Social security discussion

The history of spousal SS is interesting. Some snippets (of a long, drawn out explanation! :faint: ):

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v67n4/67n4p1.html

It is important to note that spouse and widow benefit rules have been modified over time. The 1939 Social Security Amendments originally established a spouse benefit equal to one-half of the retired-worker benefit of the present spouse and a survivor's benefit equal to three-fourths of the deceased spouse's worker benefit. Benefits were extended to divorced widows with children and dependent widowers in the 1950 amendments. In 1965, divorced wives and surviving divorced spouses without children became eligible for payments, but there was a dependency and a 20-year length of marriage requirement.Congress raised widow(er)s benefits in 1972 from 82.5 percent of the deceased worker's benefit to 100 percent (Martin and Weaver 2005). In 1977, the length of marriage requirement was reduced from 20 years (240 months) to 10 years (120 months), and remarried women were allowed to receive a regular survivor benefit from the deceased spouse's record if the remarriage occurred after age 60 (age 50 if disabled).

To date, Social Security spouse and widow benefits remain a major source of income for elderly women.

The retirement security of women is a clear concern among policymakers and retirement analysts. Although women's economic situation at old age has improved greatly over the past 30 years, women are still more likely than men to experience old-age poverty; partly because women earn less over their lifetimes and live longer than men. In 2004, the poverty rate for women aged 65 or older was 12 percent, compared with 7 percent for men.


Trends in women's retirement income have been a longstanding point of interest in the retirement literature, and Social Security spouse and widow benefits constitute an important source of income for many aged women. Since marital history affects women's potential eligibility for spouse and widow benefits, it is important to understand changes in marital trends in the context of Social Security rules, particularly as the leading edge of the baby-boom cohort begins retiring.

While caution should be used in interpreting differences across data sources, this article highlights both important changes and continuities in women's potential eligibility for spouse and widow benefits since 1985. On the one hand, despite important structural changes in marital patterns such as the "retreat from marriage" (Goldstein and Kenney 2001; Waite 1995), over three-fourths of women aged 40 to 69 in the 2001 SIPP already had marital histories that assured them the option for spouse or widow benefits at retirement. On the other hand, trends reveal a downward shift in the share of women potentially eligible for spouse or widow benefits in future years due to changing marital patterns among baby boomers. Changes are principally evident for the Middle Age cohort (aged 40–49), which had a significantly higher share of never-married and divorced women with shorter marriages in 2001 than in 1985.

As a whole, this article contributes to our understanding of sociodemographic trends affecting the Social Security program and distributional outcomes of its beneficiary population. Most aged women qualify for Social Security benefits as wives or widows today. However, a growing tendency toward never marrying, along with shorter marriages before divorce, among the younger wave of baby boomers may foreshadow a decline in the proportion of women that will be eligible for spouse or widow benefits in future years. These trends could have an important effect on the sources, and in some instances adequacy, of retirement income for some women, as well as the sociodemographic profile of the overall beneficiary population for Social Security."


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I'm curious, mefordis, if you have ever looked at what your own SS would be? I just looked mine up, even having retired at age 28, if I collect at 67 I would get about $900 a month, if I wait until 70 I would get $1100-ish. So while it is less than about 1500 spousal benefit, it is higher than I thought.
 
I'm curious, mefordis, if you have ever looked at what your own SS would be? I just looked mine up, even having retired at age 28, if I collect at 67 I would get about $900 a month, if I wait until 70 I would get $1100-ish. So while it is less than about 1500 spousal benefit, it is higher than I thought.

How do I look that up?
 

I believe if my spouse dies I get his FULL amount then (not just half).

I agree it may be not fair, but as long as the rules are what they are, I feel no guilt in taking what they will give me.

Oh I agree I would be collecting whatever the law said I was due as would my husband. My parents can and should collect as much as they can as well. I am just saying I wouldn't be upset if they changed those loopholes.

So two people can earn off of one person, both the spouse and ex spouse? Interesting.
Yeah this is the one that I think is the biggest loop hole to close. Really 3+ people could be collecting off one person.

