some random complaining

[dianeschlicht]

Now that I've had a chance to read the whole thread, I agree that Disney owes us NOTHING for park admissions, but I'm extremely glad they give us the $100 off AP discount! I agree with Chuck that Disney isnt' going to give a discount that doesn't directly benefit them. No way does giving a discount on a 10 non-expiring ticket benefit Disney. If you use a 10 day ticket over the course of 3 years, Disney isn't really getting much out of it. Yet, if they give you the AP discount, you'll use it for the convenience and spend more time and money in the parks.

I'm quite sure Disney does a lot of tracking of those AP usages too. They know every time you go through a turnstyle, and I'm sure we are on that "multi-use" list somewhere in Disney's files, because we usually go into multiple parks a day with our passes. It's not unusual for us to hit 2-3 parks in one day and up to 28 days on an AP. We figure it's a win win for both us and Disney! I don't see how a discount on a 10 day nonexiring hopper can be a win for Disney if you use it over 2-3 years.

 

[BeesKnees]

But I still don't think people that buy 10 day non-expiring tickets and spread them over 2 or 3 years will go into the parks more often if they receive a discount.

I don't agree. I think it would be more likely for someone to go to a park on an unscheduled park day if burning a day wasn't so expensive.

I am growing weary of this debate but I don't think my point of view is baseless. I look at it like buying a new vehicle. If I am mostly content with my current vehicle you are going to have to make me a sweet deal to get me to purchase. I am mostly content with the way we vacation now if Disney wants me to spend more they will have to make it a sweeter deal. It is not a demand, it is just the way of things. When/if there are many many people like me Disney will have to deal with us until then if Disney is happy with the status quo then we will go on as normal.

It is just like going to the movies. If you go very rarely getting something from the concession stand is part of the experience. If you go all the time you sneak in your own snacks and drinks.

Personally, I would rather give my money to disney. I like to give back to companies that take good care of me. However, I can't enjoy myself on vacation if I feel like I am getting mugged at every corner. Luckily, now that is not the case. The park tickets still seem to costly but when you ration your days over many vacations the cost per trip is a little easier to swallow.

 

[Ramsfan28]

Now that I've had a chance to read the whole thread, I agree that Disney owes us NOTHING for park admissions, but I'm extremely glad they give us the $100 off AP discount! I agree with Chuck that Disney isnt' going to give a discount that doesn't directly benefit them. No way does giving a discount on a 10 non-expiring ticket benefit Disney. If you use a 10 day ticket over the course of 3 years, Disney isn't really getting much out of it. Yet, if they give you the AP discount, you'll use it for the convenience and spend more time and money in the parks.

I'm quite sure Disney does a lot of tracking of those AP usages too. They know every time you go through a turnstyle, and I'm sure we are on that "multi-use" list somewhere in Disney's files, because we usually go into multiple parks a day with our passes. It's not unusual for us to hit 2-3 parks in one day and up to 28 days on an AP. We figure it's a win win for both us and Disney! I don't see how a discount on a 10 day nonexiring hopper can be a win for Disney if you use it over 2-3 years.

This I agree with 100%.

I am thankful for the AP discount and since I have bought an AP it has made me want to visit Disney more. I bought the pass last September and in a 12 month span I will get to WDW in 3 seperate trips. Once I renew my AP's during my trip next month, I will try to ensure I get 2-3 trips on that pass as well.

This is a win for me since I get a great deal of enjoyment at the World and it is a win for Disney since I spend money at their restaraunts and shops.

 

[TisBit]

I don't agree. I think it would be more likely for someone to go to a park on an unscheduled park day if burning a day wasn't so expensive.

I am growing weary of this debate but I don't think my point of view is baseless.

I don't think your point of view is pointless, but I don't think it really translates into increased profits from Disney. Even if DVC members got a 10-20% discount on MYW tickets, it is not such a savings that they will really be willing to burn extra days on a whim. The difference between a park day being $30 a day with a multiday ticke and $24 for a discounted ticket, the truth is it is still expensive and you won't just pop into a park for the heck of it because it costs you a little less.

Now, I think that is why AP's are different. If you already put the money out and have unlimited admission, well yeah, you might jump into a park on the spur of a moment unplanned because it costs you nothing. While you are there you might go to CS for lunch or buy some merchandise, etc.

 

[BeesKnees]

I don't think your point of view is pointless, but I don't think it really translates into increased profits from Disney. Even if DVC members got a 10-20% discount on MYW tickets, it is not such a savings that they will really be willing to burn extra days on a whim. The difference between a park day being $30 a day with a multiday ticke and $24 for a discounted ticket, the truth is it is still expensive and you won't just pop into a park for the heck of it because it costs you a little less.

