So What's Coming to the New Pleasure Island?

[Luv2Roam]

And if it was always about making the money -- why not just bulldoze IaSW, build a high tech parking and charge premium fees to park there?
Afterall, IaSW isn't bringing in any income. The premium parking lot would be a home run cash cow.
No one begrudges any business from making profit. That is their intentions.
But if the powers that be want a pretty outdoor strip mall, then just be up front about it. It is what is it. That must appeal to many.
Spending high dollar on a fancy lighting system will create some oohs and ahhs. But beyond that....
What gets people most was taking away, but not really replacing with anything of substance.
Again, glad they are helping the local economy, and glad SOMETHING is happening. Just still no draw other than the norm, IMO.

 

[TisBit]

I don't know where you got your information, but it's dead wrong. 8-Traxx and Mannequins were the money-makers on PI; enough on an annual basis to make an impact even on WDW's massive bottom line. AC was modestly profitable--possibly more so if you include admission tickets used only there and especially if you include Jungle Juice, but I don't know that even TDO has formal numbers on this. CW rarely drew a crowd, and never made money, based on the short format of the shows--it was the weakest link.

One more time--Pleasure Island was profitable. Insanely profitable. But it required management by Disney. Disney would rather play landlord and simply collect rent, like a mall owner. Outsourcing PI, restaurants and valet parking was the easy first step; there will be more to come.

I am not sure where you get your info, but those two clubs impacting WDW bottom line significantly....doubt that. Yes, they were the busier of two clubs and alcohol sales there were easy as far as a club goes...but no way do they compare anywhere to theme park income, resorts or even merchandise sales. No one leaves WDW without buying something....lots of people don't buy a drink at those clubs.

I also never said that PI was losing money, but they weren't bringing in enough to keep them....otherwise if the theme that Disney is just pulling off money grabs would mean they would have stayed. As far as CW, yes...its old format was not good (except to turn over more shows in a night) and AC had serious overcrowding issues....with a bigger venue two bars, etc it would have made a killing.

As far as changes to come, absolutely there will be a lot of changes, some good some bad. All companies go the outsourcing/insourcing revolving door, looking to find the best value for their dollar.....if anyone thinks WDW will stop changing or fine tuning their business, you are being foolish.

And if it was always about making the money -- why not just bulldoze IaSW, build a high tech parking and charge premium fees to park there?
Afterall, IaSW isn't bringing in any income. The premium parking lot would be a home run cash cow.
No one begrudges any business from making profit. That is their intentions.
But if the powers that be want a pretty outdoor strip mall, then just be up front about it. It is what is it. That must appeal to many.
Spending high dollar on a fancy lighting system will create some oohs and ahhs. But beyond that....
What gets people most was taking away, but not really replacing with anything of substance.
Again, glad they are helping the local economy, and glad SOMETHING is happening. Just still no draw other than the norm, IMO.

I don't see where Disney has tried to disguise what they are building. It is a shopping destination, with a theme of a Wharf area. Animal Kingdom is not Africa, it is themed that way to make you think you are there. Most people fail to realize acknowledge while there are a LOT of PI fans out there (mostly AC fans are the most diehard) but there are TONS of people that never cared to visit PI and while you might draw different people, the new area will most likely draw more people into it (the dreaded families).

 

[Luv2Roam]

Glad to hear Disney will be promoting this for what it is -- an outsde shopping mall.
By "dreaded families" guessing you are assuming general PI attendees/adults were/are not family oriented, or do not like families.
Don't understand that logic. But that certainly is not the case with me.
Although I do think Disney caters most of their business now to those with kids. Which I think is a step in the wrong direction. But that is just my opinion. Like everything else, that will go turn around eventually too is my guess.

 

[patsal]

No one leaves WDW without buying something....lots of people don't buy a drink at those clubs.

I go at least once per year for 14 days and an ocasional short visit of 3-5 days and I often leave without buying something. I pay for theme park passes (AP's now since PI admission is not needed) and get nothing else very often. I'm sure I am the minority, but still it is very possible to visit WDW and not spend any money there beyond theme park passes.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

The big business defenders are back, I see.

They've told me why I'm "foolish" but I respectfully disagree. What is truly foolish is to think that the ONLY way to make money is by being bland and predictable. Walt should have proven to all that BIG rewards would follow BIG innovation. Further, Jobs proved the point again with the original PIXAR. But some will continue to show no appreciation to the very reasons Disney became special in the first place.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

The big business defenders are back, I see.

They've told me why I'm "foolish" but I respectfully disagree. What is truly foolish is to think that the ONLY way to make money is by being bland and predictable. Walt should have proven to all that BIG rewards would follow BIG innovation. Further, Jobs proved the point again with the original PIXAR. But some will continue to show no appreciation to the very reasons Disney became special in the first place.

