Someone Check Out My '08 DDP Thinking...

[melomouse]

So I'm still an impressionable DIS'er, 1,000+ posts and all, and as always before a trip, I second guess myself.... , but here goes:

My kids and I have done FDP a year ago, DDP last August, and will do DDP for our late January trip. Kids are 16 and 11.

While I understand that "free" is best (it was a zoo!), we enjoyed it.
DDP was a great value for our family as I added up checks of up to $175 for a TS meal, and $38 for CS. Now we have DDP '08, in which there will be no appy and I must pay the tip -(don't really care how - I always tip in cash). Likely a "break even" deal for us, with maybe a $10-20/day savings here and there. Looking forward to it and got all my ADR's as I wanted them the day after I booked the room.

I used to bemoan the loss of my "spontaneity", "freedom" and "flexibility" with park touring plans and meals. I used to agonize over how much $ to bring and budget for meals. If some days the kids felt like trying something new, I would discourage it in case they didn't like it and I was "stuck" paying for something, only to have it go to "waste".

All you DDP lovers, you understand - some structure in the day, lots of flexibility, less stress - MORE freedom. Our family shifted gears with the advent of the DDP. Despite my occasional fantasies, WDW does NOT adapt for ME!!

So when I read these heated criticisms, defensive tones, rage with Disney and snide remarks by those who are now stunned by new changes - I just DO NOT GET IT

If the DDP works for you and yours, great! I read some threads and get great new ideas. If it doesn't - that's cool, too - I know it doesn't work for every family configuration and dining preference. But I am often left feeling as if there MUST be something I am not getting, because I don't understand the ranting.

There's more ranting about food then there is over on the Resorts Board. Is this the nature of a message board? I figure you want the plan, you share ideas. You're not sure, you ask advice. But why do folks continue to rant if they've decided it's not good for their family? And why be un-Disneylike??

Is it me.. am I missing something....? or is it the $12.00 cannoli???

 

[jenfur]

I agree, I have never been lucky enough to get a free dining trip, we usually go for the Holiday stuff and low crowds around Nov/Dec, but since buying vouchers when they were around and then trying DPP, I'll probably never do OOP again unless I have too. Its just too convenient for us. I am drooling over the Deluxe DDP for next year. I understand why some may not like the change, but some of us do.

 

[TLCDisney]

I completely agree with you. I think the problem is so many people have been getting it for free or really enjoying the freedom of everything being included. No one likes it when things are changed or scaled back but from what I was told by an insider, it is a costly program for Disney. Maybe it became too costly and they had to figure out how to scale it back a bit without making it obsolete? There have also been a lot of comments about it being too much food so maybe Disney listened?

 

[TLSnell1981]

I think most people are upset with the significant price increase of the DDP. No one likes price hikes! The "cost" of the plan has gone down....not with the appy and gratuity no longer included! It's actually a price hike of about $15 per day for an adult. I think it would have been better if Disney had done this in steps. Take away the appy and then 1-2 years later the gratuity. By the way, I've never gotten it for free.

 

[melomouse]

Snell- I guess the idea of "significant" is relative to geography and the cost of other items. In fact, I would say that if you decide the DDP has increased in price based on removal of a $6-10 appy plus the 18-20% tip, indeed it has "increased". Coming from a NY perspective on prices for dining and entertainment, I found the current DDP to be an AWESOME deal that I knew could not last for long.

Would have been terrific if it did. Would have been a bit like the kindly training parent also if Disney had changed things in "steps". But why on earth would that happen and how could anyone actually expect that??

I go to the gas pump twice a week and never know whether I'll find $2.83 a gallon or $3.39. Sometimes I wish they'd just leave it alone so I could stop being frustrated.

 

[FDV]

Snell- I guess the idea of "significant" is relative to geography and the cost of other items. In fact, I would say that if you decide the DDP has increased in price based on removal of a $6-10 appy plus the 18-20% tip, indeed it has "increased". Coming from a NY perspective on prices for dining and entertainment, I found the current DDP to be an AWESOME deal that I knew could not last for long.

