Some things I have been reading

[luvsJack]

Oh sorry. I discussed it in the other thread. I am an animal trainer at a zoo. I also have many, many friends that are employees at SW, as well as Animal Kingdom and zoos and aquariums around the country. We are a very small group - everyone knows somebody who knows somebody, etc.

What kind of animals do you train?

 

[sonnyjane]

What kind of animals do you train?

Birds for 4 years now. Prior I did a 4 month internship with dolphins and sea lions. Before that I worked on a whale-watching boat in WA following the Southern Resident orcas.

 

[luvsJack]

Birds for 4 years now. Prior I did a 4 month internship with dolphins and sea lions. Before that I worked on a whale-watching boat in WA following the Southern Resident orcas.

Interesting.

Are there animals in the zoos that you feel as strongly against being in captivity as the orcas and dolphins?

 

[sonnyjane]

Interesting.

Are there animals in the zoos that you feel as strongly against being in captivity as the orcas and dolphins?

Good question and I have to say, not per se, but there are places that do things properly and those that don't. The elephant enclosures at some facilities are markedly different then others. Some non-accredited zoos have no business even having a hedgehog. A large trend, and one we have been having monthly discussions about where I work, is changes in animal welfare - proper enclosure design, providing enrichment and natural foraging, creating opportunities to perform as many natural behaviors as possible, etc. Many of our animals are endangered, some critically so... Amur leopards less than 40 in the wild, and we have 2 of only 3-5 northern white rhinos left on earth. Anima like that can't be released ever. Most zoos only actively breed endangered species. The other difference discussed is that my facility is 100% not for profit. Every dime goes to conservation or research or back into the facility.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Birds for 4 years now. Prior I did a 4 month internship with dolphins and sea lions. Before that I worked on a whale-watching boat in WA following the Southern Resident orcas.

You mean we can see orca without going to an aquatic park? .

 

[sonnyjane]

You mean we can see orca without going to an aquatic park? .

Lol yes and they do way cooler "tricks"

 

[KBF]

Oh sorry. I discussed it in the other thread. I am an animal trainer at a zoo. I also have many, many friends that are employees at SW, as well as Animal Kingdom and zoos and aquariums around the country. We are a very small group - everyone knows somebody who knows somebody, etc.

Cool.

 

[fabulousfive]

To all of my anti-captivity friends on this board - the list below indicates what can be done! Keep talking!

Captive Facilities —Closed
January 10, 2010 by David Phillips, Save Japan Dolphins

