So my professor started attacking Disney...

[PolynesianLily]

I don't want to get in trouble for starting this thread.
I do agree that these movies are not in the setting of today's society. They are movies from the mid to late 1900's. Obviously the Princess and the Frog has destroyed the "Disney has no multicultural characters as being the stars of movies" point that one clip on youtube made.

 

[wishspirit]

Jasmine was born at a time and place that it would have taken great courage and spirit to stand up to her father and tradition by refusing to marry the person her father wishes.
It's the live action movies and the media that I feel cause the problems with body image.

Ok I am going to tell you what my tutor said about these two points (not my opinion and I schooled him in a lot of Disney that seminar! He has never been, so I took on the side of Disney in our session of playing devils advocate). Anywho! With Jasmine, the main issue is that she is conforming to a westernised view of love and marriage, which could be seen a culturally imperialist. Jasmine battles against the traditions of her country and heritage to reach an 'Americanised' view of happiness. Arranged marriages were (and still are) common in the Middle East (noting that arranged marriages and forced marriages are very different!) Is this perpetuating a western model on the rest of the world? Especially since this film was produced during a war? (His words not mine)

I do think that Disney is a very small piece of something much larger, but their focus on very, very petite women and very large strapping men as the 'standard' can make people very concious about their bodies, even in a cartoon (Meg from Hercules being a ridiculous example). I think that's a key reason Lilo and Stitch did as well as it did (annoying alien aside), it showed real sized people even in a cartoon form!

This is a very interesting discussion with a lot of different points of view.
What I have found interesting is that most of us on these boards are adults. And as adults we see things in a different prespective than children.

I do agree, I know that my understanding of Disney has changed as I got older (and not just being able to understand the French jokes in Beauty and the Beast! ), and so I do think you have a point. However I do think that Disney's new approach to strong confident women, such as Mulan and Tiana (apparently, the film isn't out here yet) is much, much more positive! Kids can sense that and be empowered by it. I think kids do pick up more than we assume, but that doesn't mean Disney is the sole cause. I agree a situation in a supermarket is just as likely to effect them as a movie. It just takes parenting to help them understand what they are seeing.

 

[UrsulasShadow]

I do think that it is a mistake to think that children are unaffected by the things they see on TV...yes, even cartoons have their influence on our culture. They recognize them as cartoons (most of the time...remember, small children DO see the "face characters" at Disney as being the same as the animated character).

To those whose value systems are already locked in by our stage in development, we can view cartoons simply as entertainment. Children are still malleable, and can be influenced by EVERYTHING. If our media portrays finding "our prince" as the actual goal of all our struggles, and the entire point of the show is devoted to how we go about attaining this goal (being a victim in need of rescuing, becoming beautiful, dressing the part), yes, young girls do internalize this.

And yes, parents have a great influence on how their children turn out. This I do not deny. However, no child is raised in a vacuum (that would be considered child abuse!) and media has a very large influence as well, as rocio, wishspirit, and others have so eloquently stated. It does not have to be an overt influence in most cases (although that woman in the UK who has undergone multiple surgeries to look like Jessica Rabbit is an obvious exception, as well as those who have done the same to try to achieve Barbie-dom), but the subtle messages are most assuredly taken in by our children, and do become part of their world view.

I welcome the stronger, more balanced messages displayed in Mulan. I dig seeing women as action heroes rather than dress-up dollies.

 

[PeterPan09]

So critiquing a message is denying your parental responsibility? I don't see them as mutually exclusive. I think that's what many media scholars suggest as solution to negative media influences: media literacy. Being able to think critically about the portrayals and this analysis actually helps to buffer those potential negative influences. Yes, this means talking my children about what they're watching and in some cases not letting them watch certain things because I don't think they're ready for it. Doesn't mean we can't also simultaneously critique the messages. Also doesn't mean I'm in favor of censorship either. It's part of a dialogue between producers of media and consumers.

Responsible parents DO critique and analyze what their children see and hear. Irresponsible parents expect the entertainment industry to react to their every offense and remove any content deemed objectionable.

 

[UrsulasShadow]

Responsible parents DO critique and analyze what their children see and hear. Irresponsible parents expect the entertainment industry to react to their every offense and remove any content deemed objectionable.

And there are those responsible parents who would like better offerings out there for our children, for the largest companies like Disney not to remove the classics that so many people love and were raised on, but to submit more conscientious offerings.

Like so many parents who love Disney while objecting to many of the messages, I did teach my children to know the difference, and to listen to my scorn of the Cinderella mentality even while sitting with them and watching the videos. "Bah! You don't need magic! You don't need rescuing! Go out and get a job!" (yep, my children are irreparably damaged).

However, it would be nice if I wouldn't have had to do that quite so much, if there had been more programming with the Disney touch geared towards stronger, more self-reliant role models for girls.

