Sorry, another vent about family!

[DMRick]

Your sister may find that she disagrees with your "rental free" terms and this would give her enough time to find a new place and save yourself money and fights with family.

I guess I thought this was a done deal. She already told her sister she could move in. I assume that includes her mom and other sister as well. I think if she backs out now, she will have a lot more mad at her than one sister.
I am totally missing something here. Sounds to me that the sister is wanting to move in, with OP's permission, and would like the rest of the stuff taken out of the house..the stuff that will be donated and trashed. She's upset because the OP is taking a long time to do it. Also sounds to me like the sister might be a bit overwhelmed herself, with a severly mentally disabled child, and her mom and sis living with her, even if they help her with her children. Also sounds like things have gone easier for the OP, and she feels her sister is jealous. Seems to me the easy fix, since she already offered her the house rent free (who will pay the taxes and mow the lawn, etc..just curious?) would be to make time to move the stuff out. Personally, I would give up this coming weekend (maybe hubby can babysit) and go get the packing finished, and that should end this complaint. The two sisters, other than this, seem to spend time together each week and enjoy each other's company, why not settle this problem the easy way...finish cleaning out the house.

 

[DMRick]

Wow, you got that from the OP's post? I am truly missing something here. The OP's sister was offered a rent free home (and it sounds like mom and sis and bf too..but maybe they got a different place, since the sis gave notice at her apartment). Sounds like permission has been given for her to move in. But there is still stuff in the house..to be donated and trashed, and sis would like it moved out. So, you think she sounds like the type that would trash her sisters house because she wants the junk moved out before she can move in?

If she gets mad at you, she might trash the place out of spite. She sounds like the type.

 

[bumbershoot]

I guess I thought this was a done deal. She already told her sister she could move in. I assume that includes her mom and other sister as well. I think if she backs out now, she will have a lot more mad at her than one sister.

We once didn't back out of a done deal b/c we didn't want to make waves...and in retrospect, bring on the waves! DH's brother was moving, and told DH that he could rent his condo and that he paid x amount on his mortgage. Great deal. Tiny condo, but a really good deal. When it came time for DH to move in, the rent was doubled. Seems that brother had a second mortgage, and DH was now going to pay that, too. And then there were condo dues that weren't mentioned up front.

DH didn't make waves, moved in, and it was the biggest waste of money...we'd even agreed to lease-to-own...but when BIL's partner (worked in apartment and condo management and we figured he'd be the one to make such a contract) never came up with an actual contract for that after over a year of living there, we backed out and moved out.


Unless they sign a contract nothing's a done deal, even if the OP will have to deal with strained sisterly relations. And it seems like the sister doesn't mind stressing the OP out...

Wow, you got that from the OP's post?

It was my concern as well, though I didn't state it like that...I didn't get it from OP's post, but from human nature... And from watching sisters interact for decades now...the relationship is a deep and mysterious one...my own sis is 25 years younger, and we don't have a "sisterly" relationship, but watching friends, it seems that sisters can drive each other absolutely to the limit, but rarely totally end the relationship.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Wow, you got that from the OP's post? I am truly missing something here. The OP's sister was offered a rent free home (and it sounds like mom and sis and bf too..but maybe they got a different place, since the sis gave notice at her apartment). Sounds like permission has been given for her to move in. But there is still stuff in the house..to be donated and trashed, and sis would like it moved out. So, you think she sounds like the type that would trash her sisters house because she wants the junk moved out before she can move in?

Letting people live "rent free" sets up a weird dynamic over money. OK, maybe not "trash" the house, a poor choice of words on my part.

You do agree that OP should have some "terms of understanding" with living there, correct? If she had such an agreement the sister would not be bugging her, like a move in date. I think that is fair to the rent free sister and the OP.

OP is trying to sell the house and if you let someone live there, there is no motivation for the sister to help sell it.

That could be a real problem. How long can the OP afford for her sister to live "rent free"? That will certainly be a serious issue if the house is on the market longer than expected.

ETA....Also if the rent free sister cannot/does not want to purchase the house after time has passed, this may make it tougher on the OP. So, assuming the sister is going to buy the house is a very bad business decision in the long run for OP, it may fall through.

In other words they need to sit down and discuss terms of the living arrangements and maintain a "business type" relationship over the move. I think having some firm dates set, will make for better discussions.

 

[phillmolly]

Thank you all for your replies!

