Soarin' SB+ test...Fail

[ParrotBill]

Yea, we talked this through a lot as FP+ became reality. Not so much "spread the wealth" as get more people to use the FP system.

Before: Smaller % of people heavily used FP, most stood in lines all day

After: Limits on FP+ use and heavy promotion to get more people using it gets more people out of lines and shopping instead.

Does it do that? or do people just get in SB lines when waiting? I think Disney overestimates the spending power of its guests sometimes.

 

[MrInfinity]

The bottom line is that it IS getting harder and harder to do exactly what YOU want to do on a trip.

I don't agree w this. We went in May. We did everything we wanted. Even after spending the previous year reading about how awful FP would be, it was just fine.
(Well, except for riding SDMT, but that's not really a "didn't get to do" since it wasn't even open.)

In the end, this has turned into an endurance contest, and you may or may not be able to do everything you dreamed of doing on your next trip.

This does not apply to the mainstream customer. Excepting the 1000'ish ppl out here on the disboards... the other millions of guests just go and have a great time. You really only hear about the frustration from the small sample of ppl that expects to get more.

i.e. the people who want to go and ride Soarin and TT 3 times each in one day. That's great to want that. But that want is not reasonable, considering some rides handle less capacity than they have guests in a day.

Folks keep missing this point. FP+ leveled the field. Before, yes, ppl who knew how to game the system could ride more at other guests' expense. You didn't care that someone else's kid would not get to ride Soarin when you pulled several FP-'s to it in one day. Now that you can't ride it as often as you like any more, you are saying THEY will be put out by this. Implying THEY are those common guests.

I really don't think that's the case. Most guests are far better off with FP+, even me, an ex-FP-master, I really liked FP+ too.

Still I think having no SB line whatsoever is silly. There should be some line you can go stand in. Cuz while the card system makes sense, it's again too easy to abuse. And I don't see why FP- supporters don't like this... Go grab a card for Soarin, go grab a card for TT, you should be golden. Right? You'll get to go on quickly 3 times that day (2 cards plus your Tier 1 FP) while many other guests will not. That's what you want right?

So the card system wont stick around except for occasional low-cap attractions like A&E or JTA.

The ones who will be happy with their trips are the ones who are wiling to settle for sampling a few of the things they had in mind doing.

I did not "settle for sampling a few things". Then again I didn't really want to ride Soarin more than once in a day, so this wouldn't really put me off. The problem with it will simply be that if they apply it to many rides, ppl will learn to game it and go grab tons of cards -- great for Dis'ers but won't work for the general public.

 

[SmallWorld71]

Yea, we talked this through a lot as FP+ became reality. Not so much "spread the wealth" as get more people to use the FP system.

Before: Smaller % of people heavily used FP, most stood in lines all day

After: Limits on FP+ use and heavy promotion to get more people using it gets more people out of lines and shopping instead.

Does it do that? or do people just get in SB lines when waiting? I think Disney overestimates the spending power of its guests sometimes.

It certainly overestimates my spending power; my vacation $ is finite.
Though I begin to wonder if this mess has more to do with catering to some of the international visitors and getting them to spend more $.
On a trip to Universal, a woman (who happened to be from South America) in front of me in line in one of the WWOHP shops dropped over $1000 dollars in one transaction! She bought some fancy Crystal Goblet of Fire that was behind the counter along with some other stuff.
As we know, there are many tour groups with young wealthy kids and they get in line en masse and definitely go for the headliners. Get them out of line to spend $ at the parks while waiting to ride. This is a big inspiration behind Disney Springs, right? Get people to spend $ there instead of going off-site to the outlets.

 

[TISHLOVESDISNEY]

I would never wait in a 120 min line. My worry over this is, where will all the people not in SB go then? I assume TT? At MK I could maybe see this working, more rides to spread out to. Epcot doesn't offer enough for ride go-ers. No, I wouldn't be one to then go ride LOTL...

I used to think Disney knew what they were doing, I'm feeling a little less faith, trust and pixie dust.

Hopefully the end result surprises us all?

 

[Laz]

Yea, we talked this through a lot as FP+ became reality. Not so much "spread the wealth" as get more people to use the FP system.