 

[PolynesianLily]

It's all about the money.
Children see the characters in TV shows and movies, they want the toys, the clothes, the school supplies etc. They force parents to buy them these things. The companies are happy.

 

[saturday97]

Alice was just a girl, no tiara. And when things got ridiculous, she woke herself up and stopped all the nonsense.

 

[PeterPan09]

And there are those responsible parents who would like better offerings out there for our children, for the largest companies like Disney not to remove the classics that so many people love and were raised on, but to submit more conscientious offerings.

Like so many parents who love Disney while objecting to many of the messages, I did teach my children to know the difference, and to listen to my scorn of the Cinderella mentality even while sitting with them and watching the videos. "Bah! You don't need magic! You don't need rescuing! Go out and get a job!" (yep, my children are irreparably damaged).

However, it would be nice if I wouldn't have had to do that quite so much, if there had been more programming with the Disney touch geared towards stronger, more self-reliant role models for girls.

As a previous poster said-it's all about the money. Disney sells the Princess message because parents are continuing to part with their cash for the DVD's the toys and those pricey Princess outfits.

I'm dating myself, but back when I was growing up the Princess thing was not anywhere near what it is now. Those were the days of Billie Jean King beating Bobby Riggs and "I Am Woman". The Princess message just wasn't selling. My favorite Disney movie (as you can guess) was Peter Pan. Even when my niece was small 20 years ago, there wasn't this near obsession with the Princess culture that I see now. Sure, she watched Little Mermaid and Sleeping Beauty 1000 times, but I don't recall her fantasy playtimes involving BEING the Princesses. She was more likely to be playing vet with her stuffed animals or house with her baby dolls.

I don't know what it says about today's culture that the Princess thing is so powerful. Disney is spending a fortune creating an entire wing of the MK to highlight said Princesses and I have to wonder if they might be short sighted. The pendulum might swing back on them before they get the thing completed.

 

[gr8leg8]

So I got up and walked out of the classroom.


Kidding, I just sat there with a frustrated look on my face thinking how wrong he was when in reality he was correct.

Ok so I LOVE LOVE LOVE Disney and all, but the points that he was making did make some sense. See they were directed more at the movies, but in all seriousness, he started saying how Disney portrays the characters in the movies in stereotypical, unrealistic ways. Such as the princesses - they are portrayed as these beautiful, perfect women, and he feels that is sending the wrong message to children. In the sense that they are saying that in order for "princes" to like these girls, they need to be perfect.


Second point being from Beauty and the Beast were the Beast is screaming at Belle, and Belle excuses his behaviour. He said that this in a way is also sending wrong messages to young females in the sense that if they excuse men's behaviours (yelling etc to females) then no matter what a prince will still form. I'm not really sure if this makes sense?

I don't know if any of it makes sense. I just thought i'd bring this up as it made me think. Alot.

But in reality if my professor is going to stand there and tell me that the only purpose of humans on this planet is to be used by the government and society then I would rather tune him out

Opinions on the whole Disney issue and the messages they are portraying to young children? In regards to fantasies? Perfection?

I am going to use your signature as my reply

"The past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it, or learn from it."
-- Lion King

 

[alamode]

As a widowed single parent of three kids, including identical twin 6 year old girls, I can tell you first hand that yes, children are influenced by media, but they are also a lot smarter than most studies (probably done by childless people) give them credit for.

For example, we went on Christmas day to see Disney Princesses on Ice. WE were in the second row, and in the second act Prince Charming comes out and talks to my daughter Ciara (telling the whole crowd) that he has to visit evry single lady in his kingdom overnight. My daughter Ciara says to him "Why don't you just Facebook everyone?"

My girls are Disney and Princess crazy, but give them some credit.

 

[PeterPan09]

As a widowed single parent of three kids, including identical twin 6 year old girls, I can tell you first hand that yes, children are influenced by media, but they are also a lot smarter than most studies (probably done by childless people) give them credit for.

For example, we went on Christmas day to see Disney Princesses on Ice. WE were in the second row, and in the second act Prince Charming comes out and talks to my daughter Ciara (telling the whole crowd) that he has to visit evry single lady in his kingdom overnight. My daughter Ciara says to him "Why don't you just Facebook everyone?"

My girls are Disney and Princess crazy, but give them some credit.

That's classic!!

 

[wishspirit]

As a widowed single parent of three kids, including identical twin 6 year old girls, I can tell you first hand that yes, children are influenced by media, but they are also a lot smarter than most studies (probably done by childless people) give them credit for.

For example, we went on Christmas day to see Disney Princesses on Ice. WE were in the second row, and in the second act Prince Charming comes out and talks to my daughter Ciara (telling the whole crowd) that he has to visit evry single lady in his kingdom overnight. My daughter Ciara says to him "Why don't you just Facebook everyone?"

My girls are Disney and Princess crazy, but give them some credit.

Your daughter is one smart cookie!