Speculation from New FP+ Survey

[DakotaRose]

Haven't read all the replies, but have to ask this regarding option c. Do we really think the system would handle tens of thousands trying to get on it at 1:00 each day to book another FP? Is it a workable option, or will we all be spending a hour on our cell phones trying to get thru on the app before giving up?

 

[amylevan]

Option A is the worst because, again, if you get to the park early and use 3 FPs before noon, you'll be sucking up THREE additional FP that late-comers wil not be able to use.

Barf. Imagine, actually BEING in a park entitles you to riding rides.

I just took the survey (before I read the thread here) and I just couldn't figure out why they would impose a virtual 1 pm rope drop. It just made no sense to me. But I guess its to appease those who can't even make it to a park by lunch.

My favorite option was the rolling 3. Use a FP, get to add another. It makes the most sense to me.

 

[mom2rtk]

Barf. Imagine, actually BEING in a park entitles you to riding rides.

I know. What a crazy mixed up world we live in........

 

[JimmyV]

Having to use all 3 before you are able to get a new one would keep many guest from FP+ fireworks and parades. And if you wanted one of those then during a busy time, the best you would do would be 4 FP+s.

An interesting point. I suspect that "event" Fast Passes would have to be "de-linked" the way certain rides used to be, and that you would be limited to holding one per day. So in essence, you could have four FPs in your possession at one time if one of them was an event pass.

The option of being able to get one after using one sounds great except for those that wish to spend less time in the park and want to get the same as those that spend more time there.

Not sure I understand. Who are these people who spend less time in the park who want to get the same as people who spend more time in the park? Are you suggesting that there are people who would plan to be in the park for 6 hours who would want and expect the same number of passes as people who are in the park for 14 hours? There would be two words for that: Unreasonable. Irrational. This is the problem that they are trying to address. If the system can handle doling out more passes, then it should do so. But you have to be in the park to actually get them, so it stands to reason that the longer you are in the park, the more you can get. Frankly, I think people are getting all worked up over nothing. Either the system is close to max now, or they plan on doling out so many FPs such that all rides will become "by appointment only".

 

[ilovemk76]

-Option A suggested fixing the 3 FP+ limit by changing it to a rolling 3, meaning after you use one you can book another. The 4th (and 5th, 6th etc.) would be subject to availability, but in Epcot and DHS they could be additional tier 1 choices if they were available.

-Option B suggested fixing the 3 FP+ limit by opening up an additional 4th FP+ once the first 3 are used (subject to availability again). This option also lets you choose another tier 1 FP. This is a revolving 4th FP+, so you can keep booking if after using it.

-Option C suggested fixing the 3 FP limit by offering a 4th FP+ selection available to book starting at 1 PM each day. Again, this is a revolving FP+ that you can keep booking after subject to availability. Same as the other options, this one lets you pick from tier 1 for the 4th FP subject to availability.

Option B sounds the best to me.

C doesn't make ANY sense, because it will overly reward people who get to the park early. If you don't plan to arrive until 2-4pm, not only will you have missed the first round of FP, but then people will be

Option A is the worst because, again, if you get to the park early and use 3 FPs before noon, you'll be sucking up THREE additional FP that late-comers wil not be able to use.

I disagree on A. If everybody gets to pre-book, then the later comers will get 3 FP+s for whatever they originally booked.

A - Benefits early risers and will encourage use of the early FP+s. At this time, we book our FP+s later in the day and do SB during the early parts of the day.

B - Using all 3 FP+s early and getting 1 more for later in the day, would cause one to give up early, shorter SB lines for the longer ones later in the day just to get the 4th FP+.

C - Would hurt later comers and those who like to return to the resort about lunch.


My preference would be A.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

Option A would be the best. It appeases the people who usually use more than 3 fast passes and encourages people to book the early fast passes that are probably under utilized right now since the conventional wisdom has been to book fast passes for the afternoon. I would be pretty happy with this.

Option B doesn't work unless you decouple fast passes for fireworks or MSEP because otherwise some people will never be done using all of their fast passes.

 

[Mamiamjo]

I'm not sure if people have shared this on here before, but I know I haven't seen it. I just received a survey about FP+ from the trip we took about a month ago. They're asking some very interesting and specific questions on there that have me optimistic for the direction FP+ may be headed. The survey leads me to believe the 3 FP limit will be addressed sooner than later, as well as the park hopping issues.

After being asked the general what do you think about FP+ type questions, it brought me to 3 specific scenarios to give my opinion on. All scenarios involve the ability to prebook FP+ for all guests and also the ability to use your 3 options in more than one park. Here they are:

-Option A suggested fixing the 3 FP+ limit by changing it to a rolling 3, meaning after you use one you can book another. The 4th (and 5th, 6th etc.) would be subject to availability, but in Epcot and DHS they could be additional tier 1 choices if they were available.

