So my professor started attacking Disney...

[PolynesianLily]

So I got up and walked out of the classroom.


Kidding, I just sat there with a frustrated look on my face thinking how wrong he was when in reality he was correct.

Ok so I LOVE LOVE LOVE Disney and all, but the points that he was making did make some sense. See they were directed more at the movies, but in all seriousness, he started saying how Disney portrays the characters in the movies in stereotypical, unrealistic ways. Such as the princesses - they are portrayed as these beautiful, perfect women, and he feels that is sending the wrong message to children. In the sense that they are saying that in order for "princes" to like these girls, they need to be perfect.


Second point being from Beauty and the Beast were the Beast is screaming at Belle, and Belle excuses his behaviour. He said that this in a way is also sending wrong messages to young females in the sense that if they excuse men's behaviours (yelling etc to females) then no matter what a prince will still form. I'm not really sure if this makes sense?

I don't know if any of it makes sense. I just thought i'd bring this up as it made me think. Alot.

But in reality if my professor is going to stand there and tell me that the only purpose of humans on this planet is to be used by the government and society then I would rather tune him out

Opinions on the whole Disney issue and the messages they are portraying to young children? In regards to fantasies? Perfection?

 

[UrsulasShadow]

Exactly why I hate princesses, love the villains, and insist that Mulan is NOT a princess...she's a HERO.

Most of the princesses (no, not all) were projections of their era, and embodied the ideals that their times held dear. There's no excuse for perpetuating that, though, into modern times. They need more strong women in Disney animation.

 

[mainegal]

Disney as a corporation is not always in any way perfect.

Their interpretations of classic fairy tales, stories and history are often "Disneyfied".

Still... you can like Disney!


Read the article below that asks "Princess Tiana - Real Girl or
Perfect Girl?" What you think about the newest Disney
princess?

http://www.girlsleadershipinstitute.org/blog/2010/01/18/princess-tiana—real-girl-or-perfect-girl

 

[hippiemama76]

Ahhhh. (sigh)

The feminist in me hates the princesses. I mean, Ariel has to give up her voice to be with 'her man' - don't even get me started on that one! They are getting better - Mulan and Tiana are a step in the right direction.

However . . . the mother in me just melts seeing them through HippieGirl's eyes. She's in love with them, and thinks seeing them at WDW is the most amazing thing in the world.

Because her exposure to media is pretty limited, I feel like the many positive feminist role models she has in her life more than outweigh her princess obsession. We try to frame the princess thing in terms of being representative of their eras. There was definitely a time when the most a young girl could aspire to was being well wed. There are still places in the world where that's a reality.

Everyone enjoys their bit of escapist fantasy, myself included.

I honestly think I would be more bothered by an obsession with Bratz dolls or that baby pageant foolishness. I mean, no matter how hard she tries, HippieGirl is not going to end up living in the woods with 7 tiny miners and an all animal cleaning service. However, with enough make-up and questionable clothing choices, the previous example is well within reach.

 

[alamode]

Add to this that most Disney stories are not originals, but are based on older books (I'm talking the classic stories, not Pixar etc.). It's not fair to put today's values on yesterday.

I don't think any harm can come from girls wanting to be princesses. If you're looking for reality from a cartoon, you're in trouble. Just stop reading so much into it and enjoy the actual story.

 

[PolynesianLily]

I love the Disney movies and I love the stories.
I was just saddened when he started mentioning all the negative things about Disney in the midst of telling us that there is no truth (Good grief this man is planting ideas in my head)
I guess when I was listening to what my professor was saying I started seeing almost what he was talking about.

 

[rocio]

I'm a professor who's "attacked" Disney in my classes. Yes, many of their portrayals have been stereotypical and their gender roles can be especially harmful to ideals of femininity. The passive female, the focus on appearance, the abusive relationship in Beauty and the Beast.

And yet....I can get lost in the magic. It's been my biggest challenge as a feminist to reconcile those two.

Like HippieMama says, it is in how you frame it. My children are probably tired of my voice intercepting in their viewing of many of these films as I finally started to let them watch them. I also try to make sure they watch strong feminine roles to counteract this. I have to admit, we did a better job of this with my oldest daughter than with my now 3yo.

 

[rocio]

I guess when I was listening to what my professor was saying I started seeing almost what he was talking about.

