Standard Rate for Renting Points... and commercial/professional renters...

[Sammie]

I'd like a clarification on this. What information was given by DVC that makes you think renting is against the rules of the POS?

That would be a direct contradiction from what I was told directly by DVC legal. Upon reviewing my rental history and tactics used I was told in no uncertain terms that nothing I was doing is wrong.

With your track record here on the Dis, now I am confused. See, this is part of the problem, so many diferent bits of information given depending upon who you speak to. It would be nice if everyone was on the same page.

If you weren't engaging in commercial renting then you did nothing wrong. I asked what was considered appropriate in respect to renting and what was not and I was told.

I have never been against renting for personal use and the POS allows it, as it should. The POS does not allow commercial use of DVC and some renting in my opinion (and obviously in DVC's opinion) crossed the line.

All renting is not commercial.

 

[dumbo71]

If you weren't engaging in commercial renting then you did nothing wrong. I asked what was considered appropriate in respect to renting and what was not and I was told.

I have never been against renting for personal use and the POS allows it, as it should. The POS does not allow commercial use of DVC and some renting in my opinion (and obviously in DVC's opinion) crossed the line.

All renting is not commercial.

Thank you. Was a defintion or guideline provided? I wasn't provided with one, just told I was doing nothing wrong.

 

[Plutofan]

I for one would hope that Disney does not do away with renting. Until we get a fair trade outside of DVC renting is one of the few if not only avenue to get a fair value out of your mermbership when you are not staying at a DVC resort. I rented points this past year becuase there was no way that I was going to trade points in for a cruise at $6.7 per points when my cost is well $10 with my mortgage interest. I for one will not be happy to have a lot of money invested with DVC to find out that a am paying a lot more for a cruise than a normal person who has not spent much money with Disney. Believe me since there are 8 of us going on the cruise that the price difference between using points and paying cash is significant. I believe that we all should all let Disney decide who is violating the rules based upon the circumstance.

 

[Dean]

My understanding of it is based on information given to me by DVC. Anyone wishing clarification can contact them too. I never go into anything without the facts.

The only other info we've had is second hand from now at least 2 sources of 20 (? total reservations or just rentals) per year.

 

[Sammie]

The only other info we've had is second hand from now at least 2 sources of 20 (? total reservations or just rentals) per year.

I asked and they emailed me a response. Any member can do the same.

 

[Dean]

I asked and they emailed me a response. Any member can do the same.

We get all kind of answers from MS on many topics, many are not accurate and not official. Thus I wouldn't have much faith in an email from MS on this topic, only from corporate or legal.

 

[Sammie]

We get all kind of answers from MS on many topics, many are not accurate and not official. Thus I wouldn't have much faith in an email from MS on this topic, only from corporate or legal.

I don't think I said I got a reply from MS, you assume much.

 

[Dean]

I don't think I said I got a reply from MS, you assume much.

Actually I didn't assume and realize the possibility you could have gotten info from elsewhere but simply stated a position based on one possibility. Why don't you quote the email and post in here?

 

[Sammie]

Actually I didn't assume and realize the possibility you could have gotten info from elsewhere but simply stated a position based on one possibility. Why don't you quote the email and post in here?

For what purpose. I contacted DVC to get clarification about renting, as I truly did not know what was acceptable. I recieved clarification from Business Standards & Regulatory Affairs at Disney Vacation Club. The email was addressed personally to me.

Unlike some I don't put personal emails addressed to me on the Net. I find that very unprofessional and a violation of the person who sent it.

Any member can do as I did and recieve information. Why the picking at me about it?

 

[Dean]

For what purpose. I contacted DVC to get clarification about renting, as I truly did not know what was acceptable. I recieved clarification from Business Standards & Regulatory Affairs at Disney Vacation Club. The email was addressed personally to me.

Unlike some I don't put personal emails addressed to me on the Net. I find that very unprofessional and a violation of the person who sent it.

Any member can do as I did and recieve information. Why the picking at me about it?

I'm not trying to pick at you, I am sorry you took it that way and apologize if it came across as such. If there's a policy it should be reproducible. But if you're uncomfortable passing it along I understand.

 

[RobDoc]

Sammie, you are welcome to hold that opinion but it is not supported in FL law or in the POS. And there is no published definition of Commercial Renting. The closest thing to it as stated in the POS is the limit of 2000 per resort and 5000 per person "To encourage purchase for personal use".

Actually the POS does provide a definition of "Commercial Purpose". "Commercial Renting" is not a phrase I find in the POS - if you find it in the POS, please provide the location.