Lets say someone had 3 wives each for 10+ years. None of the wives worked while with him and maybe worked lower income jobs other times. The man makes a high income, lets say he was hitting the cap each year.

He gets to age 65 and I believe all 4 of them can collect while he is still alive. The man getting his full benefit and all three women getting half. So for this one person 2.5 times the expected benefit is being paid out.

With the number of people divorcing and remarrying I'm guessing this is a pretty common scenario. I think only one person should be able to collect on each account at a time.

So in my parents case my mom would have to continue collecting on her lower amount as long as my father were alive. If she were to outlive Dad though she should get his benefit as she does now.

I also agree with disability getting its own separate pot of money. Partially because I'm curious on which one is really running more in the red.
 
That's why "fixing it" should be done in as neutral a fashion as possible, such as gradually raising the age at which you can collect benefits and raising the income level at which the SS tax applies. Both are much more neutral than saying people who save get nothing but people who are spendthrifts get it all. What kind of message does THAT send about whether you should save on your own?

I'm all in on raising the age to at least 70. SS was meant for the last few years of your life, NOT nearly 1/3 of it. That alone would result in a substantial lengthening of the life of the fund. It would be phased in as the last increase was....my "collect age" is 67.5, rather than 65 (for "full benefits). Add another 2.5 years unto that current max and phase it in over the next 10 years.

Of course the flip side of raising the eligibility age is it forces people to work more years holding onto jobs that COULD be going to younger people who are unemployed.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
Another nail in the coffin is that employers are hiring at a lower rate than in the past, thus making SS contributions less. It's really a vicious cycle.
 
My thoughts, Agree Medicare is a much bigger problem and needs to be changed now, we really need to separate live saving procedures from comfort procedures. I will not really need Social Security and feel free to tweek it, but I really do not see how they can take away something I paid into for 45 years when a lot of people were not paying anything. Just asking around I find a lot of people getting far from the full benefit so it not be as bad as we think. For the young kids, start an IRA early and let it grow, its amazing what time does for investments.
 
I'm curious, mefordis, if you have ever looked at what your own SS would be? I just looked mine up, even having retired at age 28, if I collect at 67 I would get about $900 a month, if I wait until 70 I would get $1100-ish. So while it is less than about 1500 spousal benefit, it is higher than I thought.

There is a formulae and I think $900 is the base number everyone who qualifies gets, Then you add based on years and contributions
 
When SS was enacted - life expectancy in the US was 65. Now we have the same retirement age but life expectancy has gone up significantly.
It was never meant for people to collect a check for years.

And I am all for raising the income threshold. As one who hits it every year I really don't care that my take home pay goes up. I am lucky enough to make a lot so I feel honored to help the previous generations.
 
My thoughts, Agree Medicare is a much bigger problem and needs to be changed now, we really need to separate live saving procedures from comfort procedures. I will not really need Social Security and feel free to tweek it, but I really do not see how they can take away something I paid into for 45 years when a lot of people were not paying anything. Just asking around I find a lot of people getting far from the full benefit so it not be as bad as we think. For the young kids, start an IRA early and let it grow, its amazing what time does for investments.


I agree with that to a certain extent but how early are you talking. I've been "investing" since my late 20s in a 401K. There's no way I'll have enough to feel secure. I've never taken a loan and have always done something. I have had two HUGE hits to the account. One was in the 90s (and I can't remember why) and another was the 2008 housing bubble burst. I think 401Ks/IRAs are great but you must put your faith 100% in the stock market and sometimes that doesn't work out so well. My parents both lost a lot in 2008. Unfortunately, they haven't has as much time to recover from those losses. I didn't used to feel this way, but I am now feeling a "distrust" of the market. I don't think it offers much protection to the little guy.
 
I agree with that to a certain extent but how early are you talking. I've been "investing" since my late 20s in a 401K. There's no way I'll have enough to feel secure. I've never taken a loan and have always done something. I have had two HUGE hits to the account. One was in the 90s (and I can't remember why) and another was the 2008 housing bubble burst. I think 401Ks/IRAs are great but you must put your faith 100% in the stock market and sometimes that doesn't work out so well. My parents both lost a lot in 2008. Unfortunately, they haven't has as much time to recover from those losses. I didn't used to feel this way, but I am now feeling a "distrust" of the market. I don't think it offers much protection to the little guy.