Facility Name Location Status

Lerner Marine Lab Bimini, Bahamas Islands Closed
Marineland Adelaide, Australia Closed
Waragamba Dam Dolphinarium Waragamba, Australia Closed
Antwerp Zoo Dolphinarium Antwerp, Belgium Closed
Hagenbeck Zoo Dolphinarium Hamburg, Germany Closed
Kinder Zoo Dolphinarium Rapperswil, Switzerland Closed
Tel Aviv Dolphinarium Tel Aviv, Israel Closed
Luna Park Dolphinarium Tel Aviv, Israel Closed
Seaquarium San Andres, Colombia Closed
Ocean Reef Club Dolphinarium Key Largo, Florida Closed
Oklahoma City Zoo Dolphinarium Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Closed
Ocean World Ft. Lauderdale, Florida Closed
US Navy Dolphin Facility Key West, Florida Closed
Santos Amusement Park Santos, Brazil Closed
Dolphin Swim Program Buenos Aires Argentina Closed
Ocean Expo Dolphinarium Myrtle Beach, South Carolina Never Opened
Dolphin Swim Program Managua, Nicaragua Never Opened
Dolphin Swim Program Guatemala City, Guatemala Closed
Europapark Rust Rust, Germany Closed
Hansaland Dolphinarium Hamburg, Germany Closed
Holiday Park Dolphinarium Hossloch, Germany Closed
Phantasialand Dolphinarium Bruhl, Germany Closed
Paramount Parks (four parks) USA Closed
Wonderland Maple, Ontario, Canada Closed
Worlds of Fun Dolphinarium Kansas City, Missouri Closed
Knotts Berry Farm Dolphinarium Los Angeles, California Closed
Six Flags Dolphinarium Aurora, Ohio Closed
Marine Life Dolphinarium Sioux Falls, South Dakota Closed
Colorado Ocean Journey Denver, Colorado Never Opened
Virginia Marine Science Center Virginia Beach, Virginia Never Opened
Proposed Dolphinarium Maui, Hawaii Never Opened
Sealand Dolphinarium Victoria, BC Never Opened
Montreal Biodome Quebec, Canada No Belugas
Vancouver Aquarium Vancouver, Canada No Orca Show
Granby Zoo Quebec, Canada Never Opened
Dolphin Swim Park Les Arcadins Islands, Haiti Closed
Flamingo Land England Closed
Brighton Dolphinarium England Closed
Morecambe Dolphinarium England Closed
Windsor Safari Park England Closed
Moulin Rouge Nightclub Paris, France Closed
Seaorama Galveston, Texas Closed
Ocean World Ft. Lauderdale, Florida Closed
Cedar Fair Sandusky, Ohio Closed
Kings Island Kings Island, Ohio Closed
Six Flags over Texas Arlington, Texas Closed
Six Flags Mid-America Eureka, Missouri Closed
Astro-World of Houston Houston, Texas Closed
Six Flags Magic Mountain Los Angeles, California Closed
Paradise Acapulco, Mexico Closed
Centro Vacacional Oaxtepec Mexico Never Opened
Edmonton Shopping Mall Edmonton, Canada Closed
Louisville Marine Display Louisville, Kentucky Never Opened
Dolphin Discovery Antigua, West Indies Closed
Atlantida Dolphinarium St. Martin, Dutch West Indies Never Opened
Vodnjan Dolphinarium Vodnjan, Croatia Never Opened

Very cool list! I had no idea that our local amusement park had a dolphin show back in the day until I saw this list & asked my DH who grew up going & definitely remembers the show. This list is so encouraging to know that so many parks have closed these areas. Just the beginning of closures I feel!

 

[fabulousfive]

Oh and I bought my ticket for Blackfish! Never even heard of it until this thread & now I am attending the theater to see it. Very cool. Thanks everyone! I love Dis!

By the way, wish we could get Disney to stop the dolphin swimming on cruises & Epcot. Anyone tried writing to them about this issue?

 

[sonnyjane]

Oh and I bought my ticket for Blackfish! Never even heard of it until this thread & now I am attending the theater to see it. Very cool. Thanks everyone! I love Dis!

Be sure to come back and let us know what you think!

 

[lexandme]

Oh and I bought my ticket for Blackfish! Never even heard of it until this thread & now I am attending the theater to see it. Very cool. Thanks everyone! I love Dis!

By the way, wish we could get Disney to stop the dolphin swimming on cruises & Epcot. Anyone tried writing to them about this issue?

Please do write to DCL and tell them how you feel. I have done it and have also written to all of the major cruise lines. Last year I had the pleasure of sitting by the pool on the Dream and having a conversation with the MD from Castaway Cay. I told him how I felt and he agreed with me. Whenever we go to EPCOT I make sure I have a conversation about the 4 dolphins with as many trainers and employees at the Living Seas as I can. I have sent letters off to WDW and the Disney Co. Protesting their captivity. The louder we protest the better our chances of seeing change!
And please do let us know what you think about "Blackfish".

 

[sonnyjane]

Please do write to DCL and tell them how you feel. I have done it and have also written to all of the major cruise lines. Last year I had the pleasure of sitting by the pool on the Dream and having a conversation with the MD from Castaway Cay. I told him how I felt and he agreed with me. Whenever we go to EPCOT I make sure I have a conversation about the 4 dolphins with as many trainers and employees at the Living Seas as I can. I have sent letters off to WDW and the Disney Co. Protesting their captivity. The louder we protest the better our chances of seeing change!
And please do let us know what you think about "Blackfish".

