Soarin stand by queue

[atp]

I have a question for you all. I went to Disney last year, in June and rode Soarin many times. Mostly using FPs, but sometimes using the regular line.

Anyway, on my last day at Disney, I wanted to enjoy MK and Epcot a little bit before leaving. I went to MK first, then at around 10am or so, I went to Epcot and decided to ride Soarin. Of course, the FP times were for after 6pm so that wasn't going to work as I had to be at the hotel at 2:30pm at most to get the ME. So I went on the stand by queue which had a wait of 80 minutes I think. Bad, but definitely doable. Well, something really interesting happened. I waited for over 2 hours. And the line would not move AT ALL most of the time. It was really strange.

Also, when I complained to a CM about the line not moving at all she said that FPs have a priority and will always be let in first. Fine, I can understand that. But how many FPs are given away per hour? Doesn't seem like it would be a lot.

I was at that point in the line where you can see people exiting the ride and I saw people exit over 5 times and the line did not move even one inch forward. Is that normal?

This seems kind of random since it's been nearly one year, but I read the late FP thread and it reminded me of that.

 

[Robo]

I have a question for you all. I went to Disney last year, in June and rode Soarin many times. Mostly using FPs, but sometimes using the regular line.

Anyway, on my last day at Disney, I wanted to enjoy MK and Epcot a little bit before leaving. I went to MK first, then at around 10am or so, I went to Epcot and decided to ride Soarin. Of course, the FP times were for after 6pm so that wasn't going to work as I had to be at the hotel at 2:30pm at most to get the ME. So I went on the stand by queue which had a wait of 80 minutes I think. Bad, but definitely doable. Well, something really interesting happened. I waited for over 2 hours. And the line would not move AT ALL most of the time. It was really strange.

Also, when I complained to a CM about the line not moving at all she said that FPs have a priority and will always be let in first. Fine, I can understand that. But how many FPs are given away per hour? Doesn't seem like it would be a lot.

I was at that point in the line where you can see people exiting the ride and I saw people exit over 5 times and the line did not move even one inch forward. Is that normal?

This seems kind of random since it's been nearly one year, but I read the late FP thread and it reminded me of that.

Where were you standing (at what point in the building) that the line did not move?

Just a guess...
With the lane being so wide, and with the "games" being played at the mid-point, it's likely
that guests will "bunch up" at the point of the game and only the far-end will be depleted
(as they load.) It could appear to someone at the entrance end that no part of the line was moving.

 

[atp]

Where were you standing (at what point in the building) that the line did not move?

Just a guess...
With the lane being so wide, and with the "games" being played at the mid-point, it's likely
that guests will "bunch up" at the point of the game and only the far-end will be depleted
(as they load.) It could appear to someone at the entrance end that no part of the line was moving.

I had already been in line for a long time when I was at that point. If I remember correctly it was right before you get to the cast member who moves you to next part of the line. At the last point where you can see the people exiting below. I'm pretty sure this is after all the games. But regardless, even when I was right before the game part the line was pretty spread out so I could see past that part. It didn't seem to be the problem. It just moved VERY slowly. A lot of people in line were like "What the..." every time we saw more and more people exiting and nothing happening in our line.

 

[lllGurulll]

Heck, in 2008 we had fast passes and went through the exact same situation as you just described but in the fast pass lane. It was VERY odd.

As much as I enjoy Soarin' sometimes I really wonder if it is worth the effort.

 

[cmwade77]

This is nothing compared to our experience, we were getting off of Soarin' and the gates were completely closed, with no way out! We finally found a cast member that helped us find our way out, but yikes! Waiting to get in is expected, but waiting to get out?

As far as your experience, I have no idea, because I always use FP (I can understand why you didn't though), if I choose to go on Soarin' there (even if there is no line, it is a LONG queue and we have it here on the west coast.

 

[Track101]

But how many FPs are given away per hour? Doesn't seem like it would be a lot.

