Star Wars Tales Of The Arcolyte

[BrianL]

Tonight's episode was good, but...

It does that thing that a lot of streaming shows do where one episode is all different, in this case a flashback, and I don't generally like that. I would prefer that be interspersed with the regular story. This episode basically gave us no forward motion. It's fine when binging, but when the show is week-to-week it kills the momentum. So many streaming hows treat themselves as really long movies - I think that's a mistake.

On to the episode itself, yeah, I was getting Nightsister vibes, and they pretty well confirmed it. I still think something more went on, but Mae is a little psycho, eh? And she's following the teachings - I'm not really sure the witches were up to anything good at all. Osha has the right attitued, though she is only 8 years old. Still, being insular is typically a bad thing. Her desire to explore and to be different from her sister is a good instinct.

 

[Skywalker3]

I liked that a whole lot more than expected. Still a lot if points off for bad acting again for Osha and Mae, younger versions, some goofy dialogue, but very interesting characters with the witches, and the 4 Jedi. Appreciate that the Jedi were not at all welcome or wanted there. I like the one that says ‘let’s just kill them. The Republic won’t miss 4, ‘ ha ha, and they are just so self righteous. Sol was really good in this episode and Indara. There’s got to be more to their story though, for them to keep feeling all that guilt. Hope we’ll get more explanation.
I often agree that bottle episodes like this can sometimes break the flow of a series, Walking Dead used to do that all the time, but I liked how this one was done.

 

[Kit Jackson]

I often agree that bottle episodes like this can sometimes break the flow of a series, Walking Dead used to do that all the time, but I liked how this one was done.

This is not a bottle episode. This is close to the opposite of a bottle episode. A bottle episode is one that uses only existing locations/standing sets, regular cast members (people in the opening credits) and as few extras/non-regular characters as possible.

I do agree with you about breaking up the flow of the series. After last week, I was really excited to see more of the wookiee jedi in exile, hiding, or whatever it is he is doing, but instead we got this flashback episode.

The flashback episode does complicate the narrative, but Mae seems is a little too old to be thinking, if the Jedi hadn't come, none of the destruction would have happened. The fire and all the damage from it seems like 100% her responsibility.

 

[Suger Mag]

To be fair... I always thought the Jedi taking small children away from their families and not allowing them to see them ever again was wicked creepy. I am glad they are exploring this theme. And that Jedi are the only ones allowed by Republic law to 'train children'. I liked how Mother Anisaya was approaching it as free will/choice. I have always thought it was wrong that the Jedi have a stranglehold on the force use.

I have a feeling that Mae lit the proverbial spark that stated a fight that led to the Jedi killing all the witches

 

[BrianL]

To be fair... I always thought the Jedi taking small children away from their families and not allowing them to see them ever again was wicked creepy. I am glad they are exploring this theme. And that Jedi are the only ones allowed by Republic law to 'train children'. I liked how Mother Anisaya was approaching it as free will/choice. I have always thought it was wrong that the Jedi have a stranglehold on the force use.

I have a feeling that Mae lit the proverbial spark that stated a fight that led to the Jedi killing all the witches

More definitely happened, though it does seem that Mae may be the impetus. Honestly, Mae seems to be more in line with the thachings of th coven, and at least Mother Anisaya is trying to let Osha make a choice. I think Osha is making the right choice, but I doubt anyone else there does.

I think previously, it was considered quite the honor to send a child off with the Jedi. I don't think they ever just "took" them, but that it was strongly suggested that they allow the child to be trained and most people generally agreed that it was for the best.

 

[Suger Mag]

More definitely happened, though it does seem that Mae may be the impetus. Honestly, Mae seems to be more in line with the thachings of th coven, and at least Mother Anisaya is trying to let Osha make a choice. I think Osha is making the right choice, but I doubt anyone else there does.

I think previously, it was considered quite the honor to send a child off with the Jedi. I don't think they ever just "took" them, but that it was strongly suggested that they allow the child to be trained and most people generally agreed that it was for the best.

I dont think it is a choice. Perhaps many see it as an honor, but what if they DONT want to go? What happens then? The witches said they had been persecuted and were trying to live in secret. I am getting the feeling it is not so friendly between Jedi and non Jedi force users.... and what happens if they choose to say no. Indara said they (the witches) were training the children which was against the Republic rules. How do you keep a person from using the force? Join the Jedi or die?

In this case the witches were living isolated... they did not seek out the Jedi, they wanted to live in peace without the interference... but yet... the Jedi were looking for them.

 

[nancipants]

To be fair... I always thought the Jedi taking small children away from their families and not allowing them to see them ever again was wicked creepy.

I have always disliked this as well, even more after becoming a parent after many years of infertility. The story never explores how Jedi feel about being taken from their families. Even if they don't remember their families, I would imagine it has to cause some sort of emotional reaction. But then again, Jedi are always taught to suppress their emotions.

