Spanking

[Suger Mag]

And I know kids like this who are not spanked ever. There is more to it than that. Some of it is the nature of the kid, some of it is that Mom isnt consistent or doesn't follow through. Some of it is not knowing what they are supposed to do instead of whatever warranted the spanking. There are a million reasons.

I have a close friend at work that has raised three kids totally on her own. Her husband died when she was pregnant with the youngest. They are three of the most polite, respectful young adults you could ever meet. They all went to college and all are successful. Two are parents and their kids are the sweetest and both are fantastic parents. When her three were little, she didn't just spank, she whipped with a belt when she felt they needed it. When her sons were teens, she thought nothing of slapping one in the back of the head. BUT there was never any doubt whatsoever that she dearly loves her kids. Her whole life has been built around doing what was best for them, being there for them, providing for them and being their strongest ally. And as adults, they love their mother dearly. They aren't violent in any way shape or form so that wasn't what she taught them at all.

Actually, the conversation about whipping a child was brought up first as an example of how spanking doesn't hurt the child in the long run because the poster knew of kids who were whipped by their mother who turned out to be wonderful adults.

That is not even what I said. I said that she spanked with a belt. I said I would not do the same thing. I said seeing the results of her parenting keeps me from choosing to judge her.

I used the family as an example that you cannot decide how a kid is going to turn out by your opinion of how they are disciplined or punished and that you cannot assume that what you think you witness is the only method the parent uses.

Actually yes... LuvsJack you did first use the word whipped with a belt, no one put words into your post. Please see the red bolded above. It made me sad when I forst read your post, because the act of whipping implies something much more violent than just spanking...is is a harsh word...

whip vs spank
When you posted about it, you chose that word, and to me that says volumes... that what those kids were getting was not "just a spanking with a belt"

I think this topic makes many folks defensive because they know in their hearts that hitting a kid is wrong...

 

[sam_gordon]

Given the information below, I have to think that although we have fared well in life we would quite possibly have done even better especially in those early years of finding the confidence to make our own way. I also believe that our relationships with our parents would have been healthier. Your comments indicate that you don't seem really interested in reading the research and opening your minds.

So you believe getting spanked at age 3 affected your confidence when you were in your early 20s? How often were you spanked?

And really, you were abused and you can't look back and see that you would have been better off had that not been the case? Well, my DH looks back and disagrees.

"Studies have shown that spanking can damage a child's IQ or ability to learn; that it trigger aggressiveness and worsens behavior. Gershoff says the pattern is consistent when a large number of studies are put together.

“In childhood, parental use of spanking was associated with low moral internalization, aggression, antisocial behavior, externalizing behavior problems, internalizing behavior problems, mental health problems, negative parent– child relationships, impaired cognitive ability, low self-esteem, and risk of physical abuse from parents. In adulthood, prior experiences of parental use of spanking were significantly associated with adult antisocial behavior, adult mental health problems, and with positive attitudes about spanking,” they wrote.

“Spanking was also significantly associated with lower moral internalization, lower cognitive ability, and lower self-esteem. The largest effect size was for physical abuse; the more children are spanked, the greater the risk that they will be physically abused by their parents.”

So I glanced at your links. The first one (about damaging a child's IQ) links to an article about climate change. Here's a quote from the second article:

The importance of making that distinction stems from the fact that profeSSionals who defend CP typically restrict their approval to mre use of CP (Friedman et aL, 1996), They could argue that the Power and Chapieski study confirms their belief that CP, when used only as a relative rare backup, is effective and harmless, or even beneficial.

The third link does the same... (bolding mine)

Frequent use of CP (ie, mother's use of spanking more than twice in the previous month) when the child was 3 years of age was associated with increased risk for higher levels of child aggression when the child was 5 years of age

.

I still maintain, and I haven't looked up studies, but it seems those you found help support it, that rare use of spanking does not cause long term negative effects, and can be helpful. I will readily agree someone being spanked daily or weekly for a minor transgression would suffer long term consequences. Is there a study that shows a child being spanked once in their life suffers long term effects because of it? How about twice? Note: I'm not talking about whipping or paddling?