Disclaimer: I don't work there, and this is probably going to get a bit technical, but....
The number of fastpasses distributed seems to be a percentage of the expected capacity of the attraction. It's been explained to me as less than 100% of the expected throughput per period of time, but still quite a high percentage. Then add in all the non-Fastpass holders that still use the Fastpass queue (rider switches, Guest Assistance Card holders). That number ebbs and flows, but it could easily fill up most of the rest of the "expected capacity" or "throughput" that I mentioned earlier that wasn't already distributed in Fastpass.
The point where the lines merge can only let a certain total number of Guests pass through from the standby and fastpass lines (enough to keep the theater loading queues full (the ones past the merge point, that go left/right). That amount is (basically) the throughput, per period of time. Now, if almost all of that capacity is filled up by returning Fastpasses, rider switches, etc, then the standby line can't really move ahead a whole lot (a few here, a few there). If it did, the fastpass line would then grow to unmanageable levels.
It all goes back to too high a level of fastpass distribution.

Its fascinating stuff if you like numbers, and all of this seems to be modeled and monitored internally with all kinds of statistics.

 

[atp]

Disclaimer: I don't work there, and this is probably going to get a bit technical, but....
The number of fastpasses distributed seems to be a percentage of the expected capacity of the attraction. It's been explained to me as less than 100% of the expected throughput per period of time, but still quite a high percentage. Then add in all the non-Fastpass holders that still use the Fastpass queue (rider switches, Guest Assistance Card holders). That number ebbs and flows, but it could easily fill up most of the rest of the "expected capacity" or "throughput" that I mentioned earlier that wasn't already distributed in Fastpass.
The point where the lines merge can only let a certain total number of Guests pass through from the standby and fastpass lines (enough to keep the theater loading queues full (the ones past the merge point, that go left/right). That amount is (basically) the throughput, per period of time. Now, if almost all of that capacity is filled up by returning Fastpasses, rider switches, etc, then the standby line can't really move ahead a whole lot (a few here, a few there). If it did, the fastpass line would then grow to unmanageable levels.
It all goes back to too high a level of fastpass distribution.

Its fascinating stuff if you like numbers, and all of this seems to be modeled and monitored internally with all kinds of statistics.

That's really interesting. I think it would be cool to know more details and learn how it all works. I guess that's what must have happened on that day, but still I think it's unfair.

I know people who have fast passes have a certain priority but the number of people who are able to get FPs seem to be pretty small compared to the number of people who have to go to the stand by line. So when the stand by line is really, really busy, it seems like it would be fair to, at the very least, let in the same amount of people from both lines. For instance, say 100 people can go in to the final line to ride. Then let 50 from FP in and 50 from stand by.

There's no way the FP line could ever come close to being as long as the stand by one even if you don't let everyone with FPs in immediately.

I like the idea of fast passes and all but I always thought that they just meant a shorter line, not no line at all. When the parks aren't busy, it's fine to do that. But when it's very busy it's unfair to make everyone else wait a LOT so that very few people (comparatively) with FPs don't need to wait at all.

 

[Robo]

when it's very busy it's unfair to make everyone else wait a LOT so that very few people (comparatively) with FPs don't need to wait at all.

Hmmmmmmmm.

Those with a FP made it a priority for themselves to arrive early enough to get a FP.

"Everyone else" was doing something else.
Is it fair to make those who chose to go get a FP have to make it over to the FP machines
earlier in their day, when they could have been doing something else...
like those who do not have a FP were doing?

 

[disneychic2]

I've been held up in the FP line at Soarin' to let people from the stand-by line to go ahead. I didn't have problem with it, but glad I didn't have to wait too long. That's the point of having a FP after all. Sorry your wait was so long. My experience is that the stated time of wait is usually pretty accurate or just a little less. Hope your future trips are better.

 

[RatherB@Disney]

it seems like it would be fair to, at the very least, let in the same amount of people from both lines. For instance, say 100 people can go in to the final line to ride. Then let 50 from FP in and 50 from stand by.