Would have been terrific if it did. Would have been a bit like the kindly training parent also if Disney had changed things in "steps". But why on earth would that happen and how could anyone actually expect that??

I go to the gas pump twice a week and never know whether I'll find $2.83 a gallon or $3.39. Sometimes I wish they'd just leave it alone so I could stop being frustrated.

Say for example the restaurant bill is $85 for 2 adults and a child, That is what we have now. Before, you could add 3 appetizers, anywhere from $6- $13 each, lets use $8 to be conservative, that drives the tab up to $109. Add the 18%, for a total of $127 that Disney paid under the old plan. From $127 to $85 is a 33% increase in cost, and that is conservative. I would say that a 33% increase in one big jump is significant for any geography. Using your gas analogy, it would be like increasing from $2.40 to $3.20 over the weekend.

Under the old plan, it was a value for virtually all circumstances, now it is necessary to do some math to decide if you make out on the plan or not. For us (We generally eat human sized meals), it is no longer a value.

 

[melomouse]

And is it that people are angry about this?

My family's numbers are just not the same - that's why I think I was getting an awesome deal before and a fair deal now. Here's my breakdown on a given day last August: - $10 + $ 28 + $ 8 + $2 - Le Cellier, appy, entree,dessert, drink. That's $50 right there for my meal only - no tax, no tip, no CS, no snack. I paid less than $40/day. I would say that I was practically stealing the meal plan.

LOL - As to my gas analogy - if I see $2.40/gallon ever again, I will be shocked The other day I was near my workplace in a more touristy area and paid $3.39. That's what I mean by perspective.

It's as if the item has been taken off the sale price and back to a more reasonable price - so let's just all say "Sad the sale is over.." and move on. Just don't understand why all the outrage. Disney tells us the prices, we don't tell them. I can just see myself trying to vent to the non-attendant at my $3.39/ gallon station

If I can't afford the vacation, the Disney prices, the Dining Plan or anything else - I have to make a choice and different decisions. I might even have to .... give something up! Pay more! or else - God forbid - forego WDW!!!

 

[FDV]

And is it that people are angry about this?

My family's numbers are just not the same - that's why I think I was getting an awesome deal before and a fair deal now. Here's my breakdown on a given day last August: - $10 + $ 28 + $ 8 + $2 - Le Cellier, appy, entree,dessert, drink. That's $50 right there for my meal only - no tax, no tip, no CS, no snack. I paid less than $40/day. I would say that I was practically stealing the meal plan.

LOL - As to my gas analogy - if I see $2.40/gallon ever again, I will be shocked The other day I was near my workplace in a more touristy area and paid $3.39. That's what I mean by perspective.

It's as if the item has been taken off the sale price and back to a more reasonable price - so let's just all say "Sad the sale is over.." and move on. Just don't understand why all the outrage. Disney tells us the prices, we don't tell them. I can just see myself trying to vent to the non-attendant at my $3.39/ gallon station

If I can't afford the vacation, the Disney prices, the Dining Plan or anything else - I have to make a choice and different decisions. I might even have to .... give something up! Pay more! or else - God forbid - forego WDW!!!

Exactly my point. You had to do the math do decide, whereas before, it was a no-brainer. Yes, if you eat LeCellier type meals each day, then it's most likely a good deal, and by all means enjoy yourself.

But don't be surprised to see more restrictions coming because restaurants like LeCellier can't afford to keep losing money under the dining plan. Which is what will happen under the new plan, as most people with the plan will now concentrate on the most expensive restaurants/food in order to justify the DP.

In the end, the DP doesn't affect our decision to go or not, or to enjoy ourselves. It's just a simple economic decision about what plan to buy.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Snell- I guess the idea of "significant" is relative to geography and the cost of other items. In fact, I would say that if you decide the DDP has increased in price based on removal of a $6-10 appy plus the 18-20% tip, indeed it has "increased". Coming from a NY perspective on prices for dining and entertainment, I found the current DDP to be an AWESOME deal that I knew could not last for long.

