Slowly the truth comes out about the SBVT

[peachgirl]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html?pagewanted=1&th

Some highlights...

the accounts of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' prove to be riddled with inconsistencies. In many cases, material offered as proof by these veterans is undercut by official Navy records and the men's own statements.

1969.... Mr. Elliott, who was one of his commanders, ranked him as "not exceeded" in 11 categories, including moral courage, judgment and decisiveness, and "one of the top few" - the second-highest distinction - in the remaining five. In written comments, he called Mr. Kerry "unsurpassed," "beyond reproach" and "the acknowledged leader in his peer group."

1996...Elliott, one of the Vietnam veterans in the group flew from his home in Delaware to Boston in 1996 to stand up for Mr. Kerry during a tough re-election fight, declaring at a news conference that the action that won Mr. Kerry a Silver Star was "an act of courage."

March 2003.....Roy F. Hoffmann, a retired rear admiral and a leader of the group, allowed that he had disagreed with Mr. Kerry's antiwar positions but said, "I am not going to say anything negative about him." He added, "He's a good man."

June 2003, Mr. Hoffmann approvingly recalled the actions that led to Mr. Kerry's Silver Star: "It took guts, and I admire that."

1996....Adrian L. Lonsdale, another Vietnam veteran now speaking out against Mr. Kerry, supported him with a statement about the "bravado and courage of the young officers that ran the Swift boats.""Senator Kerry was no exception," Mr. Lonsdale told the reporters and cameras assembled at the Charlestown Navy Yard. "He was among the finest of those Swift boat drivers."

 

[DawnCt1]

Actually, the NY Times article has been refuted, point by point by several of the SwiftBoat Vets and the reporter was given the opportunity to meet with them and decided to write his own story instead. The "paper of wreckage"still isn't getting it right. For example, there was no fire fight. The three bullet holes in one of the boats was made the day before when the turrett gunner was wounded; not on the day that Kerry stated they were under fire and put in for one of his medals.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
Actually, the NY Times article has been refuted, point by point by several of the SwiftBoat Vets and the reporter was given the opportunity to meet with them and decided to write his own story instead. The "paper of wreckage"still isn't getting it right. For example, there was no fire fight. The three bullet holes in one of the boats was made the day before when the turrett gunner was wounded; not on the day that Kerry stated they were under fire and put in for one of his medals.

lol.....Boy, are the spinsters out today This article is backed by VERIFIABLE FACT, as opposed to the Swifties saying "nuh-uh" on every right wing talk show they can get on... Yeah...I can certainly see why you would believe them over the FACTS

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by wvrevy
lol.....Boy, are the spinsters out today This article is backed by VERIFIABLE FACT, as opposed to the Swifties saying "nuh-uh" on every right wing talk show they can get on... Yeah...I can certainly see why you would believe them over the FACTS

Verifiable fact? You mean what Kerry wrote at the time? I didn't think that there was video tape of the situation.

 

[peachgirl]

For example, there was no fire fight.

Got a link to prove that one???




I guess the Washington Post isn't good enough either?

"A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units in the flotilla also came under fire. "

Perhaps you can trust your favorite website...

http://drudgereport.com/dnc99.htm

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[peachgirl]

You mean what Kerry wrote at the time?

Got a link to prove that one?


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[disney4us2002]

This same subject is being discussed in at least three posts. Why another? I suppose you can cut and paste your thoughts to each and save yourself some typing.

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by wvrevy
lol.....Boy, are the spinsters out today This article is backed by VERIFIABLE FACT, as opposed to the Swifties saying "nuh-uh" on every right wing talk show they can get on... Yeah...I can certainly see why you would believe them over the FACTS

I'm curious, what is the VERIFIABLE FACT..

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by MICKEY88
I'm curious, what is the VERIFIABLE FACT..

Verfiable facts are those that are documented....such as the documentation that is given when the military issues medals.

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[poohkinandpiglet]

Party politics aside, I find it hard to give any credibility to ANYTHING the NY Times puts in print.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Got a link to prove that one???




I guess the Washington Post isn't good enough either?

"A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units in the flotilla also came under fire. "

Perhaps you can trust your favorite website...

http://drudgereport.com/dnc99.htm

Again, Thurlow has addressed that issue extensively. He said that he never filed a report and that his citation sounds curiously similar to Kerry'sHe is calling on Kerry to release the full record to determine who exactly wrote them both up for the citation because there was no enemy small arms fire. The boat was disabled by a land mine and the three bullet holes in one of the boats was due to action from the previous day.

 

[peachgirl]

Thurlow has addressed that issue extensively.

Thurlow's memory and personal account is not fact, Dawn.

The fact that he's denying that he lied doesn't prove he didn't. The documents are what they are. Medals aren't handed out like lollipops. The stories are verified before medals are issued.

Unless of course, you'd like to call into question every medal that every serviceman has ever received.

I, for one, trust that the military is honorable and doesn't give out medals that aren't earned.

Actually, Thurlow stated on Chris Matthews last night that he wasn't taking issue with Kerry's medals, at least not the bronze star....

Regarding the bronze star...

THURLOW: OK...MATTHEWS: Why doesn‘t he deserve the award?

THURLOW: Well, I—I don‘t—I‘m not quibbling about the award.