Now, I think that is why AP's are different. If you already put the money out and have unlimited admission, well yeah, you might jump into a park on the spur of a moment unplanned because it costs you nothing. While you are there you might go to CS for lunch or buy some merchandise, etc.

I don't know. I think the cheaper you make it the less people will feel the need to ration it. Instead of spreading a 10 day over 4 visits you might feel it is okay to spread it over 3.

The APs just don't work for us. We used to get them but we weren't getting enough value for them. There are times I wish we still had the freedom of an AP but the 10 day just makes more sense.

 

[Brian Noble]

I think the cheaper you make it the less people will feel the need to ration it.

Of course, that's true. The question is, what's the marginal rate of use? If you make it a little bit cheaper, do a *lot* of people use it for shorter "days", or only a few? Disney knows---they measure the heck out of everything---but all we have is indirect observation to guess.

However, we've got a pretty strong clue. Disney very consciously changed their entire ticketing model some years ago from the old PH/PHP tickets to the new MYW model. In the old PH/PHP model, additional days after the fourth were pretty expensive, but they also never expired. In the new MYW model, additional days after the fourth are essentially free---*but* they expire. And, it's obvious that for $5, people have no issue going into a park for an hour or two on their departure day---something almost no one did with the old PH/PHPs. The MYW pricing change was clearly designed to increase the length of stay and visits per guest generally, and to capture those partial days in particular.

Furthermore, we get a little bit more information from the way pricing in MYW has changed over time. To keep them for later, you have to pay a little more. Disney started out charging relatively little for that privilege, but over time, the cost of the no-expire option has grown the *fastest* of anything. That suggests to me people weren't "burning" them, but saving them---and Disney wants to capture the value obtained by folks who are doing that saving.

The simplest summary of the position I'm taking is: if you assume Disney knows what they are doing, their actions tell us that it is not in their interest to discount *non-expiring* days in the parks in any material way.

Edited to add: It's also interesting that Disneyland doesn't sell *any* non-expiring tickets, ever. I suspect that WDW may end up going in that direction, as well.

 

[BeesKnees]

Of course, that's true. The question is, what's the marginal rate of use? If you make it a little bit cheaper, do a *lot* of people use it for shorter "days", or only a few? Disney knows---they measure the heck out of everything---but all we have is indirect observation to guess.

However, we've got a pretty strong clue. Disney very consciously changed their entire ticketing model some years ago from the old PH/PHP tickets to the new MYW model. In the old PH/PHP model, additional days after the fourth were pretty expensive, but they also never expired. In the new MYW model, additional days after the fourth are essentially free---*but* they expire. And, it's obvious that for $5, people have no issue going into a park for an hour or two on their departure day---something almost no one did with the old PH/PHPs. The MYW pricing change was clearly designed to increase the length of stay and visits per guest generally, and to capture those partial days in particular.

Furthermore, we get a little bit more information from the way pricing in MYW has changed over time. To keep them for later, you have to pay a little more. Disney started out charging relatively little for that privilege, but over time, the cost of the no-expire option has grown the *fastest* of anything. That suggests to me people weren't "burning" them, but saving them---and Disney wants to capture the value obtained by folks who are doing that saving.

The simplest summary of the position I'm taking is: if you assume Disney knows what they are doing, their actions tell us that it is not in their interest to discount *non-expiring* days in the parks in any material way.

Edited to add: It's also interesting that Disneyland doesn't sell *any* non-expiring tickets, ever. I suspect that WDW may end up going in that direction, as well.

But the question remains how do DVCers play into this and will Disney eventually have to deal with us differently? I know what the status quo is today. I know that as long as they can charge ridiculous sums of money for groceries, for instance, they will. But I have to think that over time all of those DVC owners are going to smarten up and as disney is tracking us will realize we are becoming an untapped market.

I can only speak for us but our response to the higher ticket prices has been proportional. The higher they go the less we go. If they eventually do away with nonexp tickets we will go even less and probably look to HHI and VB more. Parkless trips will become more commonplace.

The one thing they miss the boat on entirely is assisting us to bring family. I may not be spending nearly as much as I used to but when I bring family they go nuts. Going back to my theatre analogy they only get to go once in awhile so spending money to make it "special" is part of the experience.

 

[Eventer98]

I have read this whole thread and what I have to say is this....I guess I don't even blink at the cost. We are able to go to Disney twice a year due to DVC. Yes, making the payments has been a struggle some months but in the end it has been worth it. Buying the AP's wasn't always timed right with bills but we made it work. I know..we could have limited it to one trip but DH insisted he wanted a reward for working so hard. I am grateful that Disney has a timeshare program b/c I looked into the other ones out there and they were not for us at all. I am grateful they offer $100 off the AP's. I am grateful they offer 10% off at TEB and WCC (places we love to eat) b/c TIW is not something that would work for us right now..we love the DDP! I am grateful that Disney lets DVC'ers have the DDP! I know that DVC is $$...especially after all the interest we will pay. But what a great company; what a great place to vacation. And for us it's the only place we want to vacation right now so it works. For me..I don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Whatever they want to offer to us is awesome..it's all a bonus.

