So, when is enough, enough-high risk pregnancy?

[Hannathy]

There's the difference. These people apparently DO make a habit of asking for, even expecting, help from the members of their church. Plus, while it's likely there will be volunteers, more children makes it harder on the volunteers; probably fewer step forward each time.

Frankly, it sounds to me as if they're taking advantage of others' good will. What's wrong with planning ahead? Line up help before you need it? Arrange for rides for the children and visits for the mom in advance - even before you get pregnant?

You said it better than I did a few pages back. This is what I was trying to say. Everyone needs help ONCE in a while, but when it becomes a habit it can be planned for and isn't unexpected anymore. If these parents want to keep planning these pregnancies then they should also plan and pay for the care of their other children not "depend on the kindness of strangers" so to speak. If they can't pay for the care of the children they already have then it is irresponsible to keep reproducing.

 

[EllenFrasier]

I just got an email from someone from our old town (through a mass email for an old church group). He was announcing that they are expecting child #8. He is also asking for help because she is on bed rest, AGAIN. The only child she has not been on bed rest is their first. I just can't imagine risking my life, and the life of an unborn child, leaving my 7 other children motherless. Would you do this if this were you?

I'm assuming the kind of help the husband is asking for is regarding childcare? I would send him an email with the name of a good doctor that can preform his vasectomy as soon as possible.

 

[DMRick]

Volunteers in churches are usually led by their hearts. But they know if it's not something they can offer, they can say no. If I can help someone to have a healthy baby and take care of their health, I don't have a limit on how many times that help is needed.

Being asked to take some kids to a religious class or visit a person, is just no biggy for me and wouldn't be for most I know in church. I am part of a helping hands group and go where the need is..no matter how many times one family needs me. Our group doesn't have a limit..however, as said, anyone can say no. The OP never said it was expected..simply that she got a note from the email group asking if anyone can help. They didn't ask for money, or food..just a ride for their kids to religious class and some visiting to the mom. Most would prob have visited in any case, if mom was bedridden.

I don't agree at all that fewer will step forward. It's no different than an elderly person that just doesn't want to move out of her home. Yet she can't afford to get someone to shovel (or cut her grass) and our group has been shoveling her out for several years. We don't say, hey, you couldna, shoulda moved, we just help. I feel good, knowing we are helping. My husband is actually great with the elderly (I'm more a baby person) and he'll visit even when there is no grass to cut or snow to shovel.

We have an over abundance of helpers serving meals at our local city mission. For years, the same people have come it. We can often greet the people by name. Should we say, hey, you didn't learn your lesson and you are still on drugs..sorry, we aren't serving you your diner tonight.

It's what most churches do, and most do it without judgement, without question as to why the help is needed.

There's the difference. These people apparently DO make a habit of asking for, even expecting, help from the members of their church. Plus, while it's likely there will be volunteers, more children makes it harder on the volunteers; probably fewer step forward each time.

 

[Hannathy]

Hardly the same comparing ongoing help to the elderly with expecting others to care for your kids.

You can't prevent getting older BUT you can prevent getting pregnant!!!

 

[mhsjax]

Volunteers in churches are usually led by their hearts. But they know if it's not something they can offer, they can say no. If I can help someone to have a healthy baby and take care of their health, I don't have a limit on how many times that help is needed.

Being asked to take some kids to a religious class or visit a person, is just no biggy for me and wouldn't be for most I know in church. I am part of a helping hands group and go where the need is..no matter how many times one family needs me. Our group doesn't have a limit..however, as said, anyone can say no. The OP never said it was expected..simply that she got a note from the email group asking if anyone can help. They didn't ask for money, or food..just a ride for their kids to religious class and some visiting to the mom. Most would prob have visited in any case, if mom was bedridden.

I don't agree at all that fewer will step forward. It's no different than an elderly person that just doesn't want to move out of her home. Yet she can't afford to get someone to shovel (or cut her grass) and our group has been shoveling her out for several years. We don't say, hey, you couldna, shoulda moved, we just help. I feel good, knowing we are helping. My husband is actually great with the elderly (I'm more a baby person) and he'll visit even when there is no grass to cut or snow to shovel.

We have an over abundance of helpers serving meals at our local city mission. For years, the same people have come it. We can often greet the people by name. Should we say, hey, you didn't learn your lesson and you are still on drugs..sorry, we aren't serving you your diner tonight.

It's what most churches do, and most do it without judgement, without question as to why the help is needed.

Excellent post. I agree 100%

 

[DMRick]

Our opinions differ. I do think it's the same. Her daughter has invited her to live with her, and she does have other options. We feel we are helping her stay in her home, without spending money, which is what she wants to do. The point I was making, is this is what most churches do..offer help without judging. The reasons the person needs to be shoveled out don't play into it. I could call and say I had a need, and soon someone would be here to shovel. Although in most cases, someone would just find out I was ill, and they would pass it around and someone would show up to help.