Before: Smaller % of people heavily used FP, most stood in lines all day

After: Limits on FP+ use and heavy promotion to get more people using it gets more people out of lines and shopping instead.
Does it do that? or do people just get in SB lines when waiting? I think Disney overestimates the spending power of its guests sometimes.

When talking to the hotel director of a cruise ship, he mentioned that the cruise lines are moving more ships away from US ports in the summer because US passengers do not spend money. US passengers will fill the cabins (for the right price), but once on board, spend relatively little. If this is true, would WDW be experiencing the same thing?

 

[lovethattink]

I don't think we've ever gone to Epcot with the sole intention to ride attractions. We always go for something else. F&W, F&G, Christmas Around the World, dinner, etc. So since I have the afternoon free. I'm popping over there later with the sole intention of going on rides and checking out the soarin' test. I don't think it is going to be a big disaster. I bet we'll have fun.

 

[flicx]

I really don't think that's the case. Most guests are far better off with FP+, even me, an ex-FP-master, I really liked FP+ too.

I think this is not true. Most guests would have been better with the old system and about 15 new attractions. The new system is full of glitches ,time consuming. and requires planning months in advance to utilize it to the max. I also think Disney would not have tested closing standby lines down if they didn't have some sort of plan with this involved in the future. I for one am tired of hearing how wonderful this new system is. Quite frankly I think it sucks. Still waiting to see what other repercussions will follow!

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't agree w this. We went in May. We did everything we wanted. Even after spending the previous year reading about how awful FP would be, it was just fine.
(Well, except for riding SDMT, but that's not really a "didn't get to do" since it wasn't even open.)



This does not apply to the mainstream customer. Excepting the 1000'ish ppl out here on the disboards... the other millions of guests just go and have a great time. You really only hear about the frustration from the small sample of ppl that expects to get more.

i.e. the people who want to go and ride Soarin and TT 3 times each in one day. That's great to want that. But that want is not reasonable, considering some rides handle less capacity than they have guests in a day.

Folks keep missing this point. FP+ leveled the field. Before, yes, ppl who knew how to game the system could ride more at other guests' expense. You didn't care that someone else's kid would not get to ride Soarin when you pulled several FP-'s to it in one day. Now that you can't ride it as often as you like any more, you are saying THEY will be put out by this. Implying THEY are those common guests.

I really don't think that's the case. Most guests are far better off with FP+, even me, an ex-FP-master, I really liked FP+ too.

Still I think having no SB line whatsoever is silly. There should be some line you can go stand in. Cuz while the card system makes sense, it's again too easy to abuse. And I don't see why FP- supporters don't like this... Go grab a card for Soarin, go grab a card for TT, you should be golden. Right? You'll get to go on quickly 3 times that day (2 cards plus your Tier 1 FP) while many other guests will not. That's what you want right?

So the card system wont stick around except for occasional low-cap attractions like A&E or JTA.



I did not "settle for sampling a few things". Then again I didn't really want to ride Soarin more than once in a day, so this wouldn't really put me off. The problem with it will simply be that if they apply it to many rides, ppl will learn to game it and go grab tons of cards -- great for Dis'ers but won't work for the general public.

We don't agree? I'm shocked!

Everyone expects different things when they book a trip. When we finally get back to WDW, I am expecting to eat at BOG, eat at CRT, meet Anna and Elsa and ride the Mine Train several times. Yep. ALL of that. Not just a sampling.

On a typical trip we will usually end up trying to ride one particular headliner multiple times. One trip it was RnR. One trip it was BTMRR. Another trip it was ToT. Other than that, we might like to duplicate one headliner a day. But even those occasional duplicate rides are getting harder and harder to come by.

Whether I'm a mainstream customer or not doesn't matter to me. I have to make my decisions based on what we expect and are willing to spend money on. I hang out here so I can make an informed decision on when it's safe to get back in the water.

Maybe you're right. Maybe I'm so much of an outlier that Disney will just plow through with the changes that are under way. Or maybe I'm not and Disney will have to alter their course. I have a genuine curiosity for how this is all going to play out.

 

[Angel Ariel]

This does not apply to the mainstream customer. Excepting the 1000'ish ppl out here on the disboards... the other millions of guests just go and have a great time. You really only hear about the frustration from the small sample of ppl that expects to get more.

