Southwest Early Bird Checkin

[dburg30]

First of all...let me thank all of you for keeping this thread so civil!! It's a wonderful thing to behold.

The one thing I see is this...perhaps we need to look at the EBCI a bit differently. Rather than as a sure fire way to get an A bp, it seems to be more of a convenience thing..no need to worry about where you are at when that 24 hr mark comes along.
I would imagine that the A bp's are assigned based on when that $10 fee was paid. For instance....Sue Jones paid her fee's 3 months in advance of her Jan 4 flight. So she gets A 16, 17, and 18 for her group. Bill Smith paid his fee's for that flight about an hour after Sue did..he gets A19, 20. Then, Fred Smurf comes along, and pays his fee a month beforehand for that flight, gets A 21, 22, 23. Let's say no one else pays the fee.....All these folks are checked in at the 36 hr mark..giving them that bp order. So...Lillian Fay comes along, pays the $10 fee for that flight, at the 35 hr mark...giving her an A24 bp. No one else pays the EB fee before the 24 hr mark. Now, it's first come, first served....whoever gets there first is going to get A 25 and on.
At least that's how it would work in my mind.
Would I pay it? Not sure. I would almost rather they changed the fares to allow for A bps....maybe 45 seats that were $15 more...gets you a guarenteed A seat. Or it may be time for SW to get on board and charge for just that second bag.
But this whole EBCI system seems to be making things more confusing than they need to be.

I think you'll see people that pay the 'anytime' price get theirs assigned by when they bought the EB.. Then the 'wanna get away' get their numbers assigned by when they bought, then finally, the 'DING!' people getting theirs.

So Anytime - by time, then WGA by time, then DING by time.

 

[MarkinNM]

But at least with bag fees (which I of course hate) at least you know your bag is going to go on the plane. It's not a CHANCE of your bag flying with you, like this STUPID fee is.

For us, it's another 60 bucks for seats, or we can fly a legacy airline and play $90 to take our bags, AND have seats, AND fly nonstop.

So SW has definitely fallen off prime position in this house.

SWA has taken a hit here as I guess we will have to see how this works out...

 

[twinklebug]

So Anytime - by time, then WGA by time, then DING by time.

They could make an annoying promo song out of that (think "Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie ... " )

 

[Lewisc]

But at least with bag fees (which I of course hate) at least you know your bag is going to go on the plane. It's not a CHANCE of your bag flying with you, like this STUPID fee is.

For us, it's another 60 bucks for seats, or we can fly a legacy airline and play $90 to take our bags, AND have seats, AND fly nonstop.

So SW has definitely fallen off prime position in this house.

Jet Blue assigns seats, lets you check one bag for free, let's you bring a huge bag on the plane and offers IFE.

This fee will backfire if it motivates passengers to book other carriers. Attracting passengers who are going rebook every time the fares goes down aren't the most profitable passengers.

I'll speculate SW may go after change fees next. Maybe not directly, SW could let the credits expire in 6 months instead of 12. Maybe make a change so the credits can only be used by the original passenger. That would end the sale of TTF on eaby. It would increase the number of credits that expire unused.

 

[Buzz's Buddy]

From what I can read here on the DIS, SWA has some real haters out there no matter what they do…………

The same can be said about almost every airline, car rental company, limo company, etc., etc...

I've never flown SW, but this new policy does appeal to me. I prefer to know exactly where I'm going to sit and while this doesn't do that, I like it better than gambling on getting in at the 24 hour mark.

 

[bavaria]

Gee thanks! I agree it is going to be ugly. I would much rather hang out with a bunch of frequent flyers than people that have paid tis extra fee.

It would be interesting to see it in person.

We've already started a collection to buy you a ticket - you don't actually have to fly anywhere as SW will refund the funds if you cancel.

You are the perfect candidate - an impartial reporter, a mom, a frequent traveller, and most importantly you have that seemingly rare quality of common sense and logic.

 

[dburg30]

The same can be said about almost every airline, car rental company, limo company, etc., etc...

.

Yep.. It's just the flavor of the month thread right now.

 

[bavaria]

NOT an MCO flight but....