Although I don't recall the proportion necessarily being HALF FP/HALF stand-by, I have often seen CM's stop the FP line to let some people in the stand-by line on rides. My guess is that it's somewhat dependent upon the CM.

 

[Robo]

Although I don't recall the proportion necessarily being HALF FP/HALF stand-by, I have often seen CM's stop the FP line to let some people in the stand-by line on rides.


My guess is that it's somewhat dependent upon the CM.

Yes, and it can vary with the level of the CM's training and experience just how well (s)he can manage to dispatch the two lines.

The "CM experience factor" is also very important at RnRC, because it includes the added third source of guests... coming in from the Single Rider Line.

 

[atp]

Hmmmmmmmm.

Those with a FP made it a priority for themselves to arrive early enough to get a FP.

"Everyone else" was doing something else.
Is it fair to make those who chose to go get a FP have to make it over to the FP machines
earlier in their day, when they could have been doing something else...
like those who do not have a FP were doing?

I understand that, and I think that they should not wait long on the FP line. I'm only talking about very busy days...that's the only time I think it is unfair for them not to wait AT ALL. Even if everyone got there at rope drop, there wouldn't be FPs for everyone. Like I said, I use FPs and I love them but sometimes you just can't get one.

I would also be fine with the line moving slowly but surely, but not moving at all for long periods of time? That's a little weird. Specially since it never happened to me before on Soarin or even TSM which I rode many times using the stand by queue. That's the only reason I found what happened extremely odd.

If you have so many people on the FP line that you aren't able to get the stand by line moving much at all, then maybe too many FPs were given away for that specific day, no?

Anyway, I was just trying to figure out why it happened and if it's a normal occurrence. I'm not trying to start an argument or criticize fast passes at all. Of course it's not fair to make people who got there early for FP wait a long time and let me right in while I was somewhere else, doing other things.

Just wondering if maybe they gave away too many fast passes or didn't want to make anyone on the FP line wait AT ALL, when a 5-10 minute wait is usually what happens on that line when it's busy (happened to me at least).

I'm really just trying to understand and maybe hear from someone who knows how it works, that's all.

I've been held up in the FP line at Soarin' to let people from the stand-by line to go ahead. I didn't have problem with it, but glad I didn't have to wait too long. That's the point of having a FP after all. Sorry your wait was so long. My experience is that the stated time of wait is usually pretty accurate or just a little less. Hope your future trips are better.

Yes, I have had that happen to me as well not only on Soarin and I was perfectly fine with it. Anything under 5-10 minutes is perfectly acceptable.

It certainly is the point of FP, I agree. And thank you, my trip was wonderful, save for this and another incident. I'm really just trying to understand how it all works

 

[Robo]

If you have so many people on the FP line that you aren't able to get the stand by line moving much at all, then maybe too many FPs were given away for that specific day, no?

I have to say, "no."

It's not a "judgement call" as to how many FP's are given out on a particular day.

That number is predetermined due to ride capacity.

What the overriding factor is (all things being equal) that there are just a lot of guests who decided (during a particular time period) to ride "Standby."

FP users don't substantially slow down a ride's time-to-boarding (their "seats" have already been spoken for.)
It is the over abundance of stand by guests in the queue which will lengthen a ride's time-to-boarding.

 

[sharona]

I have a question for you all. I went to Disney last year, in June and rode Soarin many times. Mostly using FPs, but sometimes using the regular line.

Anyway, on my last day at Disney, I wanted to enjoy MK and Epcot a little bit before leaving. I went to MK first, then at around 10am or so, I went to Epcot and decided to ride Soarin. Of course, the FP times were for after 6pm so that wasn't going to work as I had to be at the hotel at 2:30pm at most to get the ME. So I went on the stand by queue which had a wait of 80 minutes I think. Bad, but definitely doable. Well, something really interesting happened. I waited for over 2 hours. And the line would not move AT ALL most of the time. It was really strange.

