So what makes FP+ so bad?

[BuckeyeBama]

I used to pull 183,349 FP- per day, but the limit of 3/day is okay.

 

[Mommy2Corinne]

I agree with everything mentioned already but just wanted to emphasizes the ones the stuck out to us this weekend.

I dislike the new system #1 because the website/apps just don't work so you really can't use it as intended. They absolutely need a reliable system and in park WiFi before they start forcing this on guest. I used the system when it was being tested this fall and just used it again the past weekend at EPCOT and Magic Kingdom. We had SO MANY issues this time. I was able to prebook, but it would randomly split off one of my kids and put them on different rides. In the actual parks, the app wasn't working well either day so you had to find an in-park portal and once you got through the 15-30 minute line the system kept dropping people from my party on the FP reservation. Also, image having to find a portal and wait in line every time you need to make a change b/c the app wasn't working.
#2 I dislike the number of fastpasses that I'm limited to, three is bad enough but for the parks with tiers it's really only one fastpass.
#3 Day of flexibility doesn't really exist if you want to ride the main attractions. Ex: I booked a fastpass for Test Track and the ride went down(all the time at Test Track) before the park even opened and the system automatically changed us to one of the lower tier attractions. I tried to change it to Soarin day of and it wasn't available any time that day. Same thing in Magic Kingdom, Thunder Mountain was down and there was no availability for any of the main attractions (Space, Peter Pan, Jungle, Belle) left for the entire day, this was at 11:00 in the morning.
#4 The system has increased standby waits for rides. They also try and force you on attractions that don't/haven't previously needed fastpass. We waited an hour for Pirates this weekend.

You waited an hour for pirates during one of the lowest crowd weeks of the year????!!?

Ugh. This makes me so sad! Pirates was always basically a walk on for us as was IASW (which I hear now also has long lines). What have they done??

I agree with everyone else regarding all of the negatives.

I keep hoping against hope that Disney will come to its senses with this whole mess. Why not utilize the MBs/kiosks in the parks to act just as FP- did except it could all be paperless? Use GPS type locators on phones to allow access to book rides from phones while you are in the park (or through the MBs themselves at touchpoints at the rides if they are still worried about capacity) within certain windows (just like the old FP- windows)?

This would seem to allow for all kinds of flexibility while still allowing them to save face by using their "wonderful" new technology. It would seem to get rid of the need for rationing and tiering (they didn't need it with FP-, so if you kept the basic parameters the same it would follow that you wouldn't need it with a similar paperless option either).

*Sigh.* I know it's not likely, but a girl can dream, right?

 

[Poly-Anna]

I am slightly dreading how this summer is going to go. We have not tried the new system, but, I don't like it already. I am afraid that it's going to create longer lines everywhere. I think it was a mistake to change it. The old system, everyone was equal. No extra money to ride favorite rides multiple times.

but alas, if the system works, let's change it!


If Disney starts charging for extra fast passes will it change your resort staying habits?

We stay club level. I do not like the idea of paying to have more fast passes. I do not like the idea of waiting in longer lines (that are long to begin with). I think they will be longer with the new system. Last, I do not like green eggs and ham.

The FP+ is exactly why we are going to Universal and SW this summer and skipping WDW. I find the FP+ system absurd. Disney is expensive enough. For 2 people a 4 day pass is $600+. For that amount I can get 2 Universal annual passes which includes all the discounts for hotels, restaurants and stores! Plus we only stay on site at Universal and the Express Pass perk for resorts guests beats anything Disney can do. The hotels at Universal are awesome and cheaper. It's a no-brainer for us.

 

[think-like-tink]

The FP+ is exactly why we are going to Universal and SW this summer and skipping WDW. I find the FP+ system absurd. Disney is expensive enough. For 2 people a 4 day pass is $600+. For that amount I can get 2 Universal annual passes which includes all the discounts for hotels, restaurants and stores! Plus we only stay on site at Universal and the Express Pass perk for resorts guests beats anything Disney can do. The hotels at Universal are awesome and cheaper. It's a no-brainer for us.

I get that. now let's hold hands and sing Michael Jacksons song "you are not alone".

 

[JimmyV]

In regards to tiering and booking 60 days out, first, no one needs to do the latter, but that would change if tiering were to be abolished. Earlier in this thread there was a discussion about "day of" booking. But forget that. It isn't as if your only options are 60 days out and morning of. No one has reported not being able to book what they want 10, 7, or 2 days ahead of time. At least not yet. So if booking 60 days out is an issue for you, then don't do it. People are treating FP+ as if it is the equivalent of getting a dinner ADR at BoG where you need to be 180+10 days out and still be lucky. But this isn't the case.