Would have been terrific if it did. Would have been a bit like the kindly training parent also if Disney had changed things in "steps". But why on earth would that happen and how could anyone actually expect that??

I go to the gas pump twice a week and never know whether I'll find $2.83 a gallon or $3.39. Sometimes I wish they'd just leave it alone so I could stop being frustrated.

I think no matter where you live...math is math. The increase is the same percentage regardless of your "geography". I think you are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to Disney vs. Gasoline! This comes down to marketing and keeping your customers happy! We have no choice when it comes to gas, but you DON'T have to go to WDW! ( Okay...I must go to WDW at least once a year...but that is NOT the NORM!)

 

[2Princes2Princesses]

People will come to WDW and people will eat at WDW. They honestly do not have to offer a dining plan at all. They are not as concerned about value as they are about keeping people eating on property.

The basic plan still saves us a little bit of $$ and is convenient even if we break even.

The deluxe plan? Now that is a deal and a half if you do all TS.

I am a little bitter about the loss of the included tip, but I won't let it get me down. I am DVC, so I never got the free plan, but again, not going to harp on it.

 

[Colleen27]

But don't be surprised to see more restrictions coming because restaurants like LeCellier can't afford to keep losing money under the dining plan. Which is what will happen under the new plan, as most people with the plan will now concentrate on the most expensive restaurants/food in order to justify the DP.

I don't think that is a given at all. It just isn't practical to only do expensive/high value TS for most people, and I think the people who are very value-oriented will be more likely to skip the dining plan and go back to paying OOP and eating less TS than to try to get a deal out of the new plan.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I completely agree with you. I think the problem is so many people have been getting it for free or really enjoying the freedom of everything being included. No one likes it when things are changed or scaled back but from what I was told by an insider, it is a costly program for Disney. Maybe it became too costly and they had to figure out how to scale it back a bit without making it obsolete? There have also been a lot of comments about it being too much food so maybe Disney listened?

I tend to agree with you about the free thing. I've never gotten it for free. I can't imagine trying to get ADRs! I can't believe they had this program(for free) include gratutity! Disney has had some form of DP for years. The price was "hidden" in their packages, so we really didn't realize what it cost us. You could have no meals, 2 meals daily, 3 meals daily, watercraft included, etc. I think they realized they had to do the scale back on what was included or the "sticker" shock would discourage many people. I have been bringing my family to WDW since 1980. The increases are way above average inflation. I think I read that it takes an average family 7 YEARS to save for a trip to WDW! I think it's sad! This isn't what Walt had in mind. I mean, come on, what's it like $9 for a balloon? I still think someone in the marketing department has really blown it on the DDP.

 

[gina2000]

There's another issue that hasn't been addressed on this thread.

Portions have decreased dramatically. If you are on the DDP, it really didn't matter because you were getting a 3 course meal for a more than reasonable price. BUT if you are paying OOP, you must factor in ordering differently. We used to order one appetizer for our family of 3. I think we'd be okay with 2 appetizers for 3 people but chances are it will be 3 for 3 people. That's a huge increase in tab for my family. Also, we'd order 1 dessert for the 3 of us. Judging from the decrease in size of the desserts, we'd get a mouthful each. That would be fine for me but I have a 13 year old and a husband who both enjoy dessert. Another increase in the final tab.

So the changes in menus and DDP do affect all of us in more ways than you iniatally suspect. You now really need to look at portions as well as prices to determine what your breakeven will be.

 

[DCDisney]

And is it that people are angry about this?

My family's numbers are just not the same - that's why I think I was getting an awesome deal before and a fair deal now. Here's my breakdown on a given day last August: - $10 + $ 28 + $ 8 + $2 - Le Cellier, appy, entree,dessert, drink. That's $50 right there for my meal only - no tax, no tip, no CS, no snack. I paid less than $40/day. I would say that I was practically stealing the meal plan.