While the dis may be a small sample who are frustrated, they also represent the small sample that is likely to be more willing to put in the preplanning fp+ requires. Every non-Disney lover I know who has gone to Disney lately has basically said "WTH, now they want me to reserve rides 2 months before I'm there?!"

I don't believe the general public has a desire to plan vacations down to the hour as Disney is wanting them to do. I'm sure there are many, like me, who will because they know they need to, not because they want to.

 

[mousefan73]

I am one of those foreigners, Disney supposidly is targeting.. Let me just say the fact that it costs us more than the Disney portion just to get to Florida AND we have luggage limits, hinders me from spending and spending. I also have no more disposible income than most Americans.

Also I don't see how FP+ gets people to shop more.. Unless you were the type that literally ran from one ride to the next to pull tickets..


There is alot more to do between FP times, ride other rides, walk from A to B, potty break, eating, train, parades...etc.. It's not like FP+ is giving us more time to do other things.? I saw no difference in how our day went vs. the old system.


I am curious how this new system will pan out.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

This does not apply to the mainstream customer. Excepting the 1000'ish ppl out here on the disboards... the other millions of guests just go and have a great time. You really only hear about the frustration from the small sample of ppl that expects to get more.

i.e. the people who want to go and ride Soarin and TT 3 times each in one day. That's great to want that. But that want is not reasonable, considering some rides handle less capacity than they have guests in a day.

Folks keep missing this point. FP+ leveled the field. Before, yes, ppl who knew how to game the system could ride more at other guests' expense. You didn't care that someone else's kid would not get to ride Soarin when you pulled several FP-'s to it in one day. Now that you can't ride it as often as you like any more, you are saying THEY will be put out by this. Implying THEY are those common guests.

I really don't think that's the case. Most guests are far better off with FP+, even me, an ex-FP-master, I really liked FP+ too.

Still I think having no SB line whatsoever is silly. There should be some line you can go stand in. Cuz while the card system makes sense, it's again too easy to abuse. And I don't see why FP- supporters don't like this... Go grab a card for Soarin, go grab a card for TT, you should be golden. Right? You'll get to go on quickly 3 times that day (2 cards plus your Tier 1 FP) while many other guests will not. That's what you want right?

So the card system wont stick around except for occasional low-cap attractions like A&E or JTA.



I did not "settle for sampling a few things". Then again I didn't really want to ride Soarin more than once in a day, so this wouldn't really put me off. The problem with it will simply be that if they apply it to many rides, ppl will learn to game it and go grab tons of cards -- great for Dis'ers but won't work for the general public.

I get the point that this is a ride redistribution system. However, do you get the point of WHY it is needed?

They've oversold the number of accomadation units. More hotel rooms and more DVC. It is a ride capacity issue.

My experience has been hurry up and wait. A very herky jerky way to see the parks. I've also had to cancel most TS lunches which is part of my enjoyment of the parks.

 

[MrInfinity]

I think this is not true. Most guests would have been better with the old system

Well we (Dis) already pretty much agree that the old system did not benefit most guests. It benefitted those that learned to master it and only those that did so. Most guests did not use FP- at all.

and about 15 new attractions.

Well of course.
But this is business, Disney is not here to donate rides to our experience. The parks are full, so there is no need for more rides. Disney needs now to get ppl out of the parks and spread out around their property better, and FP+ angles toward that end.

The new system is full of glitches

I really didn't get that from my experience. It worked fine. On the phone, on the PC, at the park. The one time we had an issue linking up a guest we called tech sup and the guy fixed it super fast.

time consuming

I don't see the time draw. It's not time consuming if you don't want it to be. You can pick a week of FPs in a few minutes and be done, or you can CHOOSE to go in and micro manage them for any amount of time.

and requires planning months in advance to utilize it to the max.

Utilizing anything to the max is generally not goal #1 of most vacationers. This is vacation. Relax. Not everyone is trying to maximize.

I also think Disney would not have tested closing standby lines down if they didn't have some sort of plan with this involved in the future.

No doubt. It'll be interesting to see where they're going w it.