Well said.

MG

 

[Luv2Roam]

Again, the closing of the clubs. Okay, stuff happens. We move on. As one of the CW cast said, no actor goes into a role thinking it will last forever.
One problem was promising "a bold new vision" for all of Downtown Disney over the next two years ago. (Well, if a bold new vision means empty buildings and walkways. Yeah, I guess that is a bold move. )
And we all would understand when the economy went south suddenly that businesses back down. Completely understandable.
But now 2+ years later -- promising an enhanced walkway with fancy lights.
oooooooo
AMC Theatre and Lego expanding or improving was a given. Doesn't take a psychic or MBA to figure that one.
Who here can't say they don't have a similar or maybe better shopping area near them?
That's where Disney missed the mark. Shopping centers and malls have drastically improved and offer lots of perks and even entertainment to entice shoppers.

 

[TisBit]

The big business defenders are back, I see.

They've told me why I'm "foolish" but I respectfully disagree. What is truly foolish is to think that the ONLY way to make money is by being bland and predictable. Walt should have proven to all that BIG rewards would follow BIG innovation. Further, Jobs proved the point again with the original PIXAR. But some will continue to show no appreciation to the very reasons Disney became special in the first place.

Actually, I think business folks and innovation folks aren't that far off...if you go back to my original post...most companies inlcluding apple, pixar, disney will get to a point that they become more business than innovation. Your best retailers that become chains and national power houses have done the gone the same way. Best Buy used to be a top notch, customer first orgainization in the early mid 90's. Now they are one of the most non customer friendly businesses out there (the most stringent unaccomodating return policy around).....

It is more the evolution of a company (expecially public traded companies) that causes these problems...even Walt wouldn't have been able to stop some of this and even the concept of PI may have never been developed under him.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Actually, I think business folks and innovation folks aren't that far off...if you go back to my original post...most companies inlcluding apple, pixar, disney will get to a point that they become more business than innovation. Your best retailers that become chains and national power houses have done the gone the same way. Best Buy used to be a top notch, customer first orgainization in the early mid 90's. Now they are one of the most non customer friendly businesses out there (the most stringent unaccomodating return policy around).....

It is more the evolution of a company (expecially public traded companies) that causes these problems...even Walt wouldn't have been able to stop some of this and even the concept of PI may have never been developed under him.

Were Walt a younger man I'm quite sure WDW as we know it wouldn't even exist. He would have built his EPCOT and moved on from there but the point in envoking Walt isn't what he would do with the Disney Company were he around today but rather what that Company stands for and there is no rationale that suggests that Walt's ideals couldn't be successful in the 21st Century given a leadership that actually cares about something other than just making money for money's sake - although we all agree that the money part is important. A visionary leader could make Disney special again to the cheers of Wall Street, if they could just find that visionary leader (and it isn't
Iger).

Back to the strip mall. Even that idea is not bad in context, Making money off the mundane isn't evil and it must be done to fulfill the dreams (that we all dream for) but Disney once stood for quality and the 'exceed the guests expectation' attitude whether be at the Parks, in a hotel, a restaurant, a restroom or a walk along a garden path. Giving us the great strip mall is one thing in conjunction with great imagination in the Parks but Disney didn't give us Harry Potter, they gave us the American Idol experience, so this strip mall seems to be the best of what they can offer these days and that's the problem.

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I still think we should withhold judgment until we know what shops and restaurants are going into all those places. Those are the things that will either wow us or disappoint us. We've only been told the theme of the place which by itself isn't that important.

BobK/Orlando
www.savepleasureisland.blogspot.com

 

[DC7800]

I still think we should withhold judgment until we know what shops and restaurants are going into all those places. Those are the things that will either wow us or disappoint us.

That is a very good point. Indeed, do we even know if Disney has tenants lined up for these locations (and which won't back out this time)? If not, is it remotely possible this project could be another Flamingo Crossings?

Such speculation is way premature (and probably baseless), but Disney's inability to fill the former club buildings (or sell Flamingo Crossings' parcels) was never entirely due to the economy.

 

[Luv2Roam]

My gut feeling is they will shoot for high end, due to Four Seasons and Golden Oak nearby. Those properties alone will include those in a high income bracket used to better dining.
But just speculation on my part.

 

[TDC Nala]

I do like the possibility for more restaurants that don't take the dining plan.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

The big business defenders are back, I see.

They've told me why I'm "foolish" but I respectfully disagree. What is truly foolish is to think that the ONLY way to make money is by being bland and predictable. Walt should have proven to all that BIG rewards would follow BIG innovation. Further, Jobs proved the point again with the original PIXAR. But some will continue to show no appreciation to the very reasons Disney became special in the first place.

I agree.