-Option B suggested fixing the 3 FP+ limit by opening up an additional 4th FP+ once the first 3 are used (subject to availability again). This option also lets you choose another tier 1 FP. This is a revolving 4th FP+, so you can keep booking if after using it.

-Option C suggested fixing the 3 FP limit by offering a 4th FP+ selection available to book starting at 1 PM each day. Again, this is a revolving FP+ that you can keep booking after subject to availability. Same as the other options, this one lets you pick from tier 1 for the 4th FP subject to availability.

After answering all the questions about those scenarios, it asked me specifically about hopping. Another thing to note, the way they worded the questions they specifically said to assume for all scenarios that the tiers are in place. There was not even one question directed towards my feelings on them. Just speculation on my part, but I think it's pretty safe to assume they are not going anywhere for a long time.

Sorry in advance if this is old news, it was new to me!

Hmmm, thats weird, the survey that is shown in ethanwa's post with screenshots shows the three options in different order. for example, as shown in his post Option B is the rolling 3 FP Option. thats what id choose.
I wonder if you received a different survey?

 

[Good Morning Dewdrop]

I imagine they do have extra capacity at MK, mostly because they've added new FP attractions, plus some capacity at less popular tier ones at Epcot and DHS. I wouldn't mind being able to FP attractions that are not super headliners but might have a 30-40 minute wait.

As an early arriver, I would get the most from option A by booking one early FP and two afternoon FP. I would also be content with option C. Option B sounds like decision-making torture -- book three morning FP and hope you can get more for the afternoon or stick with the plan and book afternoon FP?

my thoughts exactly - I took the survey yesterday afternoon. I wonder how they decided who to send it out to - our first thoughts were the folks who had been when it was 100% (the turnover finished during our trip) FP+. Did anyone get it who had gone while legacy FP was still available?

Also some of the questions were vague as others have mentioned.

 

[roadtripper]

I just took the (REALLY LONG) survey too. My options were the same but listed in a different order. I went with the rolling 3 FP option as my first choice; it seems to address a lot of the concerns of the people here. We actually really liked FP+ on our recent visit, but we don't commando tour, and can usually only get DS to ride about 3 or 4 rides per day.

 

[surferdave]

Hmmm, thats weird, the survey that is shown in ethanwa's post with screenshots shows the three options in different order. for example, as shown in his post Option B is the rolling 3 FP Option. thats what id choose.
I wonder if you received a different survey?

They are trying to eliminate bias in the poll created by the order of the questions.

 

[tazadd0420]

I like option c. I know what am I thinking?!

Basically it works for our touring style. I want people to utilize late FP. Get to park later and have rides in the afternoon. That way less people in park in the morning. Get things done at rd and use FP in the afternoon.

If 4th FP allows same rides may get extra headliners. Also if low crowd day rolling 4th FP may allow for quite a few more rides.

With rolling 3 more FP in the morning. More people in FP queues. Sb longer. Less done quickly in the morning. Also your late comers will book later FP so you may use your morning 3 and still not get more headliners in the afternoon or evening.

We are currently looking at doing FP at 2nd park so would like first park not to have as many morning FP people.

Either method they use we will adapt and learn the pos and neg from the dis board.

 

[2Tiggies]

I just took the (REALLY LONG) survey too. My options were the same but listed in a different order.

I've completed countless surveys. There is no such thing as a 5 minute Disney Survey. You want to grab a large pot of coffee and be very comfortable when you start

 

[johde]

Barf. Imagine, actually BEING in a park entitles you to riding rides.

I just took the survey (before I read the thread here) and I just couldn't figure out why they would impose a virtual 1 pm rope drop. It just made no sense to me. But I guess its to appease those who can't even make it to a park by lunch.

My favorite option was the rolling 3. Use a FP, get to add another. It makes the most sense to me.

For the RD commando the rolling 3 is potentially the best. You get to DHS at RD use a 9:00 TSMM FP+ then immediately book another TSMM FP+. At 10:00 ride a Throwaway Tier 2 FP+ and book RNR FP+. It's 10:00 and you've taken 3 tier 1 slots while first time visitors who bought their tickets at the gate are pouring through.

The virtual 1 pm rope drop allows everyone, including people who buy their tickets at the gate, a few hours to make the first 3 FP+ before allowing anyone have a 4th. It's like going to a large pot luck dinner. You don't go up for seconds until everyone has had enough time to had firsts. Although I could see combining 1:00 with some other criterion to avoid the "rope drop".