I for one am tired of hearing how wonderful this new system is. Quite frankly I think it sucks. Still waiting to see what other repercussions will follow!

That's a bummer that you think it sucks. I really do like it. It worked well, I got on I'd say nearly as much or as much as I ever did, and I did so in shorter days at the parks, and had more time w my family, and less time split up.

I really saw no case, in my experience, for how FP- would have been better.

 

[mom2rtk]

But this is business, Disney is not here to donate rides to our experience. The parks are full, so there is no need for more rides. Disney needs now to get ppl out of the parks and spread out around their property better, and FP+ angles toward that end.

The fact that you could even use "donate" in this context is so telling as to your bias in all of this.

 

[MrInfinity]

We don't agree? I'm shocked!

When we finally get back to WDW, I am expecting to eat at BOG, eat at CRT, meet Anna and Elsa and ride the Mine Train several times. Yep. ALL of that. Not just a sampling.

Sounds good to me! And I'm sure you'll make it happen. None of that is stuff you can't get w good planning. Tho most guests do not know what BOG or CRT means let alone know they should be trying to book it at a precise time on a precise day.

 

[JoshuaShaw]

But this is business, Disney is not here to donate rides to our experience. The parks are full, so there is no need for more rides.

Your username was aptly chosen.

 

[Mkrop]

Oh heck no! I just spent 2 hours yesterday explaining WDW to a friend who has bot been since 1994. She is planning an end of Oct trip, only time everyone can go, dining is not super important. But I did stress booking at least 60 days before so she can book FP+ and explained it all. I am not sure she got it but I will help her when the time comes...but now they are adding this. The ride I told her was one of the best in WDW, esp for her non thrill ride 11 year old!!!! UGH!!!!!

 

[Mad Hattered]

Your username was aptly chosen.

I seriously just laughed out loud at work. People think I am weird....wait.

 

[MrInfinity]

While the dis may be a small sample who are frustrated, they also represent the small sample that is likely to be more willing to put in the preplanning fp+ requires. Every non-Disney lover I know who has gone to Disney lately has basically said "WTH, now they want me to reserve rides 2 months before I'm there?!"

I don't believe the general public has a desire to plan vacations down to the hour as Disney is wanting them to do. I'm sure there are many, like me, who will because they know they need to, not because they want to.

Well I think you're right here, most guests will not do up a spreadsheet like I do, or you might. But they will at least do the Pick-3 and then try to picture a day in their mind.

And I don't think this card thing will stick, because guests will always want the option to simply show up and go stand in line. Some things are so simple you can't cut out SB entirely.

 

[clsteve]

And I don't see why FP- supporters don't like this... Go grab a card for Soarin, go grab a card for TT, you should be golden. Right? You'll get to go on quickly 3 times that day (2 cards plus your Tier 1 FP) while many other guests will not. That's what you want right?

So the card system wont stick around except for occasional low-cap attractions like A&E or JTA.

I did not "settle for sampling a few things". Then again I didn't really want to ride Soarin more than once in a day, so this wouldn't really put me off. The problem with it will simply be that if they apply it to many rides, ppl will learn to game it and go grab tons of cards -- great for Dis'ers but won't work for the general public.

You're not thinking it through. They didn't invest in MB's for this not to be monitored and rationed. Do you really think they're going to let guests run around collecting multiple cards and just riding all day? That's not the intent of this.

Nope

And do you really think this is just for M&G's? Why are they testing it at Soarin' then...? Why are the same people that broke the news saying it's going to be tested at TSMM...?

The only way this isn't hitting all of the Tier One's (at least) is if it fails so miserably. Every option they've "tested" through the past many months has been implemented. It doesn't take a huge leap of faith to expect this to be, as well.

 

[wn01aa]

Isn't that exactly what they are testing? FP++ would be the headliner tour they just announced? Regular SB is the leftovers you can sample if you happen to know they are re-opening the line at 8 PM?

I have rethought it and they probably wouldn't introduce a 4th line if they started selling fastpasses. They would probably just add them to your FP+ allotment so instead of 3 you could by 2 more, 4 more, 6 more, etc (Each level for a different price). You would still use the FP+ line, just would be able to go in more of them. This would, of course, drive up standby waits even more.