DBro checked in at 24 hour mark yeasterday for today's flight from STL to PHL and got A33 and 34. Did NOT pay the $10 as it was him and a buddy and they do not care where they sit

I think that will be the case on non-leisure routes and during non-holiday periods. Leisure routes and during holidays I can see this becoming more of an issue - hence my feeling that the flights FROM MCO will be impacted more than TO MCO.

Of course, if all the families decide that they have their golden ticket and don't buy EB, it may not happen. But that depends on how many golden tickets there are on a flight, and just what SW plans to do when they reevaluate the program in a few weeks.

I still think that there may be more to come, and that SW just too a giant leap somewhere (I'm not sure where, but this to me signals the start, especially as they couldn't wait until the next fare release to do so)

 

[Lewisc]

We've already started a collection to buy you a ticket - you don't actually have to fly anywhere as SW will refund the funds if you cancel.

You are the perfect candidate - an impartial reporter, a mom, a frequent traveller, and most importantly you have that seemingly rare quality of common sense and logic.

We need two candidate's. One will purchase a business select ticket, or will qualify for medical pre-boarding. The other will wait and get their BP at the airport, hopefully a "C" BP. We need reports regarding passenger behavior on board and at the gate area. How many famlies abuse family "mid-boarding" for example.

I nominate the poster I quoted as the early boarder. I suggest medical pre-boarding so you can get your bulkhead seat. A better seat if you take the flight and a shorter walk off the plane if decide to deplane before push back.

Let Safetymom board last. You can decide to deplane as Mom is boarding. Give her the seat you're vacating.

 

[bavaria]

OK, but Mom may have to wait a few weeks - I won't be back in America until next month!

That should give enough time for the fund to grow to cover secret spy cameras and click counters so that we can fully record all the action and count the pertinent numbers.

And if any FA even thinks of singing I am off that plane so fast and the experiment will be ruined!

Better send kaytieeldr instead...

 

[Tara]

Interesting thread………………


I LUV SWA and have no problems with this new program, fee whatever one chooses to call it. From what I can read here on the DIS, SWA has some real haters out there no matter what they do…………

I don’t like the fact they are charging this “fee” as if it becomes popular I can see this being only the beginning of “fees” being slid in very cleverly to make up for the lost income they have been feeling lately, but to pay $10 for EBCI vs $20-$30 for bags other airlines are currently ripping off people with, I will take this ANYDAY over that greedy baggage fee other airlines are charging.. We fly out on Saturday and I will do the 24 hr OLCI and take my chances BUT for the return we will be in the MK at the 24 mark and do NOT want to be rushing to a computer to check in, that is a convenience fee I am very willing to pay, automatic check in…………

I'm no Southwest hater, but I'm not an apologist, either. They do some things very well and I enjoying flying the airline, but I do feel this new program came out of the gate a little rough. At least with OLCI you could assume a relatively good boarding number. Sure, it was a chance, but you weren't paying for it. With EBCI, you are paying for that chance.

Personally, I think they need to reframe it as simply a convenience fee, and leave any mention of where you'll be seated out of it. OR they need to charge more but limit the number of spots for ECBI. I would be willing to pay more for this service if it were limited in such a way that I could be sure I'd be getting an A pass.

I disagree that this is like a bag fee, however. Yes, bag fees are higher. Yes, both are designed to increase revenue. But at least with a bag fee, I know exactly what I'm getting. I don't see anything "greedy" about bag fees, though. They are a result of airlines struggling to survive in a pricing climate that is simply not sustainable. In the absence of the ability to earn a profit (or break even) through appropriate fares, they have to do something. Honestly, compare baggage fees to overnight shipping and tell me where you can send something up to 50 pounds for $15-$25...I wouldn't call the fares greedy. In fact, when I was pricing my next trip to Orlando, the cheapest Southwest fare (a connection through BWI) was the same price as the cheapest either Delta or USAir fare (don't remember which now) plus 1 checked bag. That's pretty much been my observation - that Southwest fares have gone up wherever possible and other carriers have been able to be more competitive because they have this additional revenue stream that Southwest is (so far) unwilling to use.

 

[safetymom]

OK, but Mom may have to wait a few weeks - I won't be back in America until next month!