A variation on what I said before would be you have the 3 prebooked FP+ and Day of FP+'s. To get your day of FP+s you need to use your 3 prebooked FP+ or use 1 FP+ and it be after 1:00. Then based on crowds the computer will let you know when you can make your next FP+.

And this "being in the park entitling you to ride more rides" argument shouldn't play into this. People who arrive at the park at RD get to ride more because they are there in the morning when the lines are shorter. FP+ is not about being able to ride rides it's about being able to skip the standby lines.

For example at Universal I can buy an express pass that allows me to use the express line 1 time on each attraction. If I buy the express pass at 9:00 a.m. or 3:00 p.m., I can use the express line 1 time per attraction. If I arrive at 9:00 a.m. I can take advantage of the short regular lines before using my express pass when the lines get long. If I arrive at 3:00 the lines are long and while I get to use the express line once per ride. I don't get the advantage of short standby lines the morning per got.

You're not wanting to ride more because you're in the park more. You want to skip the standby lines more because you are in the park more.

 

[morethananyonex]

What's wrong with wanting to skip SB lines more because you're in the park more? That's exactly what was so great about the old FP- system, people who put the most into it got the most out of it. That's the issue so many of us have had with FP+, no matter how much effort we put in we were stuck with the exact same 3.

I imagine Disney doesn't like that there are people that feel like that, as we are more likely to leave after our 3 are done with. Each scenario was followed up with questions asking if it would change your planning levels, your arrival time and your departure time. They want people spending money, not giving up and going back to the pool (or even off property).

 

[crostorfer]

I suggest the non-existent, (yet), Option D which would allow people 3 FP per day for the number of days of their stay, (5 night reservation = day actual park days), and then allow them to use them however they wish, just like dining credits. You stay 5 nights/6 days, you get 18 FP credits to use however you choose. You want to use all 18 in one day? Fine. You want to spread them out? Great. You want to use all 18 for TSMM over 6 days, or ride it 18 times in one day? You got it.

 

[morethananyonex]

I suggest the non-existent, (yet), Option D which would allow people 3 FP per day for the number of days of their stay, (5 night reservation = day actual park days), and then allow them to use them however they wish, just like dining credits. You stay 5 nights/6 days, you get 18 FP credits to use however you choose. You want to use all 18 in one day? Fine. You want to spread them out? Great. You want to use all 18 for TSMM over 6 days, or ride it 18 times in one day? You got it.

That would be a great option for guests because of the flexibility. That would be a nightmare of an option for Disney because of the flexibility.

I would love to be wrong, but I can't see any way possible a system like that could be implemented without serious limits that would make it much less appealing. They need some sort of mechanism in place stopping people from booking more than 1 TSMM a day, stopping people from using all 18 in one park per day, etc. It just doesn't work now that they push FP+ and want everyone using it. Disney needs everyone to have decent choices before they arrive or FP+ can't do its job, which is to get people into the parks instead of off property.

 

[JimmyV]

For the RD commando the rolling 3 is potentially the best. You get to DHS at RD use a 9:00 TSMM FP+ then immediately book another TSMM FP+.
At 10:00 ride a Throwaway Tier 2 FP+ and book RNR FP+. It's 10:00 and you've taken 3 tier 1 slots while first time visitors who bought their tickets at the gate are pouring through.

This is making a very big assumption that TSM and RnR FPs will be available at 10:00

The virtual 1 pm rope drop allows everyone, including people who buy their tickets at the gate, a few hours to make the first 3 FP+ before allowing anyone have a 4th. It's like going to a large pot luck dinner. You don't go up for seconds until everyone has had enough time to had firsts.

...except....If the pot luck dinner starts at 6:00 and the Johnson Family does not arrive until 7:30, it is irrational to expect everyone else to wait until they arrive before going up to get seconds. FP+ and its ability to pre-book attractions affords people the alternative option of arriving later in the day should they choose to do so. It does not create a new baseline by which early arrivers have to sit around and wait for stragglers to arrive before making the most of their days.

And this "being in the park entitling you to ride more rides" argument shouldn't play into this. People who arrive at the park at RD get to ride more because they are there in the morning when the lines are shorter. FP+ is not about being able to ride rides it's about being able to skip the standby lines....

...thereby allowing people to ride more rides. You cannot separate skipping lines from riding more rides. Skipping lines results in having more "non-line" time. How does one use that "non-line" time? There are many options. Go back to the resort for a swim. Have a leisurely meal. Meander. Shop. But most assuredly, riding more rides is absolutely one of the options. Being in the park absolutely entitles one to ride more rides. Otherwise, WDW would go back to using 11 Adventure ticket books whereby each guest could ride 11 rides irrespective of their arrival time. WDW did away with that system, so to its way of thinking, hours in the park bear a direct correlation to the number of rides ridden.To my way of thinking too.