 

[sam_gordon]

I was just a little uneasy about seeing a child having their trousers dropped down and then spanked. In the same way I'd rather not see a child relieve themselves in line - both are a little OTT if you see what I mean? It's just a personal thing, no judgement as such.

Is that what you saw? According to your OP, it doesn't sound like it.

If a mother spanked her child in DisneyWorld, for example in the line for the Haunted Mansion, in full view of everyone, would you be cool with it? I ask because the family behind me came darn close to it, and the mother wasn't trying to play it on the down low either - we all knew it was on the cards.

 

[Suger Mag]

I remember once when my daughter (now 16) was in preschool.... we were at the fair, and one of her friends came over to greet her. This kid was admittedly a handful, one of a pair of twins that were both crazy as heck...anyhoo... the kid comes up with Mom and brother, and for some bizarre reason starts off with smacking my daughter in the stomach... the mom immediately responds to her kid hitting mine by giving her son a quick slap upside the head and sternly says:

"Devon... we do NOT hit people"

yup... no confusing parenting message there...

 

[luvsJack]

https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-...search-on-disciplinary-spanking-is-misleading

This link is from American Pediatrics and discusses why the studies are misleading.

The writer does not condone abuse. It does support using spanking when other punishment methods have failed to work. And it does discuss how the studies done do not necessarily prove that spanking actually causes what the studies claim.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So you believe getting spanked at age 3 affected your confidence when you were in your early 20s? How often were you spanked?

This is just my opinion but a quick swat to the butt a handful of times when your child is 3 is different than harsher spanking that occurs more often and for a longer period of time (for years).

I don't even have any memories of when I was 3 years old but I still have memories of when I was 6 and my dad said "if you make that noise one more time I will pull this car over, pull your pants down and spank you"..me being me I made that noise and my dad proceeded to go onto the shoulder of the highway and followed through with what he said. Now of course a lasting mark didn't occur but my butt was red and sore for a while after. At the very least my parents were consistent in following through with physical punishments even if not everything they utilized worked on me.

Reading the comments I sorta see a few things going on--those who say they swatted their child's butt a few/handful of times, those who were spanked more or spanked their own children more and those who had much harsher and longer punishments (meaning it last for years over time). But each of these (and I probably missed how some posters described what they had when they were little, what they did/do for their children or what they witnessed from those they knew) are different enough which can impact how you (general you) view the issue.

 

[sam_gordon]

This is just my opinion but a quick swat to the butt a handful of times when your child is 3 is different than harsher spanking that occurs more often and for a longer period of time (for years).

I don't even have any memories of when I was 3 years old but I still have memories of when I was 6 and my dad said "if you make that noise one more time I will pull this car over, pull your pants down and spank you"..me being me I made that noise and my dad proceeded to go onto the shoulder of the highway and followed through with what he said. Now of course a lasting mark didn't occur but my butt was red and sore for a while after. At the very least my parents were consistent in following through with physical punishments even if not everything they utilized worked on me.

Reading the comments I sorta see a few things going on--those who say they swatted their child's butt a few/handful of times, those who were spanked more or spanked their own children more and those who had much harsher and longer punishments (meaning it last for years over time). But each of these (and I probably missed how some posters described what they had when they were little, what they did/do for their children or what they witnessed from those they knew) are different enough which can impact how you (general you) view the issue.

I agree with everything you said. I think people's definitions of "spanking" are different and that's causing issues in the thread.

 

[luvsJack]

I agree with everything you said. I think people's definitions of "spanking" are different and that's causing issues in the thread.

I have to apologize for muddying the waters on that. I used my friend as an example but it got a bit twisted.

For me spanking was used when they were small and along with other discipline methods. I described earlier how I used it with my dgd and that is pretty much how it was used with my own kids. Open hand, through the clothes (no pulling any pants down) and maybe 3 swats. And I can confidently say that none of them had any of the effects described in the study the pp quoted.

I do think some see the word spanking and because it's not something they do, they picture slapping about the head, spanking until there are lasting marks, naked bottom, etc. When for 99.9% of all parents none of this is what happens.

