Socialism at work

[ticktock]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090216/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_referendum

Not here. Yet. Chavez "voted" in as dictator for life. OK they just laid the ground work. Anyone study Roman history?

 

[Sheree Bobbins]

Unfortunately, "No" I didn't study Roman history. But the situation at hand seems to a march toward a dictatorship. Scary.

 

[Mr.MouseFan]

Not here. Yet.

Oh Please.

 

[Cool-Beans]

South American political crap - you start studying their histories and current situations and it is like opening Pandora's Box.

But it is interesting.

Those poor people.

 

[PoppyMcTwist]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090216/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_referendum

Not here. Yet. Chavez "voted" in as dictator for life. OK they just laid the ground work. Anyone study Roman history?

"Beware the Ides of March"

(accepting the title of "dictator for life" is what sealed Caesar's fate)

 

[CapeCodTenor]

I heard about that this morning, and all I can say is, they'll get what they voted for. At some point people are going to realize that they made a mistake and by that time it'll be too late.

 

[Golf4food]

I don't see the problem. It has worked out great for Cuba hasn't it? The (former) Soviet Union? France under Napoleon? Greece under Alexander? Persia under Xerxes?

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

Nobody said a word when the USA was propping up dictators all over Latin America. At least this guy Chavez is putting the issue to a vote. We put our guys in under the threat, and the use, of violence.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I heard about that this morning, and all I can say is, they'll get what they voted for. At some point people are going to realize that they made a mistake and by that time it'll be too late.

Are you talking about the current situation in the US or Venezuela?

 

[Planogirl]

Oh please. This would all be funny if I didn't suspect that many were serious.

 

[loco4dis]

Nobody said a word when the USA was propping up dictators all over Latin America. At least this guy Chavez is putting the issue to a vote. We put our guys in under the threat, and the use, of violence.

Here's what one Venezuelan voter said:

"I voted yes because I didn't want to face reprisals for voting no," said Moreno. "People lose jobs because they don't agree with the Chavez regime.

"Chavez is very authoritarian," Moreno said. "He needs to be more democratic. Things have to be done his way or the highway."

Vote for Chavez or lose your job? That sounds like a threat.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/62210.html

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

Here's what one Venezuelan voter said:



Vote for Chavez or lose your job? That sounds like a threat.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/62210.html

There is no comparison. On the one hand Chavez supporters are allegedly threatening the jobs of those who support Chavez' opponents. On the other hand we killed thousands of Nicaraguans to get our guys in power there. Lets face facts, we have no moral right to complain about Chavez.

 

[Anewman]

There is no comparison. On the one hand Chavez supporters are allegedly threatening the jobs of those who support Chavez' opponents. On the other hand we killed thousands of Nicaraguans to get our guys in power there. Lets face facts, we have no moral right to complain about Chavez.

I get what you are saying but do not agree with the logic...

Since the US has a history of doing bad things(in your opinion), we do not have the moral right to complain?

Sorry, but IMO that gives us more of a right to complain. We need to learn from our mistakes as well as learn from the mistakes of others.

And for all the "concerned Americans"... Obama read to kids at an elementary school the other day, please tell us how that reminds you of Hitler or Chavez. Yes I know you are just scared, and making an observation.

 

[moburg]

I get what you are saying but do not agree with the logic...

Since the US has a history of doing bad things(in your opinion), we do not have the moral right to complain?

Sorry, but IMO that gives us more of a right to complain. We need to learn from our mistakes as well as learn from the mistakes of others.

And for all the nut jobs... Obama read to kids at an elementary school the other day, please tell us how that reminds you of Hitler or Chavez. Yes I know you are just scared, and making an observation.

Bush read books to school children too. That never stopped the numerous (false) comparisons to Hitler. In fact, I almost think it was a prerequisite to criticizing Bush. Hitler had to be worked in there somewhere.

 

[Anewman]

Bush read books to school children too. That never stopped the numerous (false) comparisons to Hitler. In fact, I almost think it was a prerequisite to criticizing Bush. Hitler had to be worked in there somewhere.

Difference is in what exactly is drawing those comparisons to Hitler, I dont expect you to admit there is a huge difference. But I will agree that any comparisons of Bush to ANY dictator are uncalled for.

Kids do a stomp dance routine with an obama theme
Obama would like to increase size of Peace corps and community service as a whole
Kids sing a song about Obama
Obama is popular
etc...

Bush invades and Occupies are foreign nation.
Bush does not rule out torturing prisoners of war.
Bush supports holding prisoners without evidence or trials
Bush supports wire taps without showing just cause in court
etc...

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

I get what you are saying but do not agree with the logic...

Since the US has a history of doing bad things(in your opinion), we do not have the moral right to complain?

Sorry, but IMO that gives us more of a right to complain. We need to learn from our mistakes as well as learn from the mistakes of others.

And for all the "concerned Americans"... Obama read to kids at an elementary school the other day, please tell us how that reminds you of Hitler or Chavez. Yes I know you are just scared, and making an observation.

People's freedom comes first. Venezualens have a right to elect their leaders. We should not get involved. History shows that when we get involved, more often than not the people of the region are hurt rather than helped.

 

[Anewman]

People's freedom comes first. Venezualens have a right to elect their leaders. We should not get involved. History shows that when we get involved, more often than not the people of the region are hurt rather than helped.

It depends on your definition of "get involved", voicing our stance is totally acceptable and needed in my opinion.

Sending in contras, that is a different story.

 

[loco4dis]

People's freedom comes first. Venezualens have a right to elect their leaders. We should not get involved. History shows that when we get involved, more often than not the people of the region are hurt rather than helped.

That doesn't mean we have to agree that this is a legitimate election if voters were threatened and intimidated, right? I don't think anyone here is saying "we" should get involved, but rather that many of us find this election somewhat suspicious. Chavez's people man the polling places. Chavez's people count the votes. Chavez controls the legislature, the courts, the media, the oil (which is 94% of their economy), etc. It doesn't sound like democracy in action; it sounds like fraud and fascism. Of course it's their country to take back when they decide they've had enough, but I think those who favor democracy there and will eventually have to shed blood for its return would like to know that some of us to the north are pulling for them — and that we "get it," that this isn't a democracy but an emerging dictatorship. Some of "us" out here will just never, ever accept the argument that human beings "choose" tyranny. That's all.

 

[manning]

Thank you President Carter.

That clown went there and said the elections were fair back when there was a chance to have him voted out. We had to chance to be rid of him, but Carter had to interfere.

 

[hiwaygal]

That doesn't mean we have to agree that this is a legitimate election if voters were threatened and intimidated, right? I don't think anyone here is saying "we" should get involved, but rather that many of us find this election somewhat suspicious. Chavez's people man the polling places. Chavez's people count the votes. Chavez controls the legislature, the courts, the media, the oil (which is 94% of their economy), etc. It doesn't sound like democracy in action; it sounds like fraud and fascism. Of course it's their country to take back when they decide they've had enough, but I think those who favor democracy there and will eventually have to shed blood for its return would like to know that some of us to the north are pulling for them — and that we "get it," that this isn't a democracy but an emerging dictatorship. Some of "us" out here will just never, ever accept the argument that human beings "choose" tyranny. That's all.

I agree...

And the vote was VERY close. What about the 47% who DIDN'T vote for this? Seems to me that nearly half the voters didn't get what they wanted so it's just too bad for them, right?

And whether or not anyone wants to admit it, there ARE parallels here to our own internal struggles.