For example at Universal I can buy an express pass that allows me to use the express line 1 time on each attraction. If I buy the express pass at 9:00 a.m. or 3:00 p.m., I can use the express line 1 time per attraction. If I arrive at 9:00 a.m. I can take advantage of the short regular lines before using my express pass when the lines get long. If I arrive at 3:00 the lines are long and while I get to use the express line once per ride. I don't get the advantage of short standby lines the morning per got.

And if WDW ever adopts such a system, then I'd be right there with you. But you cannot overlay Universal's system over WDW's. They are materially different. Or, will be if certain changes are adopted.

 

[johde]

What's wrong with wanting to skip SB lines more because you're in the park more? That's exactly what was so great about the old FP- system, people who put the most into it got the most out of it. That's the issue so many of us have had with FP+, no matter how much effort we put in we were stuck with the exact same 3.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to skip the SB line more. Everyone wants to skip more SB lines. It's a matter of being honest about what you want and it's an important distinction to make. You original statement though was

Imagine, actually BEING in a park entitles you to riding rides.

Under the current FP+ with 3 FP+ who's going to be able ride more rides. Someone arriving at MK at 9:00 a.m. RD and staying until 2:00 (5 hours) or the person arriving at 11:00 and staying until 8:00 (9 hours). I would contend the person in the park from 9:00-2:00 will ride more rides most of the year. Under FP-, especially before return times were enforced, allowed the RD person to do even more. So, it was never about "being in the park". It was about "being in the park at the right time" that allowed you to ride more rides.

I realize that for the time being, Disney has taken away what some people consider FP- biggest strength. But that biggest strength is also its greatest weakness depending on what side on the coin you're on. Again before return time enforcement, RD people thought it was great. Collect FP all morning use them in the afternoon when the lines got long. For the late arrivals, some FP were gone, other FP for headliners were hours away, and the standby line is moving slowly because everyone is using there morning FP's now.

Before you think I'm someone who just wants to sleep in all vacation, over the years I've experienced just about it all. Sometimes I arrive at RD, sometimes I arrive later in the day; I've visited on some of the deadest days of the years and on some of the busiest. I've had day's I could have easily pulled 7-8 FP (before M&G were FP and disconnected) and I've had days I've had trouble pulling 2.

 

[morethananyonex]

There is nothing wrong with wanting to skip the SB line more. Everyone wants to skip more SB lines. It's a matter of being honest about what you want and it's an important distinction to make. You original statement though was



Under the current FP+ with 3 FP+ who's going to be able ride more rides. Someone arriving at MK at 9:00 a.m. RD and staying until 2:00 (5 hours) or the person arriving at 11:00 and staying until 8:00 (9 hours). I would contend the person in the park from 9:00-2:00 will ride more rides most of the year. Under FP-, especially before return times were enforced, allowed the RD person to do even more. So, it was never about "being in the park". It was about "being in the park at the right time" that allowed you to ride more rides.

I realize that for the time being, Disney has taken away what some people consider FP- biggest strength. But that biggest strength is also its greatest weakness depending on what side on the coin you're on. Again before return time enforcement, RD people thought it was great. Collect FP all morning use them in the afternoon when the lines got long. For the late arrivals, some FP were gone, other FP for headliners were hours away, and the standby line is moving slowly because everyone is using there morning FP's now.

Before you think I'm someone who just wants to sleep in all vacation, over the years I've experienced just about it all. Sometimes I arrive at RD, sometimes I arrive later in the day; I've visited on some of the deadest days of the years and on some of the busiest. I've had day's I could have easily pulled 7-8 FP (before M&G were FP and disconnected) and I've had days I've had trouble pulling 2.

I don't know what you did with your quotes, but the statement you claimed was my original statement wasn't me. You're quoting amylevan, as seen here...

Barf. Imagine, actually BEING in a park entitles you to riding rides.

I just took the survey (before I read the thread here) and I just couldn't figure out why they would impose a virtual 1 pm rope drop. It just made no sense to me. But I guess its to appease those who can't even make it to a park by lunch.

My favorite option was the rolling 3. Use a FP, get to add another. It makes the most sense to me.

Anyways, I don't see a huge difference between wanting to skip stand by lines and wanting to ride more rides. They both boil down to the same want, riding more rides. It's just semantics.

 

[WillAustin]

Anyways, I don't see a huge difference between wanting to skip stand by lines and wanting to ride more rides. They both boil down to the same want, riding more rides. It's just semantics.

Yes. And it's strange that any system where some might possibly end up with the ability to ride more than others gets people upset. They'll never be able to mitigate some advantages and fully even the outcomes, whether it's getting their early or bring able to ride more by being in the park longer (FP or not). It is amazing how much some people worry about what others might get.