Which brings us to tiering. Were it to be abolished, you might very well turn FP+ into a "race" the way it is now for certain ADRs. Do you really want that? Take tiering away at Epcot and 100% of all guests with kids who meet the height requirements will book both Soarin' and TT. All this will accomplish is to ensure that all FPs will be sold out before the park opens which destroys the flexibility and spontaneity that Disney is now marketing. And once people come to terms with the fact that these rides will book full before the park opens, they will push back their booking dates to 7 days in advance, and then 10 after 7 becomes no good, and then 20, then 30 until you get to 60. So if you eliminate tiering, you will be guaranteeing that you have to book 60 days out. The old "TSM Death March" will become the "TSM Race To The Computer" 60 days in advance. So while you may not like tiering and the 60 day window, you have to realize that you have to have one or the other. And adding more FPs is not the solution because that would simply guarantee that every guest will book Soarin', TT and TSM before they leave from home ensuring that those FPs sell out in advance. Disney does not want FP+ to turn into a competitive sport the way ADRs for CRT, BoG and others have become. I understand the angst here, but some of the proposed fixes being discussed here would ruin the very purpose (according to Disney) of the new system. I don't like FP+, but I do recognize that if it is to exist, it has to have certain of the features that many hate or else it will become either a race to the computers on your 60th day, or a race to the kiosks on the day of arrival. Limiting people to 3 FP+s and tiering the choices helps to keep bookings at a more even pace allowing availability even up to the day of arrival, or perhaps a day or two in advance.

 

[nugov2]

I agree with everything mentioned already but just wanted to emphasizes the ones the stuck out to us this weekend.

I dislike the new system #1 because the website/apps just don't work so you really can't use it as intended. They absolutely need a reliable system and in park WiFi before they start forcing this on guest. I used the system when it was being tested this fall and just used it again the past weekend at EPCOT and Magic Kingdom. We had SO MANY issues this time. I was able to prebook, but it would randomly split off one of my kids and put them on different rides. In the actual parks, the app wasn't working well either day so you had to find an in-park portal and once you got through the 15-30 minute line the system kept dropping people from my party on the FP reservation. Also, image having to find a portal and wait in line every time you need to make a change b/c the app wasn't working.
#2 I dislike the number of fastpasses that I'm limited to, three is bad enough but for the parks with tiers it's really only one fastpass.
#3 Day of flexibility doesn't really exist if you want to ride the main attractions. Ex: I booked a fastpass for Test Track and the ride went down(all the time at Test Track) before the park even opened and the system automatically changed us to one of the lower tier attractions. I tried to change it to Soarin day of and it wasn't available any time that day. Same thing in Magic Kingdom, Thunder Mountain was down and there was no availability for any of the main attractions (Space, Peter Pan, Jungle, Belle) left for the entire day, this was at 11:00 in the morning.
#4 The system has increased standby waits for rides. They also try and force you on attractions that don't/haven't previously needed fastpass. We waited an hour for Pirates this weekend.

And there is the truth. You really are getting just one...the rest you wouldn't have needed one anyway. It is a trick, but new park visitors won't get that.

 

[kbelle8995]

I don't like the 60 days reservation window. Yep that's me. The FP has always been limited so I am used to that but the two months reservation leaves me cold. Also no park hopping contigent. That will change I think Disney makes too much money from park hopper tickets.

I plan to be in the MK on Friday. If I can tour the way I like than I'm fine with it. I look upon this as an interesting experiment.

 

[mom2rtk]

In regards to tiering and booking 60 days out, first, no one needs to do the latter, but that would change if tiering were to be abolished. Earlier in this thread there was a discussion about "day of" booking. But forget that. It isn't as if your only options are 60 days out and morning of. No one has reported not being able to book what they want 10, 7, or 2 days ahead of time. At least not yet. So if booking 60 days out is an issue for you, then don't do it. People are treating FP+ as if it is the equivalent of getting a dinner ADR at BoG where you need to be 180+10 days out and still be lucky. But this isn't the case.