 

[EveDallas]

https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-...search-on-disciplinary-spanking-is-misleading

This link is from American Pediatrics and discusses why the studies are misleading.

The writer does not condone abuse. It does support using spanking when other punishment methods have failed to work. And it does discuss how the studies done do not necessarily prove that spanking actually causes what the studies claim.

Don't confuse people with facts. Some people act like every child who got a swat on the butt ends up in jail or like this guy

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I remember once when my daughter (now 16) was in preschool.... we were at the fair, and one of her friends came over to greet her. This kid was admittedly a handful, one of a pair of twins that were both crazy as heck...anyhoo... the kid comes up with Mom and brother, and for some bizarre reason starts off with smacking my daughter in the stomach... the mom immediately responds to her kid hitting mine by giving her son a quick slap upside the head and sternly says:

"Devon... we do NOT hit people"

yup... no confusing parenting message there...

I get what you mean. I do think though if you swatted (I'm not the fondest of hearing about a slap/hit/whatever on the head but that's just me) your child just a handful of times over their growing up years while also saying "we don't hit people" that more than likely wouldn't send a mixed message. I say more than likely because the handful of times means it's a very rare occurrance.

If however you consistently or at least more frequently resorted to swatting/hitting/whatever your child's butt or head especially in a harder way while also saying "we don't hit people" that is something that would likely send mixed messages. The reenforcement there is "my parent swats/hits/whatever me so it must be more ok to do that to other people" or something similar.

 

[sk!mom]

I think this topic makes many folks defensive because they know in their hearts that hitting a kid is wrong...

This thread in a nutshell.

 

[LSUmiss]

I

Don't confuse people with facts. Some people act like every child who got a swat on the butt ends up in jail or like this guy

I didn’t see anyone saying that. Most ppl have specifically said they are NOT talking about a swat on the butt. It seems instead of having a legitimate discussion you would rather pop in every now & then & throw out sarcastic comments. And, it’s really not “facts” it’s actully more that there is a lack of concrete facts that prove it’s definitely harmful. I can appreciate that. But, when you’re talking about your child, personally I don’t like taking chances of doing anything that even might be harmful.

 

[luvsJack]

Actually yes... LuvsJack you did first use the word whipped with a belt, no one put words into your post. Please see the red bolded above. It made me sad when I forst read your post, because the act of whipping implies something much more violent than just spanking...is is a harsh word...

whip vs spank
When you posted about it, you chose that word, and to me that says volumes... that what those kids were getting was not "just a spanking with a belt"

I think this topic makes many folks defensive because they know in their hearts that hitting a kid is wrong...

I did use the word whipping and later said that I should not have. What she did was a spanking with a belt. She did not beat her kids.

I even said "whipping" brings to mind pictures of something much worse than what I meant and that I needed to correct that. It implies beating. Not what happened at all. She used a belt where others may use their hand.

My use of a word tells you what happened in house you have never been in, in a place you don't know with a family you have never met? Wow. Some skills you got there.

So why is the other side so defensive about their stance? You can't pick the side you disagree with and decide they defend their opinion because they are wrong.

 

[luvsJack]

I

I didn’t see anyone saying that. Most ppl have specifically said they are NOT talking about a swat on the butt. It seems instead of having a legitimate discussion you would rather pop in every now & then & throw out sarcastic comments. And, it’s really not “facts” it’s actully more that there is a lack of concrete facts that prove it’s definitely harmful. I can appreciate that. But, when you’re talking about your child, personally I don’t like taking chances of doing anything that even might be harmful.

But all of you have been talking about these studies as if they are gospel when that is not the case.

I don't like doing anything that I believe to be harmful either. I don't believe that spanking (which come on, that is exactly what swats on the butt are) is in of itself harmful. But I know that running off into a crowd of people can be harmful, running into traffic definitely is, throwing rocks at cars is harmful to other people, etc.

 

[Suger Mag]

I did use the word whipping and later said that I should not have. What she did was a spanking with a belt. She did not beat her kids.

I even said "whipping" brings to mind pictures of something much worse than what I meant and that I needed to correct that. It implies beating. Not what happened at all. She used a belt where others may use their hand.