As far as her living in the house while it is on the market - We live in Michigan, 10 miles south of Detroit, houses here are on the market for an average of two - three years. Most likely what will happen is that in a year from now my sister and her boyfriend will buy the house on a short sale. The fact of the matter is that in the last five years that house has lost about 70% of its vaule. At one time my DH and I had about 40K in equity, we are now upside down by about 40k. That is just the reality of this market. There are in homes in my old neighborhood that have been on the market since before I got pregnant with my son. We would rather let my sister live there and save money up for a down payment, ect, than let the house sit empty. She will take care of the lawn, snow removal, stuff like that. The house is actually in pretty good shape, new roof, new AC, new carpet and flooring. The only major concern I have is that it needs a new toilet. We will probally pay for it and put it in for her.

For now we will be making the house payment and taking care of the taxes, I am dropping the content portion from our homeowners insurace, she has a renters policy.

As far as her being ungrateful, yes she is! But then she always has been, so I am pretty used to it, LOL! She is 8 years younger than I am and even though she isn't the baby anymore, she was for almost 10 years and still has that sense of entitlement. I do love her and kids and I want to help them as much as I can, but she just really ticked me off yesterday.

Yes I need to get my behind over to the old house and clear it out. And I will, just as soon as I find someone to watch my DS, any voulenteers? LOL!


ETA: I like the idea of charging her a dollar a month for rent, I am going to talk to my DH about it tonight.

We did talk about renting it out, I had even put an ad on Craigslist, however we both feel better with someone we know staying there. I know that she likes the house and she lived with us for a while when she was teenager, so she is very familar with everything.

 

[SaraJayne]

OP, my younger sister sounds a lot like yours. You have my sympathies.

 

[castleview]

I agree with other pps that this is a great opportunity for you to say "This isn't going to work out." The real estate market stinks right now and I'm pretty sure given how self-absorbed she sounds that potential buyers are going to be very turned off by her antics.

 

[Feralpeg]

While it's nice of you to offer the house while it's on the market, I have to agree with a PP that it will probably cause more headaches than help. Not only could the house sell quickly, which would mean your sister and her family would have to move again, but most agents do not want the occupants there when they show it. Is your sister prepared to leave teh house on fairly short notice? It sounds like she has a lot on her hands. Can she keep the house clean and organized for showing?

Exactly! If you think you have problems now, just wait until you get a contract on your house. Where will they go? How quickly can they move? While it is a very nice gesture, you are asking for a lot of heartache by doing this.

Of course, I don't know that this will happen, but your sister could sabotage your efforts to sell the house very easily by making it uncomfortable for people to view the house. Not a good idea.

 

[kacaju]

we are letting my sister and her family move into it RENT FREE!

So now my vent is that she is nagging me about moving all my stuff out of the house! She yelled at me over the phone today because I told her that I was not going over to the old house to finish packing up the computer room. She wanted me to wake my 22 month old son from his nap, drop him off at her looney bin and go over there and get everything out TODAY!
what is the big deal, wake up your son and go get that house cleaned out If you were reanting the house to me...would you leave your crap in there? Chances are no, you would have gotten your stuff out.. You need to give your sister the same respect. (yes, I know you are letting her live there rent free, but that is not a reason to keep your crap in the house)

Now, my sister is very high strung,
It sounds like your sister has a lot going on, all she is asking is to have the place cleaned out so she can move in.

she still has pay rent on her apartment through the end of September so she still has two months before she has to move.
she has 2 kids,(a job??)and I am assuming the 9 year old is in school if all that is true, 2 months are nothing, she needs the time

What really drives me crazy is that she was going on and on about how she has two kids and can get so much done, while I only have one child and it takes me forever to do anything!


Yes, she has two children, a daughter who is two weeks younger than my son and a nine year old son who severely mental disabled
. But she also has my mom, my 20 year old sister, and her boyfriend living with her!
I am basically a single mom as my DH works 6 days a week, 14 hours a day!
sorry, it sounds like she has a lot more on her plate then you have on yours


And sure it would be easy to get stuff done if I stuck my son in front of the TV and ignored him all day and let everyone else take care of him!

I became a mother to mother my child, not to let someone else take care of him. I enjoy spending time with my son and I do a lot of actives with him during the week and on Sunday when my DH is off we like to spend time together as a family.