I was/am a big fan of the Legends timeline and loved that Luke's Order allowed Jedi to have families and he started by training adults. I would have hoped that in the canon timeline, he would have allowed Jedi to still see their families, but we sadly don't know if that's the case because they haven't explored that part of the timeline.

 

[BrianL]

I dont think it is a choice. Perhaps many see it as an honor, but what if they DONT want to go? What happens then? The witches said they had been persecuted and were trying to live in secret. I am getting the feeling it is not so friendly between Jedi and non Jedi force users.... and what happens if they choose to say no. Indara said they (the witches) were training the children which was against the Republic rules. How do you keep a person from using the force? Join the Jedi or die?

In this case the witches were living isolated... they did not seek out the Jedi, they wanted to live in peace without the interference... but yet... the Jedi were looking for them.

I do not think they were forced though, it's just that if they didn't go, which was likely a rarity, they were not allowed to be trained so that basically their ability with the Force would wane. Of course, some Force users might figure it out on their own. I do not belive it has even been implied that the Jedi take children by force.

They were fine with the witches using their magic and all - which is actually the Force too - but they were not allowed to train children into their ways. That may or may not be a fair rule, but that was the concern. I do not believe that they intended to take the children at any cost, but rather to simply stop their training. If that could be agreed to, then there was no issue. Of course, teh coven didn't want to do that - the kids were their legacy. One could also argue that they were isolated and not botehring anybody, but could they guarantee that Mae wouldn't eventually strike out at others - she's a little psycho, you know. Therein lies the potential danger.

 

[Suger Mag]

I do not think they were forced though, it's just that if they didn't go, which was likely a rarity, they were not allowed to be trained so that basically their ability with the Force would wane. Of course, some Force users might figure it out on their own. I do not belive it has even been implied that the Jedi take children by force.

They were fine with the witches using their magic and all - which is actually the Force too - but they were not allowed to train children into their ways. That may or may not be a fair rule, but that was the concern. I do not believe that they intended to take the children at any cost, but rather to simply stop their training. If that could be agreed to, then there was no issue. Of course, teh coven didn't want to do that - the kids were their legacy. One could also argue that they were isolated and not botehring anybody, but could they guarantee that Mae wouldn't eventually strike out at others - she's a little psycho, you know. Therein lies the potential danger.

I did not get the impression they were fine with the witches using their power. The witches certainly had some reason to be fearful. And if they didn't agree to stop, then what?

Spoiler

WHy are they all dead now? Killing a bunch of fellow force users would be a reason why Torbin took the meditation vow and elected suicide. It was not Mae killing them.

It will be interesting to see where this goes in the show.

 

[BrianL]

I did not get the impression they were fine with the witches using their power. The witches certainly had some reason to be fearful. And if they didn't agree to stop, then what? WHy are they all dead now? Killing a bunch of fellow force users would be a reason why Torbin took the meditation vow and elected suicide. It was not Mae killing them. It will be interesting to see where this goes in the show.

They needed to agree to stop training the children, not stop using their own power (though I do think the line would have been drawn at creating life, and that may be what happened too). No, I don't think that the fire that Mae started killed them all, but we don't yet know what set things off. I do not believe the Jedi always intended to do that just becuase they were Force users.

 

[Suger Mag]

Where do we stand at spoilers... I will try to be better about using them. I always figure if it is a read these threads at your own risk

 

[BrianL]

Where do we stand at spoilers... I will try to be better about using them. I always figure if it is a read these threads at your own risk

I don't think it's a huge deal. Most of the folks that come in this section are the ones who were refreshing their D+ last night until Ep 3 showed up! Still, I like to be a little careful with major stuff.

 

[Obi-J Kenobi]

I do not think they were forced though, it's just that if they didn't go, which was likely a rarity, they were not allowed to be trained so that basically their ability with the Force would wane.

Correct.

The storyline about a child being found by a jedi, the child then being tested or checked, leave the family (i.e. taken to the jedi order), and trained as a jedi has been examined and demonstrated in multiple scenes in different shows/books/comics.

The Clone Wars examined the "abduction" of Ahsoka by Master Koon. Episode 1 examined this with Anakin, Shmi and Master Jinn. Master Kenobi explains his memories of leaving his family to Leia in the Kenobi series. Master Kenobi, specifically, discussed the transition about leaving his biological family and finding a new family (i.e. the Jedi). SW at its roots is about family, and quite frankly, a very dysfunctional family.

 

[Kit Jackson]

Where do we stand at spoilers... I will try to be better about using them. I always figure if it is a read these threads at your own risk

If it has happened in an episode that aired, it's fair game. If it is speculation based on something that happened in the episode, than I do not think it requires a spoiler tag.

 

[nancipants]

Okay, I watched the latest episode at lunch and enjoyed it. It's still not my favorite show and I'm still not super drawn into it, but the mystery enough to keep watching. While I liked the flashback, I didn't particularly like how it completely dragged you out of the present-day narrative; it felt like it slammed the breaks on the story. Interspersed flashbacks would have been more interesting, I think. But I can understand why they would want to keep all these scenes to one episode, because I have a feeling this won't be the only flashback episode we get, and the next one will be from a different point of view. There is definitely more that happened on Brendok! Indara is very sus, as the kids say!