 

[went503]

Phew i just got throught this post. Let me first say that my fiancee and I are new DVC members and welcome whatever discount Disney wants to give. I look at it this way if your gonna go your gonna pay for it regardless. So if there is a discount i welcome it.

To other points i have read about incentives etc.... There are still promo's out there that you can watch for. For instance i just purchased DVC in January and i recieved 8 non-expiring AP vouchers. Now if i plan those right i wont have to buy park tickets for possibly up to 16 years. We have been very fortunate with tickets as she is a former CM so we never had to pay for tickets. But with her store closing she lost her job and now we are trying to get back in with Disney.

However I still feel for myself as a DVC member if i had to buy AP's which i will eventually its still a good investment if you make atleast 2 trips a year with atleast 4/5 days each trip. With food discounts/merchandise discounts with the AP the savings are there. Now i agree that we do get smarter with our visits and Disney can fizzle out. I have done a whole disney vacation by not going into one park. Pools, spa's and relaxation was what we were shooting for. I know what i had going into it so i cant ***** about it now, we did buy into disney because we love it didnt we. It could be a whole lot worse. Be thankful!!!

 

[Brian Noble]

But I have to think that over time all of those DVC owners are going to smarten up and as disney is tracking us will realize we are becoming an untapped market.

Because DVC owners are a captive audience, it seems to me that they are *less* likely to be sensitive to price increases, not more. They are already committed, and by virtue of spending tens of thousands of dollars on a lodging purchase, view it as a sunk cost with a small marginal addition. I think if you look around at the other Members, you'll find that your proportional reaction is the exception, not the rule. Do most DVCers over time visit the parks a little less? Sure, because familiarity breeds contempt. But, the MYW pricing is set up so that Disney still sees almost the same revenue from a Member who only visits the parks every other day.

More broadly, this is just a variant of the same thing we hear every year. "How can Disney keep raising these prices? Eventually people will stop coming!" It's never happened yet---even over the past two years, which still had ticket increases despite being literally the worst economic conditions in decades. If I were a betting man, my money would be on Disney going forward. Ultimately, the evidence just isn't with you.

I may not be spending nearly as much as I used to but when I bring family they go nuts.

That's a fair observation. But, have you noticed that on the cash side, the better discounts have been packages that require tickets? There's a reason for that---those are targeted to the casual visitor, *not* the habitual return guest with an AP. It's an entire portfolio. DVC (and to a lesser extend, the AP) builds the captive repeat audience that serves as a buffer against swings in demand. Package promotions target the infrequent guests who are big spenders. Clever, that Mouse.

But, hey, at the end of the day, you could be right, and I could be wrong. Only time will tell. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for those non-expiring ticket discounts, though.

 

[BeesKnees]

Because DVC owners are a captive audience, it seems to me that they are *less* likely to be sensitive to price increases, not more. They are already committed, and by virtue of spending tens of thousands of dollars on a lodging purchase,

You might be right. It could be that most every DVCer will always view the parks as a requirement to enjoy a vacation at Disney. 6-7 years ago I would have agreed. I guess my point is that time changed us it could change others.

But, hey, at the end of the day, you could be right, and I could be wrong. Only time will tell. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for those non-expiring ticket discounts, though.

I won't. I also won't be holding my breath that we will eventually get deeper discounts on groceries or souvenirs.

And don't get me wrong. I completely understand. Their job is to separate me from as much money as they can. I get it. I do the same with my clients. But just like my clients, my job is to try to spend money where I feel I get reasonable value.

All this was in defense of the OP who left shortly after starting this thread. At the end of the day I understand his frustration. I don't agree they owe us something and I am certainly not mad at them but I understand. We have adapted so we would not have to be upset with the money spent there.

 

[DaveH]

I understand the OP's frustration. My guess is we may not see a MYW discount. The ticket discount when we bought in 2001 was the Length of Stay tickets. You could drop one day and later a max of 2. Everyone who got the tickets had to be for the length of the reservation, even if they were there for less time. During many surveys at the time it seems most DVC members ask for what we now have. If we send suggestions to DVD they can ask WDW Co for that discount. If WDW Co does offer it to us, I suspect it would be along the lines of length of stay and not non expiring option.

 

[adminjedi]

hmmmm, I see the discussion is still going....I think I'll just go look at my AP again. Ahhhh, can't wait to be in the parks!

 

[went503]

same here my AP looks good right now. Come on May!!!!