She is right when she says it is not my priority to be over at the old house finishing the packing, I have just about everything I need here at my new house. At the old house is mostly just stuff that really just needs to get donated or trashed.

she is right, you are placing no priority over this and that is not fair at all to your sister if your stuff over there is truly crap, get rid of it. I became a mother to my 3 children (16, 14 and 10) to mother them myself too. But come on. wake him up, throw him in a pack and play and let him watch TV while you clean out the house you will not be a bad mom for doing so. Your excuses are lame (imo) and I do not blame your sister one bit if you are teeling her these things

And for the record it's really only one room that still needs to get cleared out, the master bedroom, the babys old room, and the living room are all cleared out so she can start moving stuff into those rooms anytime she wants.

I was planning on going over there today and packing some stuff up, my mom was going to come over to my house and watch my DS for me while he was napping, but she wasn't feeling well. Probally because she was up all night taking care of my sisters son!

And yes, I am jealous of all the help my sister gets, but I also understand that she really does need it more than I do!
Okay, vent over!

I may come across harsh, I do understand your vent, and do not know you or your family. From what you wrote though, it sounds like you are part of the problem. I really don't see why you can't go clean out the house. You would for anyone else

 

[srferson]

Most likely what will happen is that in a year from now my sister and her boyfriend will buy the house on a short sale.

For now we will be making the house payment and taking care of the taxes, I am dropping the content portion from our homeowners insurace, she has a renters policy.

As far as her being ungrateful, yes she is! But then she always has been, so I am pretty used to it, LOL! She is 8 years younger than I am and even though she isn't the baby anymore, she was for almost 10 years and still has that sense of entitlement.

I'm just wondering... You say "for now" you'll be paying for everything. What is "for now?"

If she still has that immature sense of entitlement and you keep paying for everything, why would she and her boyfriend bother to buy the house? Ever?

I'm not saying don't help your sister, but I'd seriously suggest making a plan and putting it down in writing now, not a year from now. You can care for your family and cover your butt at the same time.

 

[DMRick]

Where is your mother and other sister going to live? And why would you pay the mortgage, instead of your sister and her boyfriend?
I don't know a lot about short sales, but isn't that when the bank lets you sell a house for a lot less than it's worth? Wouldn't it be just as good to get the bank to let you short sale it now, before you put even more money in it, and lower the selling price?
Doesn't sound like your sister has gotten a lot given to her, if she can't afford to pay for a place to live. As for you being jealous that she gets help from your mom..be careful what you wish for. You too could have her problems with her child and need your mom's help. I don't think it's worth what she must be going through with her child, just for some free help from mom.

Bumber..apples and oranges imo. Your hubby was the rentor..he could have just refused to pay more than was quoted. The only stress I see the sister giving the op, is wanted the junk moved out of the house so she can move in.
As for human nature..I know a heck of a lot of people, and not a one of them would purposely trash their sisters house, so I don't get that either.

 

[dimimi]

What is the plan IF you sell the house ASAP? How do you know you will need a short sale? You might get lucky and sell quickly, then your sister would need to move again? Just a thought.

Also, since this is a free rental, I think you ought to leave whatever you want in one room and empty it at your convenience.

 

[DMRick]

Also, since this is a free rental, I think you ought to leave whatever you want in one room and empty it at your convenience.

Then should she be allowed to come in and out at her convenience and help herself to the stuff whenever she wants? So she gets a storage area for junk in what is now her sisters living area. The sis can just live with a room with junk, because hey, it's free? So you are saying, give her the house to take care of for you, and trust her to do that, and make it rent free..but with strings? That's something that should have been talked about before the plans for the sister to move in, and before the sister gave notice at her apartment. I think if I was the sister, I would find another place to live. I think this will cost her more than she thinks.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Well, IMHO, doesn't matter if the house is upside-down....

So, sister gets to live there, on her terms, totally rent free.

And, if anyone thinks that it is going to be any easier to work with the sister and get her out of the house in the future.... WRONG... There are major horror stories... It can be almost completely impossible to get somebody evicted.... And, in a case like this... worse case scenario.

I know it is 'family'.... But, you know what... All of these cases that you hear about are ALWAYS family.

OP: possession is 99% of the law....
Once sister has a key and has set up residency.......
Even if you admitted that you just wanted to suck-it-up and give sister a place to live, totally for free..... there is no way, ever, that I would have even entertained such a situation without every detail spelled out in a contract. A contract that was iron-clad, and had a definite time limit/termination.

OP is still 100% responsible for the mortgage financially.
OP is still responsible for taxes.
OP is still responsible for any homeowners liabilities.

All the family issues that everyone mentioned here seem to be 100% spot on. And the fact that the house is financially upside down doesn't, IMHO, do one tiny thing to explain or justify the situation.

