So Worried about DAS/Wheelchair combo at Disneyland

[SueM in MN]

When I posted this I didn't know how to quote. I was referring to Nevada Jen's statement "(so DAS walking folks were also using the exits exits as entrances) was pretty much a nightmare." As I stated in my other post, "The thing about FL is that there isn't a lot of space at the exits. Both wheelchair return times and DAS return times use the exit as the entrance."

To my knowledge, there isn't separate lines in FL, but, the CM trying their hardest to keep track of things. It has been my experience that a wheelchair return time and a DAS return time are given the same access to the ride vehicle. Both have waited their turn in the "virtual queue." For example a person with a wheelchair return time of 3:00 arrives at the same time as a person with a DAS return time of 3:00 arrive at the exit at the same time (the appropriate place for most rides in FL) then the CMs were taking them in the order of arrival (whichever guest arrived first). If waiting for a special vehicle, then I can see the wait might being longer for the person with a wheelchair return time.

It has been my experience that the CMs and Disney as a whole are working hard to make sure everyone has equal access in the best way they can. I have had nothing but positive experiences. In fact, my DD has had several occasions when CMs have gone over and beyond and have given her pixie dust.

There are very few attractions at WDW where guests using wheelchairs, other mobility devices or who need the accessible entrance enter thru the exit. Those few are ones where the line is not wheelchair accessible - one example is Spaceship Earth at Epcot and it will probably never be able to be made accessible.
They have been switching those non-accessible lines to make the majority of the line accessible as much as possible (Peter Pan is one that now has an accessible line).
In some cases, the line is accessible, but the [/i]boarding area [/i] is not. In those attractions, the 'accessible pull off point' is usually as close as possible to the regular boarding area.

People using mobility devices or who can't use the regular boarding area need to board at the accessible spot, which is currently the exit for 2 attractions I can think of off-hand. One is Spaceship Earth and the other is Jungle Cruise.

People with DAS, but no mobility needs would almost always be using the Fastpass line. Since most attractions at WDW have Fastpass, they would have no need to use another line unless they have mobility or other reasons they can't use the regular boarding area.

 

[SirDuff]

As I said, it's what those that designed the system have told me personally, so I am pretty confident they know what they are talking about.

Okay, so not official policy then. If only "those who designed it" and their friends know about it, how the heck is it supposed to be enforced?

Might have been what they wanted to have as a rule, but unless it is written into the rules, saying that it is "official policy" is disingenuous at best.

 

[cmwade77]

It doesn't matter one whit if that's how they designed it, or if it's how they thought they were designing it - that doesn't make it "official policy". If the "official policy" was that DAS users got immediate access upon return, the Disney FAQs and the DAS itself wouldn't say the opposite.

I never said immediate access, I said if the return queue is lo get than 10 minutes, they are supposed to have separate DAS and wheelchair return queues, giving priority to DAS card holders. This doesn't mean they will get on immediately either. It is just how they are supposed to prioritize when the return queues are long.

 

[cmwade77]

Okay, so not official policy then. If only "those who designed it" and their friends know about it, how the heck is it supposed to be enforced?

Might have been what they wanted to have as a rule, but unless it is written into the rules, saying that it is "official policy" is disingenuous at best.

I am not their friend, anyone can write Disney and ask for clarification, I just got lucky and had them call me back personally.

 

[SMD]

There are very few attractions at WDW where guests using wheelchairs, other mobility devices or who need the accessible entrance enter thru the exit. Those few are ones where the line is not wheelchair accessible - one example is Spaceship Earth at Epcot and it will probably never be able to be made accessible.
They have been switching those non-accessible lines to make the majority of the line accessible as much as possible (Peter Pan is one that now has an accessible line).
In some cases, the line is accessible, but the [/i]boarding area [/i] is not. In those attractions, the 'accessible pull off point' is usually as close as possible to the regular boarding area.

People using mobility devices or who can't use the regular boarding area need to board at the accessible spot, which is currently the exit for 2 attractions I can think of off-hand. One is Spaceship Earth and the other is Jungle Cruise.

