(Somewhat of a vent) Can someone explain how children are chosen for honors clases?

[punkin]

My DD13 is in 8th grade. This is her first year in public school. She is in GT classes for Math (Algebra), English, and French. She tested into GT Math and English. She has been on the Honor Roll every quarter so far. Her Math grades have been A, B, B for the past 3 quarters and she currently has 100% in Math, so she will most likely make A this quarter as well.

I just found out her teacher did not recomend her for Honors Geometry next year because she has missed some school (the child was sick for goodness sake) and her grades were not that good (I thought they were pretty good myself, especially for a GT class). I spoke to the teacher and the guidance counselor and they both tell me if I don't like the decision, I should appeal. That's it. No more discussion.

I will obviously appeal to the high school math department, but they don't know my child. All they see are the grades on paper.

I just dont get it

Any advise from the teachers or other parents out there?

 

[Patch'sD]

Teachers are making decision on non related criteria. I have found that the Best Teachers are teaching the Accelerated and Honors Courses. Force in there if she wants to go.

 

[dizagain]

I too would love to know this! We moved here (Illinois) from Texas in the fall and even though DD had been in the G/T program there, they wouldn't put her in advanced classes here...they put her in the "middle" group. Well, low and behold, after the first quarter they wanted to move her to the advanced math and LA classes. Fine. Well, in Texas she took regular 5th grade math - no accelerated offered. Here, the kids in her advanced math class all took 6th grade last year so they are now in 7th grade math...fine, again. DD is making B's (her first ever, and it's killing her) but I keep reminding her she completely SKIPPED 6th grade math that the other kids had and is making B's. Not so shabby.

So, they take a computer test to find their place for next year?? DD is stressed out to the max over this...we can't calm her down. No official results yet, but the kids all compared scores and hers were "below the smart kids" in class and she thinks her life is over. Really wishing for some school communication here!

 

[froglady]

On the surface, it appears that she would qualify. (At least in DS's school) However, students perform differently in different Math areas, and perhaps she's having trouble with a Math skill that is crucial for understanding Geometry, so her teacher thinks another year of Math/Algebra will be better for her?

BUT, the teacher should have explained that to you if that's the reason.

 

[luvmarypoppins]

Our youngest ds is going to a private high school that our other 2 ds attend. He had to have an interview with the principal that included her reviewing his grades. He is a straight A student in math. She already said we will put you in the accelerated (gifted) math class. Hello, dont I have a say about this. I talked to dh and we are saying NO!! He has to get adjusted to the new curriculum, how they do things there etc. I would much rather him be in a normal class and get an A then in an accelerated class and struggle with a lower grade. He got to sit in on one of the gifted math classes for 8th grade, which is what he is in now and he said he had no clue about some of the concepts they were going over, hence his current school might be teaching a different curriculum etc. You are your childs best advocate and you should speak up if you are not happy etc. Best of luck.

 

[FINFAN]

I agree...appeal it. Around here the squeaky wheel gets the oil. I am not so sure that the best teachers are teching however...most of the kids at DD's HS who are in College Prep have WAY more homework/projects than the kids in Honors, and a LOT more free time....DD asys her science class is covering more advanced stuff than H. Chem/Phys, and same for her History class.

Pam

 

[Snowysmom]

I would appeal it. Last year DS wanted to go into Honors English for this year, junior year in high school. It was the only class he took that was not Honors level. His English teacher refused to sign off for him. I went to talk with the Guidance Counselor and she brought in the English teacher too. We talked and she told me she thought DS could do the work but had missed 2 homework assignments that year. We decided that if DS passed in all his homework assignments for the next 3 weeks, she would sign off. It worked and DS is doing well in honors English this year. Don't take no for an answer if you are sure your child can do the work and wants to.

 

[punkin]

Thanks for the support. I am a little lost how to navigate a large public school system. This is all new to me and I don't want to hurt DD's chances for getting into the right class. The guidance counselor told me that if my appeal does not go through, I have one more level of appeals (up to the school district). We'll see. I am supposed to get a decision on the appeal in the next month or so.

 

[punkin]

I would appeal it. Last year DS wanted to go into Honors English for this year, junior year in high school. It was the only class he took that was not Honors level. His English teacher refused to sign off for him. I went to talk with the Guidance Counselor and she brought in the English teacher too. We talked and she told me she thought DS could do the work but had missed 2 homework assignments that year. We decided that if DS passed in all his homework assignments for the next 3 weeks, she would sign off. It worked and DS is doing well in honors English this year. Don't take no for an answer if you are sure your child can do the work and wants to.