 

[arminnie]

I may come across harsh, I do understand your vent, and do not know you or your family. From what you wrote though, it sounds like you are part of the problem. I really don't see why you can't go clean out the house. You would for anyone else

Well I DO see how hard it can be to clean out a house. My sister and I have spent over 60 hours SO FAR cleaning out my Dad's house.

We are just boxing stuff up that we are keeping. An estate sale company will come in and spend about 3 weeks (with multiple staff) arranging, selling, donating and trashing the rest of the stuff.

The sister gets occupancy in two months - the OP has no reason to disrupt her life to get out any earlier. It's HARD work.

 

[DMRick]

The sister gets occupancy in two months - the OP has no reason to disrupt her life to get out any earlier. It's HARD work.

I missed that. I thought the OP had given her permission to move in now..but that she had paid her rent through September. Since I have no idea where mom and other sis are going, maybe they are staying in the apartment until then.

The OP seems to be close to her sister, and I don't think she's making her seem like a horrible person. The OP has moved out and the sister can move in..so if I didn't want to finish moving out, I would have given my sister a date that she could move in, and then I wouldn't have to worry about when it was ready. Sis would have known just when she could move in.
OP said the stuff left behind is all going to be donated or junked. It's also one room, not a whole house. OP is all set up and doesn't need any of the stuff she left behind. Why not just get it out of there. If it's not that much stuff, how long could it take?
She offered her house to her sister, rent free. That was her choice, the rent free part. She never once indicated that the sister felt it was owed her. To me it sounds more like she'll have someone there to take care of it, so it doesn't look unlived in, or unkept (lawn) and sis will be there to show it. I never got the opinion from the OP that sis was a slob, would try to stop the sale, or wanted more than the OP was offering. Doesn't even sound like sis said the toilet had to be replaced. Sounds like the house value is going down and down..having someone in there might make it easier to sell and less chance of someone breaking in and wrecking it. I don't get why sis doesn't have to pay any of the mortgage or taxes, but the OP made that deal so it is what it is.

 

[kacaju]

I moved with a 2 year old and a 3 month old. I sucked it up and did it. I moved my Mom the same morning I signed my now 10 year old for Kindergarten. (what a hassle that was trying to get her signed up and then racing to my Mom's and my Mom was sick as a dog.)
I was in charge of my Aunt's estate a few years ago and had to pack up and move her stuff within a month. (thank goodness she died at the beginning of the month so i had the month) but still she was 2 1/2 hours away.

Point is, no one likes packing up crap out of a house, stuff that the OP said was junk and needed to be trashed. She has a 2 year old. 1 kid. her comments of not wanting to wake him up from a nap, not wanting others to parent him, she became a mom to mother him, not have anyone else raise him.
I am sorry, put the kid in a pack and play with some toys and the TV and she should be able to get this stuff out of the house. It is very nice she is letting her family move in. I just don't get the mentality of she is staying there for free, so in that case it is OK to leave crap in the house. OP herself said moving that stuff is not a priority of hers. That is not a good excuse to leave the stuff there.

 

[Wishing on a star]

The current conversation really confuses me....

So, the sister has her own place for the next two months...
And, it is OKAY for her to call the OP and rip her a new one to move out of her own home, that she and her DH own... like, TODAY!!!!
I find this viewpoint to be pretty inconceivable.

Sorry, but my DH would be involved in this one like, yesterday...
And, there would be no way that I would let this relative virtually take possession (and yes, this would be 'possession') of my home.

Folks may think I am really drawing at straws here, but there is just something, something even psychological, about situations like this where somebody is given unlimited, uncontracted, possession of a home/car/etc...

OP, I would hate for this to go even more wrong than you could ever imagine. But, you can't say that you weren't warned.

I actually KNOW somebody who built a brand new house, ended up letting his poor mother and sister live there, with no financial rent or responsibility whatsoever...
Ended up in the nastiest court battle you could ever imagine.

What does your husband think about all of this??????

 

[Darsa]

Uhm, if I were being offered a place to live for FREE... I'm pretty sure that I would be beyond grateful and willing to do anything I could to make the transition an easy one, including offering to take care of the rest of the stuff in the house, especially if I knew that it was just junk/donted stuff. I certainly WOULDN'T be calling and yelling at the person allowing me to stay there without charging me... that's just ridiculous.

 

[Wishing on a star]

It goes way, way, beyond being ridiculous...
That's not even the beginning of what this is all about.

I am truthfully fearful about what this situation will mean for the OP and her husband in the near future....