I think that's great. I think we should all be critical consumers of media. It's a way to counter-act potentially harmful messages. Doesn't mean you can't love other aspects of it. But yeah, it is kind of a bummer when you watch Beauty and the Beast again from the lens of an abusive relationship. It does take away a bit of the magic, doesn't it?

 

[hippiemama76]

I love the Disney movies and I love the stories.
I was just saddened when he started mentioning all the negative things about Disney in the midst of telling us that there is no truth (Good grief this man is planting ideas in my head)
I guess when I was listening to what my professor was saying I started seeing almost what he was talking about.

The very best professors are the ones who can totally blow your mind.

 

[sociologygirl]

I appreciate the thoughtful response to your professor's point rather than just a "defend Disney no matter what" mentality. I am a sociology professor myself, and a Disney addict. I can acknowledge the faults that Disney has and still love it - I think that thoughtful people can do that. And of course, Disney gets attacked because it is such a powerful cultural phenomenon - it does shape our sense of the world, but it also reflects it. These problems are larger than Disney and did not start with Disney, but I think we need to critique things in order to make things better. So I have been known to bring up some of those critiques of Disney myself in my class, usually followed by the statement that I've already made my reservations for my next trip

 

[ratherbeatdisney]

not EVERYTHING in the world has an Agenda. its a cartoon. quit reading so much into it people. just have some fun for an hour and a half, thats all they are meant for. Geez....

 

[rocio]

It doesn't have to have an agenda to send a message or influence people

 

[FireDancer]

They are fairy tales so who cares. Mice don't talk, carpets don't fly. Elephants don't either. If you carve a boy out of wood he will stay that way. People can argue all day as to whether any dogs or cats go to heaven let alone all of them.

Sometimes people read way too much into what is simply a nice story for little kids. Kids who don't care if there is a hidden message or agenda behind the scenes.

 

[DisneyKevin]

It doesn't have to have an agenda to send a message or influence people

I have no idea of your age bracket, but I'm going to assume that you have some awareness Wile E. Coyote, Bugs Bunny etc.

If you do have some memory of these things....I'm certain that you are aware that if you fall off a cliff....you will not float in mid-air long enough to look worried, flatten into a pancake upon impact, spring back into shape with little bluebirds fluttering around your head and walk away,

I'm also certain that when you are startled, you are aware that if you run into a solid wall, you will not break through it leaving a jagged silhouette of yourself with arms and legs akimbo.

These are all images that most children are (were?) exposed to at some point and I'm betting that if you asked a 5 or 6 year old child if they thought that would happen...they'd laugh and think you were weird.

 

[FireDancer]

I have no idea of your age bracket, but I'm going to assume that you have some awareness Wile E. Coyote, Bugs Bunny etc.

If you do have some memory of these things....I'm certain that you are aware that if you fall off a cliff....you will not float in mid-air long enough to look worried, flatten into a pancake upon impact, spring back into shape with little bluebirds fluttering around your head and walk away,

I'm also certain that when you are startled, you are aware that if you run into a solid wall, you will not break through it leaving a jagged silhouette of yourself with arms and legs akimbo.

These are all images that most children are (were?) exposed to at some point and I'm betting that if you asked a 5 or 6 year old child if they thought that would happen...they'd laugh and think you were weird.

Lets hope no one had to learn any of those the hard way, especially that first one. Also, if you ask anyone if they would like one lump or two and then hit them with a mallet assault charges are a coming.

 

[SamSam]

I have no idea of your age bracket, but I'm going to assume that you have some awareness Wile E. Coyote, Bugs Bunny etc.

If you do have some memory of these things....I'm certain that you are aware that if you fall off a cliff....you will not float in mid-air long enough to look worried, flatten into a pancake upon impact, spring back into shape with little bluebirds fluttering around your head and walk away,

I'm also certain that when you are startled, you are aware that if you run into a solid wall, you will not break through it leaving a jagged silhouette of yourself with arms and legs akimbo.

These are all images that most children are (were?) exposed to at some point and I'm betting that if you asked a 5 or 6 year old child if they thought that would happen...they'd laugh and think you were weird.

Exactly! Films are entertainment, people to realize that it's not real life.