Lex, you're under no obligation to answer obviously, but while I understand speaking with management or writing letters to corporate, what kind of "conversations" are you having with the trainers that you see? I just wonder because as an animal trainer myself, if someone were to approach me after a show and tell me "I just saw a film you should watch", that would be one thing, but if they were to say "What you're doing is wrong, you should be ashamed of yourself", that's entirely another lol. I'm open to discussion - in fact I just had a pretty good one with a teen boy that was interrogating me the other day lol - but it must be done respectfully. I'm not saying you're not doing that, just keep in mind that the dolphin trainers you speak to don't have much influence over the situation and the most you can hope to do is change their mind, get them to quit their job, and spread the word, but they can't individually do anything about stopping the dolphin program other than speak out against it. If you're just speaking to them to encourage them to educate themselves about the situation, that's great, I just do hope it's done politely. We get PETA folks at the zoo every so often and they definitely need to work on their delivery.

 

[lexandme]

Lex, you're under no obligation to answer obviously, but while I understand speaking with management or writing letters to corporate, what kind of "conversations" are you having with the trainers that you see? I just wonder because as an animal trainer myself, if someone were to approach me after a show and tell me "I just saw a film you should watch", that would be one thing, but if they were to say "What you're doing is wrong, you should be ashamed of yourself", that's entirely another lol. I'm open to discussion - in fact I just had a pretty good one with a teen boy that was interrogating me the other day lol - but it must be done respectfully. I'm not saying you're not doing that, just keep in mind that the dolphin trainers you speak to don't have much influence over the situation and the most you can hope to do is change their mind, get them to quit their job, and spread the word, but they can't individually do anything about stopping the dolphin program other than speak out against it. If you're just speaking to them to encourage them to educate themselves about the situation, that's great, I just do hope it's done politely. We get PETA folks at the zoo every so often and they definitely need to work on their delivery.

Sonnyjane, I learned a long time ago you catch more bees with honey...... Gentle persuasion works best.
I usually approach each individual and request information. Why are you doing these trials, what do you hope to learn, what have you learned, what are you learning from these dolphins that you cannot learn in the wild, will your data be the same collected from animals in captivity as data collected in the wild, what do you do with this information,etc. At the "dolphin circus" i ask general questions to get the conversation started, how many animals do you have, what do they eat, are they easy to train, etc. Through the course of the conversation I always come clean and let whomever I'm speaking with know I am opposed to cetacean captivity. Through the years I have had conversations with staff at Marineland, Canada, Sea World,Ohio, Dolphinaris in Cozumel, EPCOT and Chankanaab National Park. By the way, Marineland Canada is the worst.
I believe the "trainers" at EPCOT are usually student interns and they can't answer my questions. Last year I was able to speak to a biologist. I received typical "rehearsed" answers. I did question him about conditions and let him know, politely, that I am opposed to captivity. He said he understood but did cut our conversation short at that point. I also always ask if they know if the animals are being considered for rehab, release or retirement.
Sometimes PETA are their own worst enemy. They have done a lot of good but lately have reduced themselves to cheap tricks and stupid promotions. I hope they get themselves back on track. I'm a vegetarian and a bit of a radical but even I don't want to hear a lot of what they are now promoting!

 

[sonnyjane]