People with DAS, but no mobility needs would almost always be using the Fastpass line. Since most attractions at WDW have Fastpass, they would have no need to use another line unless they have mobility or other reasons they can't use the regular boarding area.

You can't compare DL to MK. The FP merge points are much further back. On Space Mountain it is when you enter the building. Depending on how the CM controls the flow of people into the building, you'll an additional 10-20 minutes to be sorted in the loading area. The total wait time often says 40 minutes, but I find it to be closer to 30-35. Still, that's up to half the wait time after the FP and standby merge. If you need the accessible entrance, only 1 car can be pulled out, and it has to return before another can load. There is no area near the platform to wait, so they hold everyone outside.

I'll add that since DAS was introduced I haven't been on Space, Big Thunder, Roger Rabbit or Autopia through the accessible queue, so I don't know if DAS are using those, or going through FP. But on every other ride I can think of in DL, DAS users are going through the exit with wheelchairs, in a single line. And that's how it was with the GAC too. Most people had the stamp that allowed them to enter through the exit. Let's be honest, that was the appeal. The difference now, aside from the DAS users having to get a return time is that the use of wheelchair return times has increased. Prior to DAS we got them a lot less, but in some cases like Space and Pirates had to wait in a much longer line at the attraction.

 

[SueM in MN]

[Q

The difference is that the DAS applies to every attraction. Wheelchair return times are only given at attractions where the queue is not mainstreamed in. Additionally, a DAS is not given for mobility issues, so there are other issues with waiting when returning to an attraction. So, if the length of the wait is too long when someone returns with a DAS there can be needs that would not be met if they had to wait for the same length of time as someone returning with just a wheelchair and no DAS. This is why every attraction is supposed to have a separate DAS queue from the wheelchair return queue when the wheelchair return queue is longer than 10 minutes (this is what Disney told me directly in emails and on the phone with those that designed the system). Again, this is how it is supposed to work at Disneyland, Disney World may be different than that. Also, the other reason to separate the lines is many attractions can have only a limited number of wheelchair parties, but an unlimited number of parties with DAS cards if they can handle stairs, etc. during an evacuation. So by separating the lines, they actually make the lines go faster for both those in wheelchairs and those with DAS cards.

Really it isn't saying one disability is greater than the other, it is saying one persons needs are greater than the other and in order to accommodate those needs, there needs to be a bit of thought put into things.

If there is over a 10 minute wait when you return, they are supposed to give priority to the DAS card holders according to their official rules. That being said, I have seen them make several offers to accommodate such cases, such as a guest recovery pass to another attraction and one for theirs to come back at a time when there is less of a wait. There are various other ways it is handled, but what happened to my friend who has a DAS card, a service animal and a walker at Indiana Jones should never happen. When they returned, it was still a 45 minute wait before they could get on the attraction. This should have been handled a lot differently than it was and that is my point that according to the official rules, a DAS card holder has already waited in line and so has the person with the wheelchair return time, in an ideal world both would get on immediately when returning. We all know that isn't possible and it may not be possible for them to both be put on at the same time. So, the DAS card holder is supposed to be given priority due to the fact that the needs are greater and this is what can be done to accommodate them.

That is not my understanding for either WDW or DL and I have also talked with the designers of the system. It's possible you understood something different from what you heard than I did.

My understanding is:
The only '10 minute' time period information I have heard for either WDW or DL is that:
- if the posted wait in the Standby line is 10 minutes or less, the guest requesting to use DAS will be told to enter the regular line, if possible
- if not possible, the guest using DAS may be allowed into the Fastpass line - at the discretion of the CM at the attraction.
- the Return Time given to DAS users will be roughly equal to 10 minutes less than the current posted Standby wait time. People have posted different guesses of why 10 minutes (for example, to make up for walking time), but Disney has not given an official reason.

A 10-15 minute wait in the Fastpass line is the goal, not a guarantee, and has been the goal since I first heard about Fastpass when it rolled out years ago.
Since DAS users will be returning to the Fastpass line, if the attraction has one, the goal for them is the same as other guests in the Fastpass line, a 'short' wait.