I think making dinner at Le Cellier work on either plan is easy. But what if you want to do a character breakfast at $19? Pizza,coke,cookie at CS at $10 and a mickey bar for snack at $2.50..... You spend about $33 that day for a plan that cost $38. Or even lunch at Le Cellier if your 10 year old wants the burger at 11.49? You really have to eat entrees that are more than $20 to even break even in 2008. If you eat dinner TS for each day and slightly more than average CS (no breakfasts!) you'll come out slightly ahead even in 2008 but with 2 credit meals, lunches, breakfasts there will be days that are hard to break even. It seems like WDW should be offering some type of incentive for DDP to eat Breakfast and Lunch rather than grabbing up all the dinner ADRs....or maybe they just think people won't even realize they are losing money?

Yvonne

 

[melomouse]

This is all helpful to me because I have realized that my touring and dining style has changed greatly since the advent of FDP, followed by paid DDP to upcoming '08.

Disney oughta hire me as one of their premier DDP marketing success stories!

What I see now is that although the great value was a selling point, we grew to love the "nice meal at the end of the day" thinking, the convenience of having everything prepaid , and trying new places already reserved with ADR's.
My kids are also eating like adults now - that makes a tremendous difference!

I used to cruise lots before we lost DH. I think I was used to the "all inclusive" feel I can now get on land at WDW.

Works for us -

 

[patsal]

The idea for me at least isn't good percieved value or bad percieved value rather it is the reality of how much I would really be spending. When the plan was all inclusive it was easy for me not to worry if I lost a few dollars her or there, more of convienience of having it all prepaid. Now that the plan does not fit the way we eat it isn't worth pre paying for me anymore. Sure the new plan is still a value if you eat that way--no apps, desserts, etc. But we prefer an appetizer so we dont' eat that way--I could go for the DxDDP but I don't want to spend all my vacation time "making it worth it". We don't do 3 TS meals per day and I wouldn't want to use that much time to eat--again just us, if it works for you go for it. The big deal, IMHO is the "real price increase" as others have said about 30%--I have experimented and do know we will spend much less by paying for everything OOP. No big deal to me either way. As the OP said it either works for you or it doesn't , personally I don't care how or if others use the DDP or the DxDDP. I do know that I wouldn't have cared so much if they had taken the gratuity away but left the appetizer, I wouldn't have cared if they brought the price up and left it all alone. Keeping in mind that the menus are less appealing and more standardized and the "prices" for many thngs are not realistic--I guess I believe if TGI Friday's (and most food isn't better than that quality anymore) can give me three courses for $12.99 so can Disney and even if they tacked on a little higher price tag just because of the location it would still not be making people think they are getting a better deal by putting an outrageous price tag on the food. I guess I'm thinking in terms of look what I spent for real, not look what I percieve myself as having saved.

 

[Minnie'sMom13]

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I read somewhere on one of the threads that there isn't a child's hamburger to be found, so in the event of sounding very naive, if you have the DDP does your child just order 'a hamburger' if there is one on the menu, say at a counter serv. meal?

 

[TLSnell1981]

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I read somewhere on one of the threads that there isn't a child's hamburger to be found, so in the event of sounding very naive, if you have the DDP does your child just order 'a hamburger' if there is one on the menu, say at a counter serv. meal?

If your child is 3-9 yrs old he/she must order from the child's menu if there is one available.

 

[Minnie'sMom13]

If your child is 3-9 yrs old he/she must order from the child's menu if there is on availible.

Thanks TLSnell for your help!

 

[TDC Nala]

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I read somewhere on one of the threads that there isn't a child's hamburger to be found, so in the event of sounding very naive, if you have the DDP does your child just order 'a hamburger' if there is one on the menu, say at a counter serv. meal?

There is a post on the regular restaurant board that says Cosmic Ray's now has a kids' cheeseburger.

And there was one place in Epcot that I know had a hamburger for kids - I want to say it was Tangierine Cafe but I am not sure about that.

But yes, if you are using child's credits on the dining plan, the order must be from the kids' menu if there is one available.