Well, it would be nice if someone would actually talk to me and tell me a reason other than she was absent a lot. Heck, I know that and even with her absenses, she is still pulling a B, so what is the problem.

My daughter said that the teachers can only recomend 2 children per class for honors, but that does not seem right either. In any event, one of the children who was recomended had lower grades than my DD and the only child in the class with higher grades than DD was not recomended. So, obviously, the recomendation is not grade-dependant.

 

[mickeyboat]

I moved around a lot as a child. I excelled in school, but was always put into the above average, not accelerated classes at my new schools. Then after a while they would put me into the accelerated classes, but I sometimes struggled because I wasn't the same knowledge level as the accelerated class, and really had to work hard to get there.

I truly think I was denied the upper level classes because I was a new student to the school. Why would the school give a new student, who they had no history with, a spot in the higher level class, especially if it would mean taking the spot from an established student?

I still resent my parents in a way because they did not advocate strongly enough for me. This issue really affected my math education - and it started in 8th grade. Please do whatever you can to get your children in those classes if you really feel that is where they need to be.

Denae

 

[allicat]

Appeal it! This is a sore subject with me. In this school district, your child is nothing more than standardized test scores when it comes to advanced classes.

DD(5th grade) has consistently gotten all A's on her report cards but was only picked for some of the advanced classes and not the longer 80 minute pull out program because I was told she didnt score high enough on her IQ test. I dont see how a child who cant do any better than she is doing on a daily basis is excluded because of one test.
I was told by the advisor that "maybe she didnt value the test." Oh ok I pretty much didnt put much weight into anything the advisor said after this because clearly she was just giving me standard answers-my kid gets straight A's and values what she does.
If she isnt picked for the program in middle school, I guess we will go fight it. Im afraid she will sit there bored and lose her desire to learn.

 

[punkin]

Im afraid she will sit there bored and lose her desire to learn.

Yes. I am too.

Math used to be DD's favorite class until this year. She had a fabulous math teacher and she was way ahead of her age group in learning math concepts. This year, math has been VERY easy for her. Her issues (to the extent she had any) were her absences and her boredom as many of the concepts they studied, she already knew. Now keep in mind that Algebra is not an 8th grade class. DD is a year ahead of the grade level math and, in fact, her math grades this year count toward her high school average.

I want her in honors Geometry because I really think she belongs there in order to feel challenged.

Another problem, as mentioned by a poster, the best teachers teach honors. Her current math teacher is really an English teacher (same thing with her science teacher). There is a shortage of qualified math and science teachers and the most qualified tend to get put in the honors classes because most English teachers have trouble understanding the concepts at that level, let alone teaching them. I want DD to have the most qualified teacher possible.

 

[missypie]

Each district is different. You need to ask a lot of questions. Here, any child can take pre-AP or AP classes. The teachers make recommendations, but they have to let you in if you want because the classes are worth more points in the GPA. There are special English and Social Studies classes that you have to be "identified" as gifted and talented to get in (through testing.)

 

[punkin]

Each district is different. You need to ask a lot of questions. Here, any child can take pre-AP or AP classes. The teachers make recommendations, but they have to let you in if you want because the classes are worth more points in the GPA. There are special English and Social Studies classes that you have to be "identified" as gifted and talented to get in (through testing.)

She'll be able to take AP once she finishes the required courses. For example, she is currently on track for AP calculus in her senior year whether she takes honors geometry or not. However, if she gets into honors, her grade is weighted more heavily for her average and it looks better on her college application.

She is currently in GT and the non-honors geomerty class she is currently registered for is still GT, just not honors.

I tried to ask a lot of questions and her guidance counselor did explain a lot of things to me, but as far as the teacher recomendation, neither she nor the math teacher will discuss it apart from telling me to appeal. Both of them said that. "If you disagree, appeal."

 

[agnes!]

Well, it would be nice if someone would actually talk to me and tell me a reason other than she was absent a lot. Heck, I know that and even with her absenses, she is still pulling a B, so what is the problem.

My daughter said that the teachers can only recomend 2 children per class for honors, but that does not seem right either. In any event, one of the children who was recomended had lower grades than my DD and the only child in the class with higher grades than DD was not recomended. So, obviously, the recomendation is not grade-dependant.

That is INSANE. Only TWO kids per class for honors? AND it's all dependent on one person's opinion!?! I would be really p*ssed if I were you. Why should your kid suffer because the school system won't fully fund needed and appropriate programs for *all* its students? I HATE the way that students have to sometimes be "anointed" by whoever's in charge.
ugh and ack to that .

agnes!
PS - If it ain't the real deal, you must appeal .

 

[KelNottAt]

I agree, appeal it.

