS.xml

Of course, there will still be those who are against such research, but I think the major objection to embryonic stem cell research would be eliminated if this works.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Disneyland, I AM a paraplegic and have been since 1984. I don't support stem cell research. How's that from a straight-from-the-source opinion??

 

[Charade]

tyranny of the majority?

Is that just how elections work? The majority wins and gets to pretty much decide how things will be run?

Lets turn this around and say the majority believes that people who mistreat animals shouldn't do any jail time, just a small fine and be on their way. I believe differently. They get their way by the passing of such a law. Is that the tyranny of the majority in action there?

 

[bicker]

Of course, there will still be those who are against such research, but I think the major objection to embryonic stem cell research would be eliminated if this works.

I doubt it. People object to this research on superstitious grounds, despite their efforts to case it, until now, in a more defensible manner. I suspect that those who have been against stem cell research will find other excuses for their objection now. I heard one yesterday: This procedure shares cells which are already being extracted as part of normal fertility procedures, where they take one cell from embryos to test for inherited genetic diseases such as cystic fibrosis. They do this today, without any objection. Now, I bet, it will become objectionable, because if the cell removed for the testing divides before the testing is done, the second cell would get used for developing stem cell lines.

Sorry, I have to say it: Idiocy.

 

[bicker]

tyranny of the majority? Is that just how elections work? The majority wins and gets to pretty much decide how things will be run?

No. In our system, the majority has an obligation to respect the beliefs of significant minorities. It has worked very well for a half-century and beyond, however has been challenged by reactionaries in recent years.

Lets turn this around ...

Respect for minorities cannot be "turned around". The principle is that the minority is respected by allowing it to live in accordance with its beliefs, i.e., that the majority doesn't force the minority to live in accordance with the majority's beliefs.

 

[noodleknitter]

Here's some good news for those on both sides of the debate. Hopefully this new technique will pan out.
http://today.reuters.com/news/artic..._N23403167_RTRUKOC_0_US-SCIENCE-STEMCELLS.xml

Of course, there will still be those who are against such research, but I think the major objection to embryonic stem cell research would be eliminated if this works.

That would be great! I am not adamently against stem-cell research, but believe it has the potential for a plethora of unethical abuses. Ethics committees aren't always so ethical!

 

[Charade]

No. In our system, the majority has an obligation to respect the beliefs of significant minorities. It has worked very well for a half-century and beyond, however has been challenged by reactionaries in recent years.

Respect for minorities cannot be "turned around". The principle is that the minority is respected by allowing it to live in accordance with its beliefs, i.e., that the majority doesn't force the minority to live in accordance with the majority's beliefs.

Sounds like you're describing Anarchy.

If the "issue" of debate is put to the people for a direct vote, such as in a referendum, and the "issue" is not decided in favor of the minority's views, how do you suggest we let the minority live in accordance to their beliefs?

 

[bicker]

No. It's not anarchy at all. Anarchy is where everyone is a individually allowed to do whatever they want, with no common set of principles applied whatsoever. The point is that the common set of principles in our society are not to be the reflection of a specific religious perspective, but rather are to be a consensus view of "all" Americans. Consensus means laws are made where most everyone agrees that something is wrong.

One of the Supreme Court's responsibilities is to ensure that the majority doesn't vote to infringe on the rights of minorities.

 

[Charade]

No. It's not anarchy at all. Anarchy is where everyone is a individually allowed to do whatever they want, with no common set of principles applied whatsoever.

One of the Supreme Court's responsibilities is to ensure that the majority doesn't vote to infringe on the rights of minorities.

I don't know, it looked like you were saying that the minority's beliefs should not be dictated by the majority. Maybe not the exact definition of Anarchy since we're talking about groups of people, not individuals.

Ok then can you answer my question?

 

[bicker]

I believe I have. If you didn't understand that to be the case, then perhaps you simply disagree with me so vigorously that you cannot see that what I wrote actually did answer your question. That's okay. I'm all for folks living in accordance with their own beliefs, and see no reason why I must force you to change your beliefs to match mine. I expect the same consideration. And that's really the whole point of this side discussion.

Why don't we focus on the stem cell research issue in this thread, and you can create another thread for more detailed discussion of anarchy? Thanks!

 

[Laura]

I doubt it. People object to this research on superstitious grounds, despite their efforts to case it, until now, in a more defensible manner. I suspect that those who have been against stem cell research will find other excuses for their objection now. I heard one yesterday: This procedure shares cells which are already being extracted as part of normal fertility procedures, where they take one cell from embryos to test for inherited genetic diseases such as cystic fibrosis. They do this today, without any objection. Now, I bet, it will become objectionable, because if the cell removed for the testing divides before the testing is done, the second cell would get used for developing stem cell lines.

Sorry, I have to say it: Idiocy.

It is idiocy. I hope it won't come to that in a vote as regards to a vote in Congress. But I'm still going to be optimistic about this breakthrough.

I'm all for embryonic stem cell research, even if it means destroying the embryos that would be destroyed by fertility clinics anyway. My DH supports the research as well, because he wants to live life without type 1 diabetes.

 

[Disneyland1084]

Disneyland, I AM a paraplegic and have been since 1984. I don't support stem cell research. How's that from a straight-from-the-source opinion??

I don't know what to say to you, sorry. I use to know someone who became a parapelegic 4 years ago after a tragic accident. It changed my view point on life and just made me think more about stem cell research. I use to often wonder if Christopher Reeve had never gotten in that horse back riding accident if he would of been so for stem cell research.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

I don't know what to say to you, sorry. I use to know someone who became a parapelegic 4 years ago after a tragic accident. It changed my view point on life and just made me think more about stem cell research. I use to often wonder if Christopher Reeve had never gotten in that horse back riding accident if he would of been so for stem cell research.

Please don't be sorry. My life rocks and I have no complaints

I don't think a lot of people would jump on a cure/research bandwagon unless it affected them directly. Then you have oddballs like me who say the opposite

 

[bicker]

I don't think a lot of people would jump on a cure/research bandwagon unless it affected them directly.

That's probably as sad a statement as anything. People already think way too much about themselves and way too little about others, in this country.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

That's probably as sad a statement as anything. People already think way too much about themselves and way too little about others, in this country.

I agree. It is sad. Actually, it's pathetisad. (<--- a word I stole from a TV show)

 

[noodleknitter]

That's probably as sad a statement as anything. People already think way too much about themselves and way too little about others, in this country.

I agree with this to a certain extent. I also think, however, that there are a million band wagons out there. And it is impossible to be involved with each, no matter how important the cause. There are 100's of deadly diseases, starving children, elderly and animals, abuse of all sorts, special olympics, etc. We tend to support the most those which touch our lives in some way.

So, while i think the world does often lives in apathy and selfishness I believe that delegating time, energy and resourses is a sad part of life.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Noodle, you are right. But there are many folks who simply don't take a stand for anything, no cause at all. I'm not saying one has to picket and write letters to Congrasspeople 5 times a day, but simply put, to quote Miss Poppins, some folks just can't see past the end of their nose.

 

[noodleknitter]

Noodle, you are right. But there are many folks who simply don't take a stand for anything, no cause at all. I'm not saying one has to picket and write letters to Congrasspeople 5 times a day, but simply put, to quote Miss Poppins, some folks just can't see past the end of their nose.

I totally agree...and love your quote! It is a great reminder!