No one has to help, and if you (any you, not just you) feel this gal should not be pregnant because then she has to expect or need others to take her children to religious classes because when she has kids she has to go on bedrest (gee, how often do they have to be taken?) then you would just say no, it's not something you are willing to do, because you don't like the choice she made. And therefore you (again, any you, not meaning this directed at you) feel she has to live with the fact her kids may miss religion, and she may not get any visitors. And she may be fine with that, and accept that no one wants to continue to help her. But I would be shocked if many many people not only came forward in our church, but many meals would be delivered as well, even if it wasn't expected or asked for.

Hardly the same comparing ongoing help to the elderly with expecting others to care for your kids.

You can't prevent getting older BUT you can prevent getting pregnant!!!

 

[tlbwriter]

Our opinions differ. I do think it's the same. Her daughter has invited her to live with her, and she does have other options. We feel we are helping her stay in her home, without spending money, which is what she wants to do. The point I was making, is this is what most churches do..offer help without judging. The reasons the person needs to be shoveled out don't play into it. I could call and say I had a need, and soon someone would be here to shovel. Although in most cases, someone would just find out I was ill, and they would pass it around and someone would show up to help.

No one has to help, and if you (any you, not just you) feel this gal should not be pregnant because then she has to expect or need others to take her children to religious classes because when she has kids she has to go on bedrest (gee, how often do they have to be taken?) then you would just say no, it's not something you are willing to do, because you don't like the choice she made. And therefore you (again, any you, not meaning this directed at you) feel she has to live with the fact her kids may miss religion, and she may not get any visitors. And she may be fine with that, and accept that no one wants to continue to help her. But I would be shocked if many many people not only came forward in our church, but many meals would be delivered as well, even if it wasn't expected or asked for.

To me, the fact that anyone is willing to help still doesn't make it okay for you to deliberately put yourself in that position in the first place. I don't know about your church, but at mine, there is the same core group of people who always helps out, and those people can get burned out. I feel that volunteers such as the church group, programs like WIC and food stamps, etc., should be available for people who fall upon hard times. But their time, attention, and money get used up by people who deliberately jump into hard times. If you intentionally plan and live your life a certain way because you know that when you do fall, there's a safety net of volunteers to catch you, does that mean your way of life is healthy and successful? Or wouldn't it be better to just try not to fall?

(And as someone said upthread, the aging woman who wants to stay home is not a good comparison. Aging is not a choice. This woman's pregnancy is.)

 

[gingajane]

God expects us to have common sense. He gave us more than functioning brain stems for a reason. How many is too many? I don't know, but endangering yourself and leaving 7 little ones behind seems irresponsible and selfish.

 

[DMRick]

To me, the fact that anyone is willing to help still doesn't make it okay for you to deliberately put yourself in that position in the first place. I don't know about your church, but at mine, there is the same core group of people who always helps out, and those people can get burned out.

Not knowing why this woman is on bedrest, I don't have an answer to if she deliberately set out to need help.

But all of us on the list that are willing to help, have so many hours to give, it doesn't matter who we give it to. If I can make a difference in this family's life, by making sure that mom is able to stay in bed, stay healthy and have a healthy baby, then I will. If I or others don't have the time to help, then her kids would be skipping religion classes. It's not like they said, if people don't bring food, we'll starve. They didn't ask for help for food or money, so I'll have to assume she has covered in advance what she could. I don't even know if she asked for help, or if someone close to her in church offered it to her. Maybe she didn't intend for her kids to go to religion classes while she was laid up. Maybe she hadn't intended to ask for visitors.

I have no idea what God has in mind for each of these children she has had..that's up to Him.

I don't agree that it matters who is taking up the time of the helping hands group..an aging woman with choices that wants to stay in her home (and this could go on for years, where she needs to be shoveled several times a week, or have her lawn mowed) or a woman who may feel that God is giving her children for a reason. Anyone in the group could decide that isn't what they want to take care of, and that is fine.

I happen to think you can't compare government works, such as wic and food stamps to a church that has a helping group in place. The church is having help offered by volunteers who want to help..that is the point of the group they have joined. It's not costing you (again you as in any you) anything in government taxes. If you choose not to participate, then you don't have to. After reading this thread, I'm actually extra proud of our group. I've never had anyone question when someone needs help..never, and our group is over 25 years old (wow, I was surprised when I looked that up!). Not everyone can help all the time, but if they can they will, no matter what the reason.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

If it was my daughter, I would argue with her about it. But I don't know this lady, so I don't really care.

Would I do it? Well... no and yes.

My wife had severe hyperemisis, to the point where she lost weight and was hospitalized, and some post-birthing issues with our daughter, but we had a second child a few years later.

Would I have eight kids? You're kidding, right?

 

[DMRick]

I'm with you there LOL. I don't even like having 8 foster kittens LOL.

Would I have eight kids? You're kidding, right?

 

[teriyaki]

I am not politically correct and I like it that way.

And you know what? I wouldnt be helping out every time. You want to do the hibbity dibbity and have those kids, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Oh my gosh. I've never heard it called hibbity dibbity, but you can bet I'm going to add it to by vocab.!