 

[tinkerhon]

I hope this is not seen as a spoiler.. liking the series as a whole so far, but am I the only one that thought that the bickering and cat fighting between the sisters was overkill in Ep. 3? The little slaps every second seemed a little much. Other than that, enjoyed it.

 

[Obi-J Kenobi]

I hope this is not seen as a spoiler.. liking the series as a whole so far, but am I the only one that thought that the bickering and cat fighting between the sisters was overkill in Ep. 3? The little slaps every second seemed a little much. Other than that, enjoyed it.

No. You are not wrong.

Frankly, the dialogue is poorly written and in some cases poorly acted. There is too much exposition and what I would refer to as surface level conversation that is far too matter of fact. It's not good, compelling television (regardless of whether it's SW).

You are too lenient on the girls.
You are too hard on the girls.
I don't wanna be a witch.
The jedi are good.
The jedi are bad. . . .Etc. Etc.

This type of dialogue and writing and acting makes it a very labored effort to watch. And, although I don't run a TV studio or am a show-runner, I cannot believe in any shape or manner that the studio or show runner wants to make it a labor or a chore to care to watch or follow.

It ain't no Shogun when it comes to quality, depth and excitement.

 

[tinkerhon]

No. You are not wrong.

Frankly, the dialogue is poorly written and in some cases poorly acted. There is too much exposition and what I would refer to as surface level conversation that is far too matter of fact. It's not good, compelling television (regardless of whether it's SW).

You are too lenient on the girls.
You are too hard on the girls.
I don't wanna be a witch.
The jedi are good.
The jedi are bad. . . .Etc. Etc.

This type of dialogue and writing and acting makes it a very labored effort to watch. And, although I don't run a TV studio or am a show-runner, I cannot believe in any shape or manner that the studio or show runner wants to make it a labor or a chore to care to watch or follow.

It ain't no Shogun when it comes to quality, depth and excitement.

Wasn’t going to go there, but since you left the door ajar… lol

The acting ( basically the sisters) borders on horrific , and totally non believable)

 

[Skywalker3]

Totally agree on Osha/Mae's acting and goofy dialogue...but confession time, I'm not a fan of too much of any kids in SW...(yep that includes too much of little Leia in Kenobi and Anakin in TPM...) Or just at least keep it to a bare minimum. I did like Omega in Bad Batch, but it took a little while. I wish so much this Acolyte series had just been an animated series.
But since I am just expecting that now with this series, I'll ignore it best I can , and see if the rest of the story and acting are enjoyable, and so far they are. I am quite intrigued by these unconventional Jedi (just lying!) and where they might go with their stories. And I loved this coven/group's manipulation/interpretation of the Force. And really intrigued by how these twins may have been created. And do want to see how the twins' story resolves.
I didn't mind that they did a whole flashback episode. I was glad to get that full story development (although I think there's still something the Jedi are hiding/covering up, ) instead of the choppy editing that might have happened.

 

[mdmost]

I enjoyed it. If I made it through the kid actors in Phantom Menace, I can make it through the kids acting in this one. I feel based on Headland's previous work that Osha is an unreliable narrator. I feel like something else happened and we'll see it from Mae's perspective.

I don't feel this is the greatest crime against Star Wars that's been enacted. It has issues but I'm enjoying it. I'm interested to see more about what happened and we'll definitely get "from a different point of view" on how everyone died.

Interestingly, my wife has a massive problem with the Jedi "taking" kids. I mentioned that I would imagine the child is given a choice. If Mae had tested right and refused, I doubt the Jedi would abduct her. That is why Sol seemed very in tune with Osha. I think he sensed she wanted more than to live on that planet and that she had dreamed of being a Jedi. Maybe she had visions of that life for a time.

Based on pure speculation,

Spoiler

I'm guessing the coven was split on letting Osha go. The birth mother seemed very adamant that Osha shouldn't be a Jedi. I'm guessing this group was persecuted so the scars of that are reflected in how they view the Jedi. I bet the Jedi show up to bring Osha with them and Mae and the birth mother's faction try to stop them. Maybe Mae's dark force magic goes haywire and kills the coven. She's obviously prone to anger. Then she blames the Jedi for taking her sister away and causing the incident that kills everyone. Then a dark force user finds her and to become a Sith, she must take revenge all those who wronged her. Headland billed this as Frozen meets Kill Bill. Elsa had powers she couldn't control and she had to isolate herself to not hurt anyone and to be free. Kill Bill is a revenge film where the Bride seeks revenge on her old crew. I think the monk Jedi felt guilt because when he was possessed, he understood things from the coven's perspective. He had empathy for what they went through. Maybe he agrees that they should've never gone there and can't stand the guilt. Or he gets possessed and does something awful and can't live with himself? I think there will be a lot more to this than just a simple explanation. [/SPOILER}