Which brings us to tiering. Were it to be abolished, you might very well turn FP+ into a "race" the way it is now for certain ADRs. Do you really want that? Take tiering away at Epcot and 100% of all guests with kids who meet the height requirements will book both Soarin' and TT. All this will accomplish is to ensure that all FPs will be sold out before the park opens which destroys the flexibility and spontaneity that Disney is now marketing. And once people come to terms with the fact that these rides will book full before the park opens, they will push back their booking dates to 7 days in advance, and then 10 after 7 becomes no good, and then 20, then 30 until you get to 60. So if you eliminate tiering, you will be guaranteeing that you have to book 60 days out. The old "TSM Death March" will become the "TSM Race To The Computer" 60 days in advance. So while you may not like tiering and the 60 day window, you have to realize that you have to have one or the other. And adding more FPs is not the solution because that would simply guarantee that every guest will book Soarin', TT and TSM before they leave from home ensuring that those FPs sell out in advance. Disney does not want FP+ to turn into a competitive sport the way ADRs for CRT, BoG and others have become. I understand the angst here, but some of the proposed fixes being discussed here would ruin the very purpose (according to Disney) of the new system. I don't like FP+, but I do recognize that if it is to exist, it has to have certain of the features that many hate or else it will become either a race to the computers on your 60th day, or a race to the kiosks on the day of arrival. Limiting people to 3 FP+s and tiering the choices helps to keep bookings at a more even pace allowing availability even up to the day of arrival, or perhaps a day or two in advance.

CRT really doesn't cause the angst it used to. We book it on every trip, and honestly I don't worry about doing it first any more. If I decide a month or 2 after our booking window opened that I want to move things around, I'm usually confident I'll find the CRT opening I want. It's been that way since they added a characters for all 3 meals of the day and started seating at all times of day continuously. It's a beautiful thing what added capacity can do.

I agree with what you say about tiering. I know they are telling people they are looking at it, but they wouldn't have added it in the first place if they didn't HAVE to. But here's the interesting part....... MK is not tiered. Yet once the Mine Coaster opens, the scenario you laid out with Epcot is what will happen there. Every guest scheduling FPs for that park will choose that ride. It will be very interesting to watch play out.

 

[JimmyV]

CRT really doesn't cause the angst it used to. We book it on every trip, and honestly I don't worry about doing it first any more. If I decide a month or 2 after our booking window opened that I want to move things around, I'm usually confident I'll find the CRT opening I want. It's been that way since they added a characters for all 3 meals of the day and started seating at all times of day continuously. It's a beautiful thing what added capacity can do.

I agree with what you say about tiering. I know they are telling people they are looking at it, but they wouldn't have added it in the first place if they didn't HAVE to. But here's the interesting part....... MK is not tiered. Yet once the Mine Coaster opens, the scenario you laid out with Epcot is what will happen there. Every guest scheduling FPs for that park will choose that ride. It will be very interesting to watch play out.

You're right about CRT, but I use that as the most famous example of the "have to set my alarm and hit redial 30 times to get an ADR" scenario. We don't ever want FPs to be like that.

MK is not tiered because there are so many options. Parents are just as likely to use FP+ to bypass a horrid Meet-n-Greet line as they are to ride Space Mountain. But you are right that when the Mine Coaster opens, it will become the FP equivalent of a dinner ADR at BoG. It will be interesting to see how Disney reacts to a ride with no FP availability 20-30 (if not 60) days in advance and SB lines of 150 minutes. :confused

 

[redrosesix]

I usually just lurk on these but I do not know what park I want to go to 60 or even 30 days out. I have no issue with the digital FP. I don't like the excessive preplanning. If I were in charge they would all be day of or no more than 2 weeks out.

Same -- we don't do DDP specifically because we would have to book so far in advance to get what we want. We do the dining plan at SW because we can basically just walk in to any restaurant we want to eat at.

If they would treat FP+ like credits and let me use then like dining credits, I'd be cool with it. If I buy a 4 Day ticket, give me 12 FPs total, and let me use them however I choose.

Like! I was thinking along the same lines, but have it based on resort stay. Two years ago we did 3 parks in 1 day on our last day -- we were super commandos hitting all of our favourite rides and it was a ball. But that was the last day of a 6 day ticket, 5 of which we toured the lazy way and took breaks in the afternoons to swim. I'd like the option of not going on rides when I really don't feel like it, but not loosing the chance to go another day.

A lot is being made about "having" to plan 60 days out. So how many people on here have been unable to get a FP for an attraction they wanted when they tried to do so upon a morning arrival in the park? I'm not talking about being unable to get your desired time because we had no choice about the return time with the old system, jut being able to get one at all. And I'm specifying a morning arrival because some FP's would be gone by lunch under the old system.

