Southwest Person of size question

[grumpy14]

Hi Everyone,

My father will be joining us this January at Disney and we are thinking about flying Southwest. My father is on the larger size and may be required to purchase an extra seat. However, we are planning on having him sit next to my four year old daughter (who weighs 30 lbs). In your opinion, do you think Southwest would require him to purchase an extra seat if the person he is sitting next to is his granddaughter? I am planning on having him board with her during the family boarding so that they have a greater chance of sitting next to each other.

I know the safe thing to do would be to just purchase an extra ticket for him, but I don't really want to if I don't have to since I know there will be plenty of room for him and my daughter since they can put the arm rest up between them. If anyone has any experience on this I would appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!

 

[stormer]

I think you should be fine. My DH is bigger, so he always sits next to one of our kids. He always puts the armrest up and that makes a lot more room. He usually asks for a seatbelt extender as we are boarding this way if the seat belt doesn't fit, he has it and doesn't have to call someone over for help.

 

[DebbieB]

How large is he? I think people worry too much about this. I had a friend bring another friend along on a vacation and she would not fly with us on SW because she was worried they would consider her a POS. She flew separate on AirTran. When I met her there, she was only like a size 18 or 20, she would not have had a problem.

Just be sure that he gets an A boarding pass so that he can get an aisle seat with the 4 year old next to him. That way no one can complain they are being crowded. With the family boarding, sometimes they do not allow grandparents to board at the same time although you could probably save his seat and switch when he gets on.

 

[shellybaxter]

As long as he can sit with the arm rests down - just to show they will stay down - he will be fine. If he can't sit with the arm rest down it will be a problem. Even with the four year old they can and will (I speak from experience and a nasty scene in a thankfully almost empty airport) require your father to purchase the seat. BTW - I was right - I was able to sit with the arm rests down and wasn't required to purchase an extra seat, but it required quite a fight with a Southwest manager. I later got an apoligy letter, for the fighting, not for the policy, which they reiterated.

 

[verticalchaos]

They are very sporadic about how they enforce their rule. They have been known to make someone purchase an extra seat even if the arm rests go down because the person's shoulders broke the plane of the seat and went into the other seat (potentially infringing on another passenger's space) or into the aisle (potentially hampering flight attendant operations and anyone who needs to move into the aisle for any reason).

Personally it's one of the reasons I don't fly Southwest if I can help it. Not that the size thing is a problem for me but because of the inequity of the policy and the way it's applied. It really is random and at the discretion/opinion of each flight crew or gate crew.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Anyone flying Southwest and concerned about the airline's Customer of Size policy should first go to the website and read and print (and bring) the policy and FAQ. Southwest strongly believes a ticket entitles its holder to one and only one complete seat; due to its open seating policy, it can't guarantee that a passenger will be seated next to a small traveling companion. Even if the two are seated together, the smaller person is entitled to the full seat.

Simply because one is "of size" doesn't mean one will be required to purchase a second seat. Read the FAQ. It's of extreme interest that passengers whose upper bodies (only) expanded over the plane of the armrests were forced to purchase additional seats, because this is specifically addressed in the FAQ - that, because the upper body can be twisted, and because the armrest isn't affected, these passengers aren't affected.

 

[verticalchaos]

Anyone flying Southwest and concerned about the airline's Customer of Size policy should first go to the website and read and print (and bring) the policy and FAQ. Southwest strongly believes a ticket entitles its holder to one and only one complete seat; due to its open seating policy, it can't guarantee that a passenger will be seated next to a small traveling companion. Even if the two are seated together, the smaller person is entitled to the full seat.

Simply because one is "of size" doesn't mean one will be required to purchase a second seat. Read the FAQ. It's of extreme interest that passengers whose upper bodies (only) expanded over the plane of the armrests were forced to purchase additional seats, because this is specifically addressed in the FAQ - that, because the upper body can be twisted, and because the armrest isn't affected, these passengers aren't affected.