The specific language is: " ... Use of Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any other purposes other than the personal use described herein is expressly prohibited. "Commercial purpose" shall include, but not be limited to, a pattern of rental activity by a Cotenant that the Association, in it's reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice. ... "

This has been brought up time-after-time and we still see posters referring to Commercial Renting when that is NOT in the POS. DVC has included a definition for "Commercial Purpose" and whether anyone agrees with that definition or not it does exist.

 

[Doctor P]

Actually the POS does provide a definition of "Commercial Purpose". "Commercial Renting" is not a phrase I find in the POS - if you find it in the POS, please provide the location.

The specific language is: " ... Use of Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any other purposes other than the personal use described herein is expressly prohibited. "Commercial purpose" shall include, but not be limited to, a pattern of rental activity by a Cotenant that the Association, in it's reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice. ... "

This has been brought up time-after-time and we still see posters referring to Commercial Renting when that is NOT in the POS. DVC has included a definition for "Commercial Purpose" and whether anyone agrees with that definition or not it does exist.

And there is case law, federal statutes and regulations, and state statutes and regulations that also help define the parameters of "commercial purpose." Ask any accountant whether there are objective ways to define whether someone is engaging in a commercial enterprise. I assure you that the answer is yes.

 

[Dean]

Actually the POS does provide a definition of "Commercial Purpose". "Commercial Renting" is not a phrase I find in the POS - if you find it in the POS, please provide the location.

The specific language is: " ... Use of Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any other purposes other than the personal use described herein is expressly prohibited. "Commercial purpose" shall include, but not be limited to, a pattern of rental activity by a Cotenant that the Association, in it's reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice. ... "

This has been brought up time-after-time and we still see posters referring to Commercial Renting when that is NOT in the POS. DVC has included a definition for "Commercial Purpose" and whether anyone agrees with that definition or not it does exist.

I am aware of the language and the reference. The point was there is no actual definition of what that is.

 

[Dean]

And there is case law, federal statutes and regulations, and state statutes and regulations that also help define the parameters of "commercial purpose." Ask any accountant whether there are objective ways to define whether someone is engaging in a commercial enterprise. I assure you that the answer is yes.

The definition of commercial for taxes and the like is not the issue and IMO, does not apply to this discussion IMO.

 

[waltfan1957]

What you are maintaining is that renting is wrong and that pre-booking weeks is wrong. I simply pointed out that other Timeshare companies are doing it for the membership. Seems they think it is OK.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

in your previous post you wrote quote "are you maintaining that marriot and other large companies etc" which I pointed out I never mentioned now you have changed it again do you actually read your own posts, commercial renting is something Disney is actively looking at and while I pay my dues to them their opinion is far more important to me than someone who twists others posts so they read how he wants them to, its quite sad really

 

[dumbo71]

Actually the POS does provide a definition of "Commercial Purpose". "Commercial Renting" is not a phrase I find in the POS - if you find it in the POS, please provide the location.

The specific language is: " ... Use of Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any other purposes other than the personal use described herein is expressly prohibited. "Commercial purpose" shall include, but not be limited to, a pattern of rental activity by a Cotenant that the Association, in it's reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice. ... " .

Thanks Doc.

Well, that really seems to answer it for the most part. Language exists that basically gives DVD/DVC the authority to decide "in it's reasonable discretion" just what constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

That lattitude should make those that are truly commercial very nervous.

 

[dumbo71]

in your previous post you wrote quote "are you maintaining that marriot and other large companies etc" which I pointed out I never mentioned now you have changed it again do you actually read your own posts, commercial renting is something Disney is actively looking at and while I pay my dues to them their opinion is far more important to me than someone who twists others posts so they read how he wants them to, its quite sad really

With all due respect Walt I think you are confused with what I was doing. For that I apologize. I should have phrased it differently.

What I was trying to get accross is that most Timeshares allow renting and even do that for the membership in many cases.

I was simply wondering if you feel DVC is an exception?

You state at the end that DVC's opinion is the only important one. We finally agree. Why don't you call DVC or email them for a definition of commercial renting and post it all here for us to read.

 

[crisi]

The definition of commercial for taxes and the like is not the issue and IMO, does not apply to this discussion IMO.

I disagree. The defination of commercial for taxes and the like is the legal definition of commercial. The contract is a legal document. If this ever goes to court, you can bet your booties that the legal definition of commercial will be in play.

 

[drakethib]

Set a price and go with it.

See if you can get it.

 

[Dean]

I disagree. The defination of commercial for taxes and the like is the legal definition of commercial. The contract is a legal document. If this ever goes to court, you can bet your booties that the legal definition of commercial will be in play.

For a timeshare even renting one day is potentially a taxable event. While it would likely be discussed, they would not be one and the same from a DVC standpoint.