I believe I am a couple of years younger than you and I agree about saving enough in a 401(k) is a tough thing. I have had to save aggressively outside of retirement vehicles as well.

I am going to be honest. My husband and I are DINKS and have maxed out social security for years. (He is ten years older than I am so closer to retirement). Our monthly social security checks will be close to $6k combined at retirement. I know some people say that you should not or that they do not count on social security. Well to me, $6k or slightly more a month is a lot of money to just walk away from. I would be in favor of raising the wage cap somewhat in order to protect my benefit, so to speak.
 
I believe I am a couple of years younger than you and I agree about saving enough in a 401(k) is a tough thing. I have had to save aggressively outside of retirement vehicles as well.

I am going to be honest. My husband and I are DINKS and have maxed out social security for years. (He is ten years older than I am so closer to retirement). Our monthly social security checks will be close to $6k combined at retirement. I know some people say that you should not or that they do not count on social security. Well to me, $6k or slightly more a month is a lot of money to just walk away from. I would be in favor of raising the wage cap somewhat in order to protect my benefit, so to speak.

The wage cap gets raised nearly every year.
 
When SS was enacted - life expectancy in the US was 65. Now we have the same retirement age but life expectancy has gone up significantly.
It was never meant for people to collect a check for years.

And I am all for raising the income threshold. As one who hits it every year I really don't care that my take home pay goes up. I am lucky enough to make a lot so I feel honored to help the previous generations.

Yep, I have a relative who is now 100. They have been collecting for 48 years. I think it was only intended to be collected for 10 or so years.
 
The wage cap gets raised nearly every year.


A tiny amount. Not enough to hold steady at the "capture taxes on 90% of income" which was originally established in order to keep SS solvent. The increase in the wage cap doesn't keep up, particularly with the extravagant wages at the top end of the scale.
 
Yep, I have a relative who is now 100. They have been collecting for 48 years. I think it was only intended to be collected for 10 or so years.


I think your math must be wrong, unless they started collecting it because they were disabled. 100-48 equals collecting at age 52, and no one does that short of being disabled. This is one reason I'd like to see SS and disability separated. They are not the same and should be set up and funded as two different things.
 
^ The amount many of today's elderly collect, however, is relatively low because their incomes were relatively low during their working years. My mother also falls under the Notch years, i.e. payouts are lower. She worked till she was 70.
 
If one has not been paying in, I am not sure it is fair to double dip at the time of collection.

I think it is totally unfair that my sister, who has worked all of her life, will receive less in SS than both of our SILs solely because our brothers made good money. Everyone should only be able to collect on their own employment record. I think survivor benefits should be phased out as people are free to buy life insurance or it can be provided as a SS option to the spouse that worked in exchange for lower benefits, just like pensions used to do. SS disability should be separately financed apart from SS entirely and should be further restricted so it doesn't provide checks for kids with ADHD, adults with phantom back pain, etc.
 
I think there are a couple of things we need to do.
1) Get back to SS's roots. It was designed to be a SUPPLEMENT to your retirement savings and pension, it was NOT designed to be your only retirement income. People have to save for their retirement. And they need to do it when they are 25, not 45.

2) We live in a time when people are retiring earlier, yet living longer. It is not unheard of for someone to retire as young as 50, and while they may not start drawing any SS until age 62, they also are not paying into SS for a dozen or so years that the system is expecting contributions from them. Maybe those generous pensions that allow people to retire so early should be subject to SS withholding. It certainly won't be totally fair, because I suspect that would impact public sector employees more than private sector since more public sector retirement plans allow retirement at 50. Given current life expectancy, it will not be unheard of for someone to spend more years in retirement than they did working.
 
I believe if my spouse dies I get his FULL amount then (not just half).
I agree it may be not fair, but as long as the rules are what they are, I feel no guilt in taking what they will give me.

But the question is, why should you be able to if you didn't pay into the system?
 


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