And they essentially contradict themselves and demonstrate why it's no wonder that there is no uniformity in its enforcement with these...

"What is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size?
The armrest is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size. It serves as the boundary between seats and measures 17 inches in width. Customers who are unable to lower both armrests and/or who compromise any portion of adjacent seating should proactively book the number of seats needed prior to travel."

It clearly says AND/OR WHO COMPROMISE ANY PORTION OF ADJACENT SEATING.

But then says:
"If a Customer has broad shoulders, will he/she have to buy a second seat?
Again, if a Customer cannot lower the armrests, the additional purchase is necessary. Simply having broad shoulders would not necessarily prevent another Customer from occupying adjoining seat. The upper body can be adjusted, but the portion of the body in the actual seating and armrest area doesn’t have this flexibility."

Confusing!

That's why they should IMHO - obviously in an area hidden from general view to protect privacy, much as you can request security screenings be done - have a seat to check size if there is any question BEFORE the boarding process even begins. Like the "If your luggage doesn't fit" guides that are at most check-in counters. Have clear markings on the chair that are equal across every example. Then the policy can be truly said to be being applied fairly. When it's left to the discretion of the crew, it is random and ultimately more humiliating for the person involved. (I've seen it happen before - the crew on a connecting flight had an issue with someone who had just flown in on another Southwest flight with no problem. It's not pretty for the customer or the airline.)

 

[kaytieeldr]

That's why they should IMHO - obviously in an area hidden from general view to protect privacy, much as you can request security screenings be done - have a seat to check size if there is any question BEFORE the boarding process even begins.

If you ever watched the show "Airline" on A&E, the hidden area was to discreetly have the passenger preboard and test an actual plane seat. The two examples I saw, one passenger fit, and one had to call family members to find someone to pay for an additional ticket for him. He did this on the jetway, long before the plane began to board - again, discreetly out of sight of the other passengers.

 

[seashoreCM]

Simply having broad shoulders would not necessarily prevent another Customer from occupying adjoining seat.

This sentence does not mean that having broad shoulders will never prevent another customer from occupying the adjoining seat.

The flight attendant may use your demeanor as one of the criteria in determining whether you need to purchase another seat. This is a form of profiling.

Note that no part of the next seat is considered "shared space".

OT: I think that the term "shared space" also does not apply to overhead bins because once an item it put there, the item occupies that amount of space for the entirety of the flight.

 

[bumbershoot]

It clearly says AND/OR WHO COMPROMISE ANY PORTION OF ADJACENT SEATING.

Seems that they are calling the seat part, where you sit, "seating". Not the back of the seat. In the first part, they are stating that the armrest is the dividing line, not the shoulder area.

 

[ToddyLu]

DH is 5'8 and 265# he has the second largest set of shoulders in the Fire Dept here and about a 20 inch neck ( #1 goes to Donnie, 6'2" and about 320#). We flew Southwest From New Orleans to MCO last Nov and back. I sat next to him at 5'4" 220#. We did the early bird check in both ways, got seats with his Mother (5'5" at 150#). Had no problems. Of course he took two Ativan before boarding so he was very still and stayed in his seat the whole trip (loves to fly, not afraid of heights, but absolutely cannot stand the idea of not being able to walk around for that length of time--even in a car). Just wanted you to have a point of reference.

 

[robinb]

I think you should purchase the extra ticket for your father if he is in fact close to a Person Of Size. Southwest will refund the extra ticket if the flight is not full. If the flight is full and he NEEDS the extra ticket he may be delayed until there is a flight open with two tickets.

 

[seashoreCM]

In the first part, they are stating that the armrest is the dividing line, not the shoulder area.

The "dividing line" goes from floor to ceiling. The armrest gives you a good idea of where the dividing line is.