Also, when I complained to a CM about the line not moving at all she said that FPs have a priority and will always be let in first. Fine, I can understand that. But how many FPs are given away per hour? Doesn't seem like it would be a lot.

I was at that point in the line where you can see people exiting the ride and I saw people exit over 5 times and the line did not move even one inch forward. Is that normal?

This seems kind of random since it's been nearly one year, but I read the late FP thread and it reminded me of that.

This happened to us our first trip. We wanted one more ride on Soarin before we headed home but by the time we checked out and got there the FP return times were too late. We decided to brave a 70 minute wait and it was more like 2 hours. We ended up having to rush back to get make our ME pick up and no time to eat before our flight. Never again will I get in the standby line for Soarin after 10am. Too many people coming back w/ FPs and while I love the ride, it's not worth that long of a wait.

 

[Traveliz]

The CMs have a ratio they go by as to how many FP go /how many standby. It's highly favored towarded the FP line. They also have numbers of guests to get through the line each hour. It's really interesting that its all about the numbers for them and moving people through.

Things that mess up the line wait include one of the theatres going down unexpectantly - that can really mess with the FP/Standby wait times.

Liz

 

[wdw&sonny]

Same thing happened to me last year (July 2010) at Test Track. We are avid FP users, early risers and park hoppers, to beat the crowd. I almost never choose to wait over 20min. But, one quiet evening last July after dinner at EPCOT, on about day 6, we decided we would ride TT despite the posted 30' wait. As we stood still for most of the wait, I watched as the FP and single riders kept pouring in. It took an hour to ride. I think it was around 7pm.

That's when I devised my plan for this year's trip. No park hoppers. Instead we are going to collect FP during the early hours and save them for the return to the same park after dinner.

Has anyone done this with success? Any flaws in this system?

 

[Traveliz]

Same thing happened to me last year (July 2010) at Test Track. We are avid FP users, early risers and park hoppers, to beat the crowd. I almost never choose to wait over 20min. But, one quiet evening last July after dinner at EPCOT, on about day 6, we decided we would ride TT despite the posted 30' wait. As we stood still for most of the wait, I watched as the FP and single riders kept pouring in. It took an hour to ride. I think it was around 7pm.

That's when I devised my plan for this year's trip. No park hoppers. Instead we are going to collect FP during the early hours and save them for the return to the same park after dinner.

Has anyone done this with success? Any flaws in this system?

We do that ALL the time - most recently during Spring Break this year. Another day we did it was July 4th - it has always worked perfectly, we have always been allowed in after the FP time, and we have also been able to do more than one park that way (well but you would have to have park hoppers).

Liz

 

[swilshire]

Maybe the ride broke down and the cast member didn't want to (or wasn't allowed to) say so.

Sheila

 

[PIRATEGIRL007]

so you stood completely still for 2 hours the line not moving not even a foot and you stayed there?

20 minutes of the line not moving would have been enough for me to get out of line.

 

[sharona]

Same thing happened to me last year (July 2010) at Test Track. We are avid FP users, early risers and park hoppers, to beat the crowd. I almost never choose to wait over 20min. But, one quiet evening last July after dinner at EPCOT, on about day 6, we decided we would ride TT despite the posted 30' wait. As we stood still for most of the wait, I watched as the FP and single riders kept pouring in. It took an hour to ride. I think it was around 7pm.

That's when I devised my plan for this year's trip. No park hoppers. Instead we are going to collect FP during the early hours and save them for the return to the same park after dinner.

Has anyone done this with success? Any flaws in this system?

We did this last week and it was great. The only "flaw" was that we had too many FPs and not enough time to use them all. Make sure you leave enough time after your break to use your FPs. If you are there at opening and get a new FP as soon as the next window opens, you can end up with a lot, especially at MK if the park opens at 8. We ended up leaving for our break w/ 7 FPs (if you count that fake one for Philharmagic).

We gave the extras away when we realized DD was getting tired. We made some other guests very happy which was fun but be prepared for doubters when they see the "expired" window.