Do you really have to plan 60 days out under the system at this moment or can you actually walk into a park and snag a FP+ for the attraction you want?

I can't get what I want for next week! Unless you're counting the rides we'll be doing after midnight on the Saturday of Pres Wknd. ie I can only get them for times I don't need them, and some I can't get at all (including some tier 2 rides that I just threw in there because I need to choose 3).

Yes, you do need to book 60 days in advance since everyone else can, and now the off-siters will be booking 60 days in advance.

I don't know how they could ever make it less than 60 days now that it is 60 days. People who are returning from trips are still able to keep booking fp's so all future guests need to have that same 60 day window. They're not going to be able to put that one back in the box.

I agree with all of the criticisms and like all of the suggestions in this thread. The 3=1 comment is sooooo true!

 

[mom2rtk]

You're right about CRT, but I use that as the most famous example of the "have to set my alarm and hit redial 30 times to get an ADR" scenario. We don't ever want FPs to be like that.

MK is not tiered because there are so many options. Parents are just as likely to use FP+ to bypass a horrid Meet-n-Greet line as they are to ride Space Mountain. But you are right that when the Mine Coaster opens, it will become the FP equivalent of a dinner ADR at BoG. It will be interesting to see how Disney reacts to a ride with no FP availability 20-30 (if not 60) days in advance and SB lines of 150 minutes. :confused

The very first time we ate at CRT it really WAS like that. All slots filled in less than 5 minutes. Synchronize your watch with the clock at the Naval Observatory.... and all of that.

My only point with that is they solved that problem. With more capacity. Not by tweaking their reservation system.

And yes, the Mine Coaster is going to be interesting to watch unfold. If it causes people to be online 60 days out, then they aren't just going to book that ride. They are probably also going to be booking the rest of their rides at 60 days out.

 

[redrosesix]

The very first time we ate at CRT it really WAS like that. All slots filled in less than 5 minutes. Synchronize your watch with the clock at the Naval Observatory.... and all of that.

My only point with that is they solved that problem. With more capacity. Not by tweaking their reservation system.

And yes, the Mine Coaster is going to be interesting to watch unfold. If it causes people to be online 60 days out, then they aren't just going to book that ride. They are probably also going to be booking the rest of their rides at 60 days out.

OMG you are so right Wonder which other FP+ will fill up first...

I can totally see people cancelling/rescheduling their trips if they can't get SM, BTMRR and SDMR 59 days out.

 

[MacDalt]

You mean, besides only 3/day, only in 1 park/day, only 1 FP/attraction, no pre-booking FPs for offsite guests, and tiering? Besides those things?

None of these things bothers me or affects my touring. Maybe the tiering but I can deal with that.

 

[2Tiggies]

Why not utilize the MBs/kiosks in the parks to act just as FP- did except it could all be paperless? Use GPS type locators on phones to allow access to book rides from phones while you are in the park (or through the MBs themselves at touchpoints at the rides if they are still worried about capacity) within certain windows (just like the old FP- windows)?

This would seem to allow for all kinds of flexibility while still allowing them to save face by using their "wonderful" new technology. It would seem to get rid of the need for rationing and tiering (they didn't need it with FP-, so if you kept the basic parameters the same it would follow that you wouldn't need it with a similar paperless option either).

*Sigh.* I know it's not likely, but a girl can dream, right?

This is exactly what I would have liked to see, in my ideal world. FP worked wonderfully before the enforced the return time, and pretty darn well for us (we got over it and learned to adapt ) even with enforced return times. We just had better toned legs from more zig-zagging across the parks to collect more.

 

[2Tiggies]

But here's the interesting part....... MK is not tiered. Yet once the Mine Coaster opens, the scenario you laid out with Epcot is what will happen there. Every guest scheduling FPs for that park will choose that ride. It will be very interesting to watch play out.

Almost makes me hope that they delay it further until after our trip .....

 

[Senator Tressel]

Once you have used all 3 FP for the day, if there are still more available, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to pick up more at that point. It's a silly limitation. If you've used three already, everyone else has had plenty of time to make their own reservations.

 

[mom2rtk]

Once you have used all 3 FP for the day, if there are still more available, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to pick up more at that point. It's a silly limitation. If you've used three already, everyone else has had plenty of time to make their own reservations.

I actually think the limits could leave FPs unused at the end of the day. I really doubt that's what Disney has in mind. So the big question is..... how do they intend to use any "leftovers"?