My other understandings include:
- DAS users at WDW will almost always be using the Fastpass line for DAS Returns, whether or not they have mobility needs.
Since most attractions at WDW do have Fastpass, most DAS users will be in the Fastpass line, not entering through the exit or another place.
Most of the Fastpass lines are wheelchair accessible, so guests with mobility needs would also be able to use the Fastpass return line if they have Fastpasses or are using DAS. (Has been our experience on 4 long WDW trips using DAS).

- At WDW, wheelchair users who are not using DAS use the regular line if it is accessible or the Fastpass line IF they have a Fastpass for that attraction.
If the Regular line is not accessible, but the Fastpass line is, they will be given a wheelchair return time to come back into the Fastpass line at a time roughly equal to 10 minutes less than the current posted wait time.

- For attractions at WDW, where the regular and Fastpass lines are not accessible, those guests will be given a return time for the accessible entrance.
Guests using Fastpass would get a wheelchair return time to start as soon as they come to use their Fastpass.
If there are already too many guests waiting in the return area, guests using DAS or Fastpass do not have any preference over other guests already waiting in the area. They might be given the option to get another wheelchair return time or wait outside of the accessible area. (Matches our experience)
- in our experience at WDW, by the time we get to the boarding area for those with a separate area, the CMs have no way of knowing who got there using DAS or wheelchair return time. And, there is not really space to bring DAS holders past others.

From what I understand, DCA in California works very similarly because most attractions have accessible Mainstream lines.
Because not all the DCA attractions have Fastpass, there may be another entry for DAS holders.

I also understand that Disney has put money into their park budgets and made a commitment to renovate lines to be accessible thru the regular line whenever possible - especially at Disneyland Park.
Since I understand they are going to be bringing Fastpass Plus to the California parks, the long term goal would be to have all guests using DAS use the Fastpass line as the DAS Return line.
lng term plan would be for Guests with mobility needs, but no other needs (no DAS), wait in the 'new' accessible Fastpass or regular lines, depending on if they have Fastpass.
Those with DAS would use the Fastpass line for DAS Return.
The long range plan would be that only those with mobility needs (DAS or not) would use separate mobility entrances if that was the only way the attraction was accessible.

 

[SueM in MN]

You can't compare DL to MK. The FP merge points are much further back. On Space Mountain it is when you enter the building. Depending on how the CM controls the flow of people into the building, you'll an additional 10-20 minutes to be sorted in the loading area. The total wait time often says 40 minutes, but I find it to be closer to 30-35. Still, that's up to half the wait time after the FP and standby merge. If you need the accessible entrance, only 1 car can be pulled out, and it has to return before another can load. There is no area near the platform to wait, so they hold everyone outside.

I'll add that since DAS was introduced I haven't been on Space, Big Thunder, Roger Rabbit or Autopia through the accessible queue, so I don't know if DAS are using those, or going through FP. But on every other ride I can think of in DL, DAS users are going through the exit with wheelchairs, in a single line. And that's how it was with the GAC too. Most people had the stamp that allowed them to enter through the exit. Let's be honest, that was the appeal. The difference now, aside from the DAS users having to get a return time is that the use of wheelchair return times has increased. Prior to DAS we got them a lot less, but in some cases like Space and Pirates had to wait in a much longer line at the attraction.

I realize DL is much different. I was responding specifically to the person I quoted who was specifying Florida in what they said.
Although their FL may have been a typo and meant DL.

 

[Aladora]

I realize DL is much different. I was responding specifically to the person I quoted who was specifying Florida in what they said.
Although their FL may have been a typo and meant DL.

I *think* FL was referencing FantasyLand.

 

[SueM in MN]

That makes sense - and is a good reason why it's probably better to spell things out.

 

[kaytieeldr]

This is the first time that I've heard of this rule. Could you share a link to it? It would be great to understand all the official rules.

I've never heard that either.

It doesn't matter one whit if that's how they designed it, or if it's how they thought they were designing it - that doesn't make it "official policy". If the "official policy" was that DAS users got immediate access upon return, the Disney FAQs and the DAS itself wouldn't say the opposite.