By the way, I find it intriguing the way 2 different Maryland school systems handle their honors programs. My DS will enter HS in Carroll County this fall(you're in Montgomery, right?).

At orientation night, a parent asked how kids are placed in honors. The principal responded that any child can sign up for virtually any class. In fact they encourage all kids to register for the most challenging schedule they think they can handle. She emphasized that the cirriculum doesn't change to fit the make-up of the class. So either a student can handle it or s/he can't. Grade-level kids who sign-up for honors must be willing to accept C's and D's. Take it or leave it; you pick your courses. (They keep the class sizes appropriate and just add more sections if necessary.)

In case you're not familiar with Carroll, we're between Baltimore and Frederick. Mostly rural, becoming suburban. In fact the entire population of the county (125,000 +/-) is smaller than just the number of kids in Montgomery schools (145,000 +/-). We're also a very "red" county, whereas Montgomery is quite "blue." As someone who grew up in Olney, I still encounter some degree of "culture shock" from time to time. This honors thing is just a mild example.

 

[golfgal]

From my post I have learned that a lot of it is terminology too. It sounds like the honors course is the top level course and if only 2 kids/class make it and she has had some B's in the past, that would probably eliminate her. The "honors" program at DS13's new high school is what we would have called College Prep classes and the AP classes are what your honors classes are. Find out what the course structure is. If there is a college prep level and a basic level to go along with the honors level, I wouldn't worry about it. If that is the only option for accelerated programing in the school, I would appeal it.

 

[golfgal]

I agree, appeal it.

By the way, I find it intriguing the way 2 different Maryland school systems handle their honors programs. My DS will enter HS in Carroll County this fall(you're in Montgomery, right?).

At orientation night, a parent asked how kids are placed in honors. The principal responded that any child can sign up for virtually any class. In fact they encourage all kids to register for the most challenging schedule they think they can handle. She emphasized that the cirriculum doesn't change to fit the make-up of the class. So either a student can handle it or s/he can't. Grade-level kids who sign-up for honors must be willing to accept C's and D's. Take it or leave it; you pick your courses. (They keep the class sizes appropriate and just add more sections if necessary.)

In case you're not familiar with Carroll, we're between Baltimore and Frederick. Mostly rural, becoming suburban. In fact the entire population of the county (125,000 +/-) is smaller than just the number of kids in Montgomery schools (145,000 +/-). We're also a very "red" county, whereas Montgomery is quite "blue." As someone who grew up in Olney, I still encounter some degree of "culture shock" from time to time. This honors thing is just a mild example.

Your school sounds more on the ball then the other. I WISH our high school did it this way, it would save me a lot of stress and aggravation over my DS.

 

[punkin]

I agree, appeal it.

By the way, I find it intriguing the way 2 different Maryland school systems handle their honors programs. My DS will enter HS in Carroll County this fall(you're in Montgomery, right?).

At orientation night, a parent asked how kids are placed in honors. The principal responded that any child can sign up for virtually any class. In fact they encourage all kids to register for the most challenging schedule they think they can handle. She emphasized that the cirriculum doesn't change to fit the make-up of the class. So either a student can handle it or s/he can't. Grade-level kids who sign-up for honors must be willing to accept C's and D's. Take it or leave it; you pick your courses. (They keep the class sizes appropriate and just add more sections if necessary.)

In case you're not familiar with Carroll, we're between Baltimore and Frederick. Mostly rural, becoming suburban. In fact the entire population of the county (125,000 +/-) is smaller than just the number of kids in Montgomery schools (145,000 +/-). We're also a very "red" county, whereas Montgomery is quite "blue." As someone who grew up in Olney, I still encounter some degree of "culture shock" from time to time. This honors thing is just a mild example.

Yes, I am in Montgomery. I hate it. Its is suburban hell, but that is a whole other thread. I would kind of prefer the Honors system you have. I have a huge headache about this whole thing.

 

[KelNottAt]

Your school sounds more on the ball then the other. I WISH our high school did it this way, it would save me a lot of stress and aggravation over my DS.

Yes, I like it, too. And I agree with your comment about the symantics of what honors means. For example, it sounds like honors at your schools is roughly equivalent to Advanced Placement (AP) at ours.

Specifically, at the HS my kids will go to there are 5 levels of courses:
Basic - for below grade level (freshman - senior) 4.0 scale
Academic - on grade level (freshman - senior) 4.0 scale
Honors - deep and accelerated, (freshman - junior) 4.5 scale
AP - college level prep for taking the College Board AP exam (juniors and seniors only), 5.0 scale
Transcripted - College courses taught in HS, (juniors and seniors only) no HS GPA, earn real college credits for any Md post-secondary institution.