That should give enough time for the fund to grow to cover secret spy cameras and click counters so that we can fully record all the action and count the pertinent numbers.

And if any FA even thinks of singing I am off that plane so fast and the experiment will be ruined!

Better send kaytieeldr instead...

Wouldn't that be something. I am also not a fan of singing FA's.

 

[MarkinNM]

I'm no Southwest hater, but I'm not an apologist, either. They do some things very well and I enjoying flying the airline, but I do feel this new program came out of the gate a little rough. At least with OLCI you could assume a relatively good boarding number. Sure, it was a chance, but you weren't paying for it. With EBCI, you are paying for that chance.

Personally, I think they need to reframe it as simply a convenience fee, and leave any mention of where you'll be seated out of it. OR they need to charge more but limit the number of spots for ECBI. I would be willing to pay more for this service if it were limited in such a way that I could be sure I'd be getting an A pass.

I disagree that this is like a bag fee, however. Yes, bag fees are higher. Yes, both are designed to increase revenue. But at least with a bag fee, I know exactly what I'm getting. I don't see anything "greedy" about bag fees, though. They are a result of airlines struggling to survive in a pricing climate that is simply not sustainable. In the absence of the ability to earn a profit (or break even) through appropriate fares, they have to do something. Honestly, compare baggage fees to overnight shipping and tell me where you can send something up to 50 pounds for $15-$25...I wouldn't call the fares greedy. In fact, when I was pricing my next trip to Orlando, the cheapest Southwest fare (a connection through BWI) was the same price as the cheapest either Delta or USAir fare (don't remember which now) plus 1 checked bag. That's pretty much been my observation - that Southwest fares have gone up wherever possible and other carriers have been able to be more competitive because they have this additional revenue stream that Southwest is (so far) unwilling to use.

Baggage fee is just crap and a HUGE RIPOFF!!!!
As they are doing NOTHING new or upgrading nothing, simply charging for you to take your bags, something they never did. This ploy is just to increase the bottom line period and to force you to pay for it, whats next, breathing air fee, seat belt fee, window cleaning fee, bathroom cleaning fee, all stupid but IMHO so is the baggage fee. This fee is nothing more then paying to not sit in front of the comp @ the 24 hr mark and letting SW assign you a boarding pass at their leasure...........I still think this is the start of fees on the no fee airline................

 

[Lewisc]

Baggage fee is just crap and a HUGE RIPOFF!!!!
As they are doing NOTHING new or upgrading nothing, simply charging for you to take your bags, something they never did. This ploy is just to increase the bottom line period and to force you to pay for it, whats next, breathing air fee, seat belt fee, window cleaning fee, bathroom cleaning fee, all stupid but IMHO so is the baggage fee. This fee is nothing more then paying to not sit in front of the comp @ the 24 hr mark and letting SW assign you a boarding pass at their leasure...........I still think this is the start of fees on the no fee airline................

Airlines found passengers are more willing to accept lower base fares, with extra charges for things like baggage, then pay profitable fares. I agree with your last point, this fee suggests SW is moving in the direction of other airlines. I'll speculate an end to a free second bag will be next followed by some limits on TTF credits.

A few years ago Southwest's free baggage allowance was 3 checked bags with a maximum weight of 70lbs per bag. I don't consider lowering the allowance a "ripoff". It probably was a ripoff, Southwest applied the new limits to passengers with reservations. Passengers who were given the 3 bag limit in their confirmation. Some airlines attempted to increase checked baggage fees to already ticketed passengers. They even refused to offer a refund to passengers who requested it. That was a ripoff. The government told the airlines NO.

Deciding to price services a la carte isn't a ripoff. Passengers need to include any applicable luggage fees when comparing airfare.

 

[crashbb]

Airlines found passengers are more willing to accept lower base fares, with extra charges for things like baggage, then pay profitable fares. I agree with your last point, this fee suggests SW is moving in the direction of other airlines. I'll speculate an end to a free second bag will be next followed by some limits on TTF credits.

A few years ago Southwest's free baggage allowance was 3 checked bags with a maximum weight of 70lbs per bag. I don't consider lowering the allowance a "ripoff". It probably was a ripoff, Southwest applied the new limits to passengers with reservations. Passengers who were given the 3 bag limit in their confirmation. Some airlines attempted to increase checked baggage fees to already ticketed passengers. They even refused to offer a refund to passengers who requested it. That was a ripoff. The government told the airlines NO.