 

[rocio]

You may not think it has impact yet a vast set of scientific studies including longitudinal and experimental studies have found that media influence people. It's not a simplistic influence. Of course it depends on a whole host of factors age, gender, identification, critical viewing, other life experiences, but the data is there. Media are powerful and influential. If they weren't would corporations be spending so much money on advertising? No we're not mindless drones in this, but they have their impact. To deny this is to refute decades of research or maybe just be unaware of its existence.

 

[WDWtraveler27]

They are fairy tales so who cares. Mice don't talk, carpets don't fly. Elephants don't either. If you carve a boy out of wood he will stay that way. People can argue all day as to whether any dogs or cats go to heaven let alone all of them.

Sometimes people read way too much into what is simply a nice story for little kids. Kids who don't care if there is a hidden message or agenda behind the scenes.

I totally agree with this.

 

[FireDancer]

You may not think it has impact yet a vast set of scientific studies including longitudinal and expreimental studies have found that media influence people. It's not a simplestic influence. Of course it depends on a whole host of factors age, gender, identification, critical viewing, other life experiences, but the data is there. Media are powerful and influential. If they weren't would corporations be spending so much money on advertising? No we're not mindless drones in this, but they have their impact. To deny this is to refute decades of research or maybe just be unaware of its existence.

I wouldn't go as far as saying the media has no influence but there is a grand canyon sized gap between political agenda disguised as unbiased news or the inherent conflict of interest that comes from multinational companies owning networks and the story line of children's movies that in some cases pre-date the discovery of electricity.

Children learn much more from their immediate sphere of influence then they do from cartoons, pop stars, or athletes. A loving home will trump any perceived message in a movie. I've yet to see a guy in a stained shirt on Cops getting put into the back of a police car for beating his wife while yelling "But Pocahontas made me do it". Of course to be fair I don't watch many episodes so I could have missed that one.

Of course I do think the teen pregnancy problem is the sole responsibility of the hidden message in the sky from The Lion King.

 

[rocio]

I wouldn't go as far as saying the media has no influence but there is a grand canyon sized gap between political agenda disguised as unbiased news or the inherent conflict of interest that comes from multinational companies owning networks and the story line of children's movies that in some cases pre-date the discovery of electricity.

Children learn much more from their immediate sphere of influence then they do from cartoons, pop stars, or athletes. A loving home will trump any perceived message in a movie. I've yet to see a guy in a stained shirt on Cops getting put into the back of a police car for beating his wife while yelling "But Pocahontas made me do it". Of course to be fair I don't watch many episodes so I could have missed that one.

Of course I do think the teen pregnancy problem is the sole responsibility of the hidden message in the sky from The Lion King.

Who said it was that simplistic?

I clearly stated in what you quoted that it was NOT a simple process. Actually it is a rather complex and nuanced process. Movies and TV shows are part of our environment and as such have an impact as we learn about new things, ways of being, make sense of the world. No where did I say it was the ONLY influence in a child's life. Of course it isn't. But it IS part of the world for many children and as such has an impact in their socialization. Again not the only influence, probably not the most important influence (you are correct, family plays a much larger role in the younger ages but that does start to diminish as children get older), but it IS an influence.

Just to give you a sample of what TV and movies have been found to influence: acceptability of violence, perception that the world is a more violent place than it actually is, aggression, gender role ideology, future expectations, acceptance of stereotypes, body image, self-esteem, and sexual attitudes. These are only a small sample of connections that have been studied and found to exist. Does it necessarily mean that watching one movie will make you think you can fly or make you even murder someone? Of course not. We're not that simplistic. But can watching similar portrayals over and over again color our perceptions of the world, especially things we perceive as possible? Yes it can and it does according to the evidence. No, it doesn't mean an older child (pre-schoolers might) believes in magic carpet rides, but it means they may be paying attention to the way Jasmine and Aladdin interact and relate to one another and file that away as part of other information they have about romantic relationships. Notice it's not the ONLY information. Just part of that information.

Of course it all depends on what they're watching and what the messages/portrayals are. The more consistent the message the more impact it has. Heck episodes of Sesame St. have been found to lower gendered stereotypes and increase acceptability of minorities. So these media portrayals can have positive influence. This is why it's useful to critically think through the portrayals in the media. Yes, those princesses can be passive, but then we have Mulan, a strong character who saves her country. What an awesome role model for little girls who are trying to make sense of what it means to be a girl in our society.

But again media are only one of many voices in a child's life. This is why I said, my children watch these movies, but we also talk about what happens in them, what's realistic and what isn't.