Okay, I've written to Disability Services. I'll post my letter and their response when it arrives.

 

[2tinkerbell]

I do apologize. FL in this case means Fantasyland.

Nevada Jen was complaining that those people with a DAS who are walking and those individuals with the DAS who are in wheelchairs as well as those individuals with wheelchair return times all use the same line - the exit as the entrance.Disneyland in Fantasyland that is the case. Most of the rides do not have FP either as there simply isn't the room for a standby line and a FP line.
I took offense to Nevada Jen's wording and response that because the lines are combined at the exit as the entrance is is a "nightmare."

 

[SueM in MN]

I do apologize. FL in this case means Fantasyland.

Nevada Jen was complaining that those people with a DAS who are walking and those individuals with the DAS who are in wheelchairs as well as those individuals with wheelchair return times all use the same line - the exit as the entrance.Disneyland in Fantasyland that is the case. Most of the rides do not have FP either as there simply isn't the room for a standby line and a FP line.
I took offense to Nevada Jen's wording and response that because the lines are combined at the exit as the entrance is is a "nightmare."

Sorry that I misunderstood.
It gets confusing in threads where people are talking about both DL and WDW.
They are very different in how they work because of the differences between the parks on each coast.

 

[SirDuff]

Okay, I've written to Disability Services. I'll post my letter and their response when it arrives.

Have you heard anything? We have a trip coming up in April, and I'd love to know the official rules (if they are different than those posted/told to us).

 

[kaytieeldr]

Nothing yet, SirDuff. I did get the "we got your message" response. If nothing by Sunday - another one of those days when it'll be impossible to get outside - I'll write again.

 

[WookieeMama]

I go to Disneyland regularly as an AP. The DAS system is crazy. And once you get a DAS it is good for 60 days (because I have an AP) at which time you have to explain once again why you need one. I am uncomfortable sharing my problems and last week I was able to convinced the CM that the issues are the same, there has been no change and I should NOT have to once again share my personal information with a total stranger where anyone in the area can hear what I am saying. My daughter also needs a DAS and goes without me but with friends. The last time she needed to renew her DAS they refused to give her one even though the issues were exactly the same. She ended up going home in tears. I ended up going into City hall and complaining the next time I was in the park. Just because she is a teenager does not mean she does not need the DAS and it is not fair to expect her to tell a total stranger what her problems are. She should be able to just tell them the issues are the same and get it renewed.

 

[lanejudy]

I go to Disneyland regularly as an AP. The DAS system is crazy. And once you get a DAS it is good for 60 days (because I have an AP) at which time you have to explain once again why you need one. I am uncomfortable sharing my problems and last week I was able to convinced the CM that the issues are the same, there has been no change and I should NOT have to once again share my personal information with a total stranger where anyone in the area can hear what I am saying. My daughter also needs a DAS and goes without me but with friends. The last time she needed to renew her DAS they refused to give her one even though the issues were exactly the same. She ended up going home in tears. I ended up going into City hall and complaining the next time I was in the park. Just because she is a teenager does not mean she does not need the DAS and it is not fair to expect her to tell a total stranger what her problems are. She should be able to just tell them the issues are the same and get it renewed.

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with renewals. Are you bringing the expired DAS back with you when we request a new one? There is a code on the back that Guest Relations can scan to bring up your file. If they have that, they are aware of the "original" issues. They may still ask a question or two, but basically just to confirm nothing has changed. If you don't bring the expired card back, I don't believe they have a way to look it up to know. Alternatively, you could put your needs in writing and share the note with the CM if it makes you uncomfortable to discuss things.

Good luck and let us know if this helps any!