Deciding to price services a la carte isn't a ripoff. Passengers need to include any applicable luggage fees when comparing airfare.

Why bother? Anything SW does is great according to him. Anything any other airline does is lousy. The end.

The two big issues with what SW is doing are (a) the opaqueness and (b) the fact that they changed the rules after people had purchased their tickets.

 

[Tara]

Baggage fee is just crap and a HUGE RIPOFF!!!!
As they are doing NOTHING new or upgrading nothing, simply charging for you to take your bags, something they never did. This ploy is just to increase the bottom line period and to force you to pay for it, whats next, breathing air fee, seat belt fee, window cleaning fee, bathroom cleaning fee, all stupid but IMHO so is the baggage fee. This fee is nothing more then paying to not sit in front of the comp @ the 24 hr mark and letting SW assign you a boarding pass at their leasure...........I still think this is the start of fees on the no fee airline................

Perhaps you would rather a couple of legacy domestic carriers go out of business and then we'll see what fares are like when Southwest has even less competition? I can give you plenty of fare comparisons out of my city that show how Southwest compares. I can also tell you that when I fly to visit family, I always take Northwest and there is nothing about having an assigned seat, paying a reasonable fare and paying for 1 checked bag that feels like a ripoff to me.

 

[bavaria]

First of all...let me thank all of you for keeping this thread so civil!! It's a wonderful thing to behold.

Well, we made it through 22 pages of civility. I guess we don't get a prize now, do we Mom?

 

[Lewisc]

Why bother? Anything SW does is great according to him. Anything any other airline does is lousy. The end.

The two big issues with what SW is doing are (a) the opaqueness and (b) the fact that they changed the rules after people had purchased their tickets.

I assume SW didn't think they could wait until the end of the year for EB revenue.

I'll add a third issue. SW could have announced the EB program 2 days earlier, before the schedule was extended. SW didn't have to let passengers book new dates a day before announcing the new policy.

A lot of passengers aren't paying for assigned seats, with airlines that offer free seat assignment closer to the travel date. Some airlines let passengers pay a few dollars for a seat in the front of the plane, with a little extra legroom. According to posters who are very frequent fliers few passengers pay for those seats.

I'd be surprised if that many Southwest passengers pay $10. In fact I think the $10 fee will increase if too many passengers elect EB.

You're right about the poster I responded to.

 

[Brian Noble]

As they are doing NOTHING new or upgrading nothing, simply charging for you to take your bags, something they never did.

Sure they did. It was part of the fare. Instead of raising fares for everyone, they raised prices for people with checked bags---and checked bags cost extra money to transport vs. just a passenger with a carryon. You have to pay people to move all those bags on and off the plane, for example.

The bottom line is the bottom line. For some SW pax, the bottom line just went up by $20.

SW didn't have to let passengers book new dates a day before announcing the new policy.

I admit I found this to be a little sleazy too.

 

[blissventure]

Perhaps you would rather a couple of legacy domestic carriers go out of business and then we'll see what fares are like when Southwest has even less competition? I can give you plenty of fare comparisons out of my city that show how Southwest compares. I can also tell you that when I fly to visit family, I always take Northwest and there is nothing about having an assigned seat, paying a reasonable fare and paying for 1 checked bag that feels like a ripoff to me.

I realize SW has a very loyal fan base. Their loyalty doesn't affect me at all. If I have no other alternative, I put a smile on my face as best as I can and fly SW.
Otherwise, It's Delta for me. I like having an assigned seat. I just don't always have time to play the game of opening 5 windows to get a boarding pass. Of course, that game will probably become less fun as more folks are rewarded for their exact 24 hours before efforts with a C pass. These are early days with this new program. Once word gets around, I think more and more passengers will pay. All the paying passengers will board before the non-payers, right?
Personally, it would irritate me no end to pay $10.00 pp each way to get a slip of paper. I'll pay a small bag fee happily, because along with it I get a real, no kidding seat number.

I'm just not big on schemes, games, or singing FA's.