I guess it's just multiple choice on which Thurlow fairy tale you want to believe.

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[inaminute]

The whole thing could be easily settled if Kerry would release the records in question.

It shouldn't be a big deal since everyone but Kerry is lying.

 

[Paradise]

September 1, 2004

Last modified September 1, 2004 - 12:24 am

Columbus swift boat vet angry about letter
By LINDA HALSTEAD-ACHARYA
Of The Gazette Staff

COLUMBUS - Swift boat veteran Bob Anderson of Columbus is ticked.

It bothers him that Sen. John Kerry's swift boat history has become such a political hot potato. But he's even more irritated that his name was included - without his permission - on a letter used to discredit Kerry.

"I'm pretty nonpolitical," the 56-year-old Anderson said Tuesday. So, when he found out last week that his name was one of about 300 signed on a letter questioning Kerry's service, he was "flabbergasted."



"It's kind of like stealing my identity," said Anderson, who spent a year on a swift boat as an engine man and gunner.

The letter, which was posted on the Swift Boat Veter-ans for Truth Web site, claims the Demo-cratic presidential candidate has "grossly and knowingly distorted the conduct of the American soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen of that (Vietnam) war."

The letter also criticizes Kerry for trying to change his image from a critic of the war to a war hero.

"After reading the letter," Anderson said, "it kind of got under my skin. I had never come across a situation where someone used my name without my support or approval. It's not a very comforting feeling."

What's worse, he said, he disagrees with the letter.

"Had they asked me to use my name, I wouldn't have allowed them to," he said.

Anderson, a 1966 graduate of Chinook High School, describes himself as a naive Montana kid who was smacked by the reality of war soon after arriving in Vietnam in 1967.

"It's not a very pleasant way to grow up," he said.

He served on a swift boat about the same time Kerry did. However, the first time he met Kerry was during a reunion of swift boat vets in Norfolk, Va., in March 2003.

Anderson said he cannot dispute or verify Kerry's experience. In fact, he's forgotten much of his own.

"You remember the simple things," he said. "The rest is what you don't want to remember."

He does, however, support Kerry's right to state his opinion.

"We say we're protecting democracy. That's why we go to war. As Americans, we can have our opinions, right?"

Anderson can vividly recall the last day of 1969, when his boat was attacked.

"The thing I remember before we got hit was the grass dragging on the sides of the boat - the canals were so narrow," he said. "I can also remember the smell of napalm."

Anderson's boat was about the fourth boat back in a string of 10. He describes the scene as an Armageddon. Fellow swift boat sailor Bob Wedge was so badly wounded, Anderson doubted he would survive.

"That boat was like a slaughterhouse that day," he said. "He (Wedge) just about bled to death before we got a tourniquet on him and the chopper got him."

Wedge, who lost a leg, was flown home. Thirty-four years passed before the two met again. Now they find themselves on the same side of another conflict.

Wedge, 60, of Mesquite, Nev., said his name, too, was on the list - and he's mad.

"This is the fourth or fifth time someone has called me or e-mailed me in regard to signing this damn letter," he wrote in an e-mail to Anderson. "I don't agree with it and want no part of it and especially don't want my name on it."

Both men have tried to contact the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth to have their names removed from the list. Neither have had any success.

"I can't seem to get a response when I reply to their e-mail," Wedge said.

"They come back undeliverable."

Anderson said he first learned about the situation last week when he received an e-mail from a third party. The e-mail, from a Tom Pyle, said Pyle had contacted a dozen men whose names showed up on the list. Of the dozen, three said they had not given permission, Anderson said.

"That leads me to believe that as many as 25 percent of the names are fictitious supporters of that group," he said.

Anderson does not know how the Swift Boat Vets for Truth got his name, but it appears exactly as it has appeared on rosters at swift boat vet reunions. He suspects the list was pulled from the Swift Boat Sailors Association, a nonpolitical, not-for-profit organization linking swift boat veterans.

Wedge said he's known about the list for several months. Unlike Anderson, he remembers receiving an e-mail asking if he wanted to sign the letter in support.

He speculates that his name was automatically added to the list when he opened the e-mail.

Both men say they are angry that Kerry's swift boat service has dominated so much of the campaign. And they say both sides are at fault.

"You see it every campaign, there's dirty politics on every side," Anderson said. "If the politicians spent more time on issues than on this, we'd know more about them."

Anderson cites the economy as one of the issues most important to him - that and getting the nation out of Iraq. Wedge is more focused on Social Security, Medicare reform, prescription drugs and adequate funding for education.

Anderson describes himself as an independent, saying he has voted both sides of the ticket when it comes to presidential races. Neither he nor Wedge, a registered Democrat, say they know who they will vote for this election.

"I don't know enough about Kerry to say whether I will vote for him," Anderson said. "I know enough about Bush that I won't vote for him."

Regardless of political loyalty, Anderson said he has a message he'd like to pass along.

"Don't believe everything you read. All it tells me is there is some politics going on there."


http://www.billingsgazette.com/inde...news/2004/09/01/build/state/25-swift-boat.inc

 

[brittsmum1998]

WE all agree to disagree. Maybe we should debate something else...hmmmm oh how bout his record in the SENATE? Some of you say "What he was in the senate???!!!" "When?" For how long? Jeez Louis...he's NEVER mentioned it.