ETA: I just realized this is in California where physical cards aren't actually issued anymore. It should be attached to your ticket, but I don't know how well that works with Guest Relations accessing the DAS information for renewals.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I go to Disneyland regularly as an AP. The DAS system is crazy. And once you get a DAS it is good for 60 days (because I have an AP) at which time you have to explain once again why you need one. I am uncomfortable sharing my problems and last week I was able to convinced the CM that the issues are the same, there has been no change and I should NOT have to once again share my personal information with a total stranger where anyone in the area can hear what I am saying. My daughter also needs a DAS and goes without me but with friends. The last time she needed to renew her DAS they refused to give her one even though the issues were exactly the same. She ended up going home in tears. I ended up going into City hall and complaining the next time I was in the park. Just because she is a teenager does not mean she does not need the DAS and it is not fair to expect her to tell a total stranger what her problems are. She should be able to just tell them the issues are the same and get it renewed.

Probably because there are no paper cards any more. While I agree that it makes it a bit ore difficult, if they don't have a record of why you need a DAS, of course they are going to ask again. Explaining the need v. explaining the diagnosis is the key, IMO.

 

[2tinkerbell]

Just guessing here and how, in the perfect world, I think it should work in Disneyland. I would think that since it is attached electronically to the Park Ticket/Annual Pass, that they should be able to scan it and see that a DAS was issued on the Annual Pass. However, I am guessing here, it could be the first time renewing since the elimination of the paper DAS card, the information needs to be entered into the system. Hopefully it will not be a hassle the next time the DAS is renewed.

I am sorry that happened to your DD. Life is hard enough as a teenager and I am sure she was embarrassed in front of her friends. It is hard for a teenager to learn to advocate for themselves, especially in front of their peers. I know my DD would have gone without any accommodations than to have to announce that she needed them. I would have her write out a simple bullet point explanation of her difficulties waiting in the regular queue. I say to have her do it so she knows and can answer any questions. If there are too many questions I would have her friends wait over to the side. Hard situation. Hopefully, in my mind, things should be straightened out now and electronically into the system.

My DD and I are headed to Disneyland again in a couple of months. I plan on taking our old paper DAS card. I did it the last time and it was a breeze to renew. No questions at all. I have no idea what we did differently from you.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Have you heard anything? We have a trip coming up in April, and I'd love to know the official rules (if they are different than those posted/told to us).

I just got off the phone with someone from Walt Disney World (a little surprised to see Hollywood Studios on the caller ID ) who pretty much confirmed Sue's understanding:

My understanding is:
The only '10 minute' time period information I have heard for either WDW or DL is that:
- if the posted wait in the Standby line is 10 minutes or less, the guest requesting to use DAS will be told to enter the regular line, if possible
- if not possible, the guest using DAS may be allowed into the Fastpass line - at the discretion of the CM at the attraction.
- the Return Time given to DAS users will be roughly equal to 10 minutes less than the current posted Standby wait time. People have posted different guesses of why 10 minutes (for example, to make up for walking time), but Disney has not given an official reason.

A 10-15 minute wait in the Fastpass line is the goal, not a guarantee, and has been the goal since I first heard about Fastpass when it rolled out years ago.
Since DAS users will be returning to the Fastpass line, if the attraction has one, the goal for them is the same as other guests in the Fastpass line, a 'short' wait.

No, DAS guests do not get priority over wheelchair guests if a line happens to be longer than the expected ten minutes.

 

[SueM in MN]

I just got off the phone with someone from Walt Disney World (a little surprised to see Hollywood Studios on the caller ID ) who pretty much confirmed Sue's understanding:


No, DAS guests do not get priority over wheelchair guests if a line happens to be longer than the expected ten minutes.

Thanks. I have some pretty good sources.

My DD uses a wheelchair and we use the wheelchair accessible ride cars as much as possible. She also has DAS because of other needs.
At WDW, the only time we have gotten 'priority' over other guests is when we were using Fastpass for an attraction like Jungle Cruise, which has a different accessible entrance. Because we were using Fastpass, we could enter right away. If we were using DAS or using a wheelchair without Fastpass, we would have gotten a Return Time.

The only times anyone else has gotten 'priority' over us at accessible entrances or boarding areas were situations like Toy Story Mania, Kimimanjaro Safari and Imagination where we were waiting for the accessible ride car and others who didn't need it went ahead of us. They do that to keep the area from getting clogged with people waiting.