My use of a word tells you what happened in house you have never been in, in a place you don't know with a family you have never met? Wow. Some skills you got there.

So why is the other side so defensive about their stance? You can't pick the side you disagree with and decide they defend their opinion because they are wrong.

Thank you for the compliment on my skills, as a scientist I have been trained to think critically and look for information.

Why are you upset with me, YOU are the one who told us that what she did was more than spank... YOU told us what is happening in the house... I suggest that if you do not want folks to read your posts and believe what they contain, that YOU should edit them if they are incorrect...

And I know kids like this who are not spanked ever. There is more to it than that. Some of it is the nature of the kid, some of it is that Mom isnt consistent or doesn't follow through. Some of it is not knowing what they are supposed to do instead of whatever warranted the spanking. There are a million reasons.

I have a close friend at work that has raised three kids totally on her own. Her husband died when she was pregnant with the youngest. They are three of the most polite, respectful young adults you could ever meet. They all went to college and all are successful. Two are parents and their kids are the sweetest and both are fantastic parents. When her three were little, she didn't just spank, she whipped with a belt when she felt they needed it. When her sons were teens, she thought nothing of slapping one in the back of the head. BUT there was never any doubt whatsoever that she dearly loves her kids. Her whole life has been built around doing what was best for them, being there for them, providing for them and being their strongest ally. And as adults, they love their mother dearly. They aren't violent in any way shape or form so that wasn't what she taught them at all.

They did not just spank... they whipped with a belt

 

[EveDallas]

I

I didn’t see anyone saying that. Most ppl have specifically said they are NOT talking about a swat on the butt. It seems instead of having a legitimate discussion you would rather pop in every now & then & throw out sarcastic comments. And, it’s really not “facts” it’s actully more that there is a lack of concrete facts that prove it’s definitely harmful. I can appreciate that. But, when you’re talking about your child, personally I don’t like taking chances of doing anything that even might be harmful.

Nope. I just don't see the point in discussing anything with someone who believes that parents who use spanking are somehow inferior or uneducated. I'm neither of these things and my 21 year old somehow survived his childhood although according to your studies he should be some sort of violent outlaw by now.

 

[Disneylover99]

I think this topic makes many folks defensive because they know in their hearts that hitting a kid is wrong...

Right?

It's called assault when adults hit one another. But it's okay to hit your child, who you presumably love the most in this world. It will never make sense to me.

 

[luvsJack]

Thank you for the compliment on my skills, as a scientist I have been trained to think critically and look for information.

Why are you upset with me, YOU are the one who told us that what she did was more than spank... YOU told us what is happening in the house... I suggest that if you do not want folks to read your posts and believe what they contain, that YOU should edit them if they are incorrect...




They did not just spank... they whipped with a belt

Lol. I am hardly upset with you. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. Your critical thinking skills should be able to tell you that one word does not tell an entire story and it's helpful to understand the person's meaning behind it.

Like I said, the word whipped brings up pictures in the mind of something that was not what I was talking about. She did not beat her kids. She did not abuse them. That is why I should not have used the word.

What she did, was use a belt on their butt. Call it spanking, whipping, whatever but it was not a beating which is exactly what you are trying to say.

Go back and edit so that other posters can jump on the fact that I did? How is that any different then you refusing to recognize that I tried to correct my use of the word in later posts?

And all of this is about someone you don't know one thing about. And someone whose parenting methods I don't share so it's entirely meaningless. If you want to believe her grown children are somehow handicapped by their upbringing, by all means go for it.

 

[handinpocket]

And all of this is about someone you don't know one thing about. And someone whose parenting methods I don't share so it's entirely meaningless. If you want to believe her grown children are somehow handicapped by their upbringing, by all means go for it.

YOU are the one who brought it up and used her as an example of spanking is great. I'm sorry but using a belt or any other object to "spank" is abusive to me. I also think slapping your kids up side the head is beyond the pale and out right abuse.

 

[sam_gordon]

Has anyone else noticed that the "anti-spanking" crowd is the one that is insulting those who disagree with them? Calling them "ignorant", "lazy", or "defensive"?