Here's my idea (and Disney can steal it and not pay me a penny)!

Create an "interesting" visual space that would accommodate both Adventurer's Club style entertainment and a comedy improv show a la Comedy Warehouse. Make it an upscale dinner show that would attract the upscale guests of Four Seasons/Golden Oaks as well as more adult Disney guests. Alternate the theming- 3 nights a week (Maybe Fri, Sun, Wed.) do the Comedy dinner show, 4 nights a week (Maybe Mon, Tues, Thurs, Sat) do the Adventurer's Club Interactive dinner show. This way they can create something that would attract their new desired clientele, avoid the problems of the "old" PI (after they started killing it) and would pack people in. By having the two favorites share one space and just alternate days, it would increase the likelihood of packed performances.

 

[TisBit]

Were Walt a younger man I'm quite sure WDW as we know it wouldn't even exist. He would have built his EPCOT and moved on from there but the point in envoking Walt isn't what he would do with the Disney Company were he around today but rather what that Company stands for and there is no rationale that suggests that Walt's ideals couldn't be successful in the 21st Century given a leadership that actually cares about something other than just making money for money's sake - although we all agree that the money part is important. A visionary leader could make Disney special again to the cheers of Wall Street, if they could just find that visionary leader (and it isn't
Iger).

Back to the strip mall. Even that idea is not bad in context, Making money off the mundane isn't evil and it must be done to fulfill the dreams (that we all dream for) but Disney once stood for quality and the 'exceed the guests expectation' attitude whether be at the Parks, in a hotel, a restaurant, a restroom or a walk along a garden path. Giving us the great strip mall is one thing in conjunction with great imagination in the Parks but Disney didn't give us Harry Potter, they gave us the American Idol experience, so this strip mall seems to be the best of what they can offer these days and that's the problem.

And this is where I can say we do agree...you have to keep the business side as well as some innovation going. I agree that there hasn't been great innovation and some of the good things they did, failed due to quality issues (The Yeti ) which would have never happened in the old. The parades suck in my opinion. Instead of coming up with new ones, they just shuttle them between parks, it would be great to see some good old fashioned imagineering on a new parade with all new floats.

As for Harry Potter, I think it was very innovative for Universal, but honestly retheming the majority of it was not innovation....it does appear they got one very good ride, but I don't want to see one good thing from anyone and call it innovation. Universal needs to continue and not hang their hat on that one ride, in 5-10 years it will be as mundane as the rest of the rides.

Disney can also take a look at their new rides, I would rather wait extra time and have awesome rides come in, rather get a hastily constructed run of the mill ride just to say they added it.

 

[clkelley]

and AC had serious overcrowding issues....with a bigger venue two bars, etc it would have made a killing.

Actually AC had THREE bars. The main bar downstairs, the one in the library, and there was also a bar upstairs. The bar upstairs remained closed in the later years. (If you count the outside bar, they actually had four bars!!)

 

[anthony2k7]

seems both universal and duffy the bear are finally catching on to how going to Universal is the answer if you fancy a beer and some fun!

http://orlandoparksnews.blogspot.com/2010/11/universal-studios-florida-photo-update.html

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Demolition walls are up surrounding Rock'n'Roll Beach Club and Motion.
Photos at: www.savepleasureisland.blogspot.com

BobK/Orlando

 

[CapnZach]

As you can tell from my avatar I'm obviously an AC fan, but ragging on this because it is a shopping center seems foolish. Downtown disney is a retail center. That included the original PI (food service/night clubs are essentially different facets of retail). They wouldn't install attractions at a free center, so what, should it be themed office space?

Since Disney decided they didn't like being in the night club business, that meant by default it would be restaurant/retail space. There is no indication that this project forbids the inclusion of night clubs or entertainment venues, this is just a re-theming of the area. AC is not going to come back, and it will never be an adult's only type venue. They tried that, it mostly failed, they are going in a new direction.

The new theme seems on par with any other quality Disney themed experience from the concept art/description. It just depends on how they fill it. Will it be the Main Street USA of Magic Shops and Penny Arcades or the Main Street USA of a never-ending Emporium? Only time will tell. But regardless, the mega-Emporium may be a negative trend in my book, but it doesn't diminish the quality of the overall land. Let's give Disney a chance to see what they can come up with and what they can attract before we tear it down.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Let's not beat around the bush here....the plans are embarassing


They are resorting the the tricks that they alledgedly "detested" from the day disneyland opened:

cheap knockoff tourist traps that suck people away from their parks.

now they just throw themed, dime-a-dozen, outsourced retail locations up...only now they put them on their land, charge a percentage, and wash their hands of it.

I'm not at all surprised or disappointed...you have to know that this was going to be the case.

seriously...why not just put a chuck e cheese and a panera in and be done with it?