1) They could sell them.
2) They could use them to incentivize guests to stay at more expensive resorts.
3) They could use them to "surprise and delight" guests.
4) They could just let guests schedule them above their normal 3.


I really think option 4 is looking less and less likely. I think this painful year of testing has been all about adjusting our expectations downward so that when they decide to bestow extras upon us later we will see them as a bonus as opposed to them just giving back what we always had for free.

 

[JimmyV]

I actually think the limits could leave FPs unused at the end of the day. I really doubt that's what Disney has in mind. So the big question is..... how do they intend to use any "leftovers"?

1) They could sell them.
2) They could use them to incentivize guests to stay at more expensive resorts.
3) They could use them to "surprise and delight" guests.
4) They could just let guests schedule them above their normal 3.


I really think option 4 is looking less and less likely. I think this painful year of testing has been all about adjusting our expectations downward so that when they decide to bestow extras upon us later we will see them as a bonus as opposed to them just giving back what we always had for free.

But mathematically, are there any "leftovers"? Suppose that every person with a 4:00-5:00 return time fails to return for that ride. But every person with a 5:00-6:00 return time does return on schedule. If Disney concluded that the unused FPs were "leftovers, (and it could not reach that conclusion until 5:01), and it decided to redistribute those FPs for the 5:00-6:00 (or 6:00-7:00) time slots, it would bog down those times with extra people. I suppose if FPs are not distributed for the final hour of park operation, they could squeeze the extras in there. But many people won't stay that late, and crowd levels in the last hour of operation are usually such that FPs aren't necessary. Bottom line....if you took every unused FP from 9:00am-4:00pm and redistributed them for use between 4:00pm and park closing, you might end up with huge FP lines in the final hours of operation. At present, we don't know how many unused FPs we are talking about, so we can't really draw any conclusions as to if, or how they should be re-used.

 

[IluvKingLouis]

We just got back from a 9 day trip this past Sunday. Although we went during the slowest time of the year, the lines were long, even on rides like IASW and Spaceship Earth.

I was not able to pre-book any FP+ rides as the Disney My Experience (or whatever it was called) wasn't working for me. I tried multiple phone calls but decided to just wing it once we arrived because of the anticipated low crowds.

I think we just used the FP+ for two days. On one day, we used it just once for Soarin', and blew off the two tiered two tickets we were required to schedule. The second day, they were out of Soarin' tickets, and we could only schedule late afternoon time slots. We were in the mood to switch parks, so those went unused.

I bought AP's with the anticipation of returning within 12 months. I think we will try to do that to get our moneys worth (I had also purchased a TIW card), but I think it will be quite sometime after that before we return. It was very frustrating, and we are not the type to plan rides so far ahead.

I hope they really try to fix this system. Right now, it's a mess, with long lines for rides that were once walk ons (there are still a few walk ons), and inability to go on more than just a few rides a day. We did take advantage of the single rider lines, and the late magic hours did help.

 

[mom2rtk]

But mathematically, are there any "leftovers"? Suppose that every person with a 4:00-5:00 return time fails to return for that ride. But every person with a 5:00-6:00 return time does return on schedule. If Disney concluded that the unused FPs were "leftovers, (and it could not reach that conclusion until 5:01), and it decided to redistribute those FPs for the 5:00-6:00 (or 6:00-7:00) time slots, it would bog down those times with extra people. I suppose if FPs are not distributed for the final hour of park operation, they could squeeze the extras in there. But many people won't stay that late, and crowd levels in the last hour of operation are usually such that FPs aren't necessary. Bottom line....if you took every unused FP from 9:00am-4:00pm and redistributed them for use between 4:00pm and park closing, you might end up with huge FP lines in the final hours of operation. At present, we don't know how many unused FPs we are talking about, so we can't really draw any conclusions as to if, or how they should be re-used.

I kind of see what you are saying. The mere fact that people are choosing times really complicates the process. Because with legacy FP they used up the 9 am times before moving on to 10 am etc. Now with people choosing times, if nobody ever chooses 9 AM that opportunity is lost once 10 AM gets here.

That really argues in favor of making ALL fastpasses available ahead of time to give as much opportunity as possible for someone to settle for those early times.

Even if they did have some left for "day of" they probably wouldn't allow anyone to book them until after they used their prebooked slots. So the only leftovers that would be used are the ones later in the day.

I just don't see any of that making sense.