Sonnyjane, I learned a long time ago you catch more bees with honey...... Gentle persuasion works best.
I usually approach each individual and request information. Why are you doing these trials, what do you hope to learn, what have you learned, what are you learning from these dolphins that you cannot learn in the wild, will your data be the same collected from animals in captivity as data collected in the wild, what do you do with this information,etc. At the "dolphin circus" i ask general questions to get the conversation started, how many animals do you have, what do they eat, are they easy to train, etc. Through the course of the conversation I always come clean and let whomever I'm speaking with know I am opposed to cetacean captivity. Through the years I have had conversations with staff at Marineland, Canada, Sea World,Ohio, Dolphinaris in Cozumel, EPCOT and Chankanaab National Park. By the way, Marineland Canada is the worst.
I believe the "trainers" at EPCOT are usually student interns and they can't answer my questions. Last year I was able to speak to a biologist. I received typical "rehearsed" answers. I did question him about conditions and let him know, politely, that I am opposed to captivity. He said he understood but did cut our conversation short at that point. I also always ask if they know if the animals are being considered for rehab, release or retirement.
Sometimes PETA are their own worst enemy. They have done a lot of good but lately have reduced themselves to cheap tricks and stupid promotions. I hope they get themselves back on track. I'm a vegetarian and a bit of a radical but even I don't want to hear a lot of what they are now promoting!

Thanks for that answer. You are correct, a lot of folks you may encounter at EPCOT are likely doing the dolphin internship program. I know a few people that have done it but it was quite a while (more than a decade) ago. I know nothing about the program now so can't comment further. PETA has its own dirty secrets that many don't know about... For example secretly euthanizing hundreds of animals that people surrender to what they believed were shelters because some PETA extremists don't believe in having pets (they are animals in captivity after
all). I support animal rights. I don't support PETA.

 

[sonnyjane]

Lex, you won't like this: http://m.ksat.com/news/beluga-whale-dies-at-sea-world/-/15126192/21645210/-/83bwxt/-/index.html

 

[lexandme]

Lex, you won't like this: http://m.ksat.com/news/beluga-whale-dies-at-sea-world/-/15126192/21645210/-/83bwxt/-/index.html

It just breaks my heart. I wonder what the necropsy will say. Poor thing never knew freedom, sea water, the rhythm of the waves, extended family and miles and miles of open sea to explore.

The Taiji dolphin hunt begins in 7 days. I pray it all ends soon.

 

[fabulousfive]

It just breaks my heart. I wonder what the necropsy will say. Poor thing never knew freedom, sea water, the rhythm of the waves, extended family and miles and miles of open sea to explore.

The Taiji dolphin hunt begins in 7 days. I pray it all ends soon.

On the same evening I see Blackfish this is being reported on the news. So sad. Maybe people truly will start questioning all this. I will give my thoughts on the movie later when I have time.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Bad stuff. Really horrible. I can't believe that after The Cove received worldwide attention and won the Academy Award, this insane dolphin slaughter is still happening. That makes me depressed to think that Blackfish might not do anything to change things either. Sigh.

 

[fabulousfive]

Blackfish is a film that should be seen by all.

I thought it was crafted in a thoughtful way. I love how I could identify with the trainers & how they bring you on this journey -- from first feeling excitement being at Sea World to learning how poorly the orcas are kept & all the terrible things that occur. It saddened me to think that some stayed toward the end of their career there because they realized the orcas' horrible life & just wanted to help. I like how in contrast to Sea World, the other marine park featured confessed how they realized containing these beautiful creatures just didn't feel right. The absolute saddest part of the film to me is when Sea World took the baby away from his mommy & sent him to another Sea World. And then I just felt sick when they are recorded on film telling lie after lie.

My biggest takeaway is from when one of the trainers said he didn't want his young child to grow up seeing whales or dolphins in captivity & thinking that's okay. But that our children can see these magnificent creatures in the wild instead. I figure not only can I boycott marine parks, zoos, circuses, etc, but I can teach my kids & the next generation to do the same & maybe from that we can promote change.

I'd actually like to do more action with my kids to save the whales & dolphins so if there are any ideas, please share. I know September 1st is Japan Dolphin Day & there are protests, but there are none in the area. I thought we can get the tshirts & wear them, make posters, & spread the word. I'd love if anyone else knows of any more formal events.

 

[sonnyjane]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've seen many documentaries and still feel confident saying that this film isn't nearly as biased or harsh as other films or as some that haven't seen the film think it is. The bottom line is, the truth hurts. The things they are discussing are documented and many have been captured on film. There are many non-employee witnesses. It's very hard to argue that it's not true.