Mathematically, the "dividing line" is a vertical front to back surface or plane (no pun intended) that bisects the armrest.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The "dividing line" goes from floor to ceiling. The armrest gives you a good idea of where the dividing line is.

Mathematically, the "dividing line" is a vertical front to back surface or plane (no pun intended) that bisects the armrest.

Copied from a previous poster, who copied directly from Southwest's website:

if a Customer cannot lower the armrests, the additional purchase is necessary. Simply having broad shoulders would not necessarily prevent another Customer from occupying adjoining seat. The upper body can be adjusted, but the portion of the body in the actual seating and armrest area doesn’t have this flexibility."

The 'dividing line' IS the armrest, and the division applies to the portion of the customer's body within the armrest zone.

 

[verticalchaos]

Copied from a previous poster, who copied directly from Southwest's website:
The 'dividing line' IS the armrest, and the division applies to the portion of the customer's body within the armrest zone.

But not always. I have seen people get removed from flights (because it was full) or made to purchase another seat because their shoulders went into the next seat's space. The arm rest was down no problem.

Again, the problem is they are in no way, shape, or form consistent with their application of the term "person of size" so it's almost always up to individual discretion. You might get lucky, you might not.

 

[seashoreCM]

I have seen people get removed from flights (because it was full) or made to purchase another seat because their shoulders went into the next seat's space. The arm rest was down no problem..

Simply having broad shoulders would not necessarily prevent another Customer from occupying adjoining seat. The upper body can be adjusted,

In the case mentioned, a person's broad shoulders did prevent another customer from occupying the adjoining seat. Hence the need to purchase another seat or take another flight. No luck, no inconsistency, no capriciousness, no sporadicity needed.

 

[verticalchaos]

In the case mentioned, a person's broad shoulders did prevent another customer from occupying the adjoining seat. Hence the need to purchase another seat or take another flight. No luck, no inconsistency, no capriciousness, no sporadicity needed.

Oh, you were on my flight? Sorry, but nope. One of the times I saw it, the person was actually in a situation very much like the OP's. The larger person was sitting with a family member child whose head didn't even reach where the guy's shoulders were. The child was in no way being prevented from sitting in the seat. In the other, the person in the adjoining seat could sit and was stating to the flight attendant that she was in no way inconvenienced and to leave the guy alone.

But the real inconsistency? When I went to the bathroom later in the flight, in both cases there were people further back in the plane LARGER THAN THE PEOPLE EVICTED OR FORCED TO PURCHASE sitting with obviously uncomfortable seatmates. Apply it across the board to everyone on the plane or don't apply it at all.

Personally, I would rather know where the heck I'm sitting on a plane and have that number confirmed. And 9 times out of 10 I can do that cheaper on a decent airline and not have to mess with Southwest's attitude in general. IMHO they're NOT all that.

 

[seashoreCM]

Random musings: The FA took so much time handling the larger person near the front of the plane that continuing on to the back and repeating the procedure with others would result in his taking a late (an infraction). Whereas if one of the persons in the back was aggrieved and brought a complaint (before departure and involving the captain and/or complaint resolution officer), it would be one of the latter who would take the late. Or maybe nobody takes a late when it goes that high up the chain of command and instead proliferous occurrences of the same thing would lead to some policy change.

 

[verticalchaos]

There are multiple FAs on board. Not just one. Though honestly it wouldn't surprise me if Southwest tries to get away with 1 - or charges you for the extra FAs.

Whatever. You guys can have your delusions of "saving OMG SO MUCH MONEY" on a crap airline. I'll stick with other airlines that *gasp* give me an assigned seat for the same price or lower - and usually on non-stop flights. 8+ hours for a flight that non-stop would be 2-3 is ABSURD.

 

[kaytieeldr]

not always. I have seen people get removed from flights (because it was full) or made to purchase another seat because their shoulders went into the next seat's space. The arm rest was down no problem.

Which is why I said to print out the policy and FAQ and bring them [with one's travel documents when flying Southwest].