Slow POT

[TiggerTrigger]

I've seen the POT chart and cut offs. I know my fastest 10k race time is slower than the slowest cut off time for the half. Specifically...I guess I needed to be 1:15 or faster, and my best 10k time was 1:15:44. My question is if it's worth submitting this?

Over the years, I've followed trip reports on several Disney forums where people said any POT that showed a sub 16 min mile would help keep you out of the last corral. More recently, I've seen others saying anything slower than 1:15 gets thrown out and your placement is sort of luck of the draw. As we approach the Oct 8th deadline, I've seen everything from just put in the 2:45 or better option with no POT ... to submitting this 1:15:44 POT will guarantee me the last corral.

Don't get me wrong...I know I'm not fast. I just want to be with people of a similar pace and I was just hoping to avoid the last corral. That may not be possible considering my time, but just wondering which bits of advice are the best course of action? i.e. enter my best POT, just put in 2:45 or better with no POT, or submit nothing at all?

 

[DopeyBadger]

I've seen the POT chart and cut offs. I know my fastest 10k race time is slower than the slowest cut off time for the half. Specifically...I guess I needed to be 1:15 or faster, and my best 10k time was 1:15:44. My question is if it's worth submitting this?

Over the years, I've followed trip reports on several Disney forums where people said any POT that showed a sub 16 min mile would help keep you out of the last corral. More recently, I've seen others saying anything slower than 1:15 gets thrown out and your placement is sort of luck of the draw. As we approach the Oct 8th deadline, I've seen everything from just put in the 2:45 or better option with no POT ... to submitting this 1:15:44 POT will guarantee me the last corral.

Don't get me wrong...I know I'm not fast. I just want to be with people of a similar pace and I was just hoping to avoid the last corral. That may not be possible considering my time, but just wondering which bits of advice are the best course of action? i.e. enter my best POT, just put in 2:45 or better with no POT, or submit nothing at all?

With 99.9% certainty (as certain as I can be when it comes to runDisney), if you put "No POT" and choose "2:46-3:00" from the estimated finish times for no POT you will be placed in Corral F, or its equivalent if they change corraling procedures. You won't be placed in the last corral unless they change the system dramatically which I doubt they will do.

If you submitted a 1:15:44, then you could end up in Corral E (if they choose to put you there), Corral F (which is the most likely since 1:15:44 is so close to the cutoff it wouldn't be as if you were trying to pull something on them), and to a much less extent Corral H (because you submitted a POT when you shouldn't have). So there's maybe a 1-5% chance you could be in Corral E, a >90% chance of Corral F, and 1-5% chance of Corral H.

So if you want a virtual guarantee of not being placed in the last corral (and your recent POT shows that wouldn't be the appropriate placement for you anyways), then choose "No POT" and submit an estimate of "2:46-3:00". If you want to take a chance at being in Corral E, then submit the POT and see what happens while accepting the very small risk of being placed in the last corral.

Over the years they have changed their POT and corral procedures so some of the information you found online could be outdated.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

Over the years, I've followed trip reports on several Disney forums where people said any POT that showed a sub 16 min mile would help keep you out of the last corral.

You've already received excellent information from @DopeyBadger . In my experience, the corrals depend on how runDisney chooses to set them. I've only run a sub 3 hour half marathon once. I've ran quite a few between 3 and 3:15. I used one of those for the 2017 Dark Side Half, which should have been enough to keep me out of the last corral, but runDisney decided to place all runners with expected finish times of over 3 hours in the last corral. So nothing is guaranteed. That said, I started from the last corral, made quite a few photo stops and still finished never hearing a word of warning about where the balloon ladies were in relation to me.

If your best efforts still put you in the last corral, you may have to skip some photos depending on how fast you are, but it is still very doable to finish the race while starting from the last corral and still get some photos.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

With 99.9% certainty (as certain as I can be when it comes to runDisney), if you put "No POT" and choose "2:46-3:00" from the estimated finish times for no POT you will be placed in Corral F, or its equivalent if they change corraling procedures. You won't be placed in the last corral unless they change the system dramatically which I doubt they will do.

If you submitted a 1:15:44, then you could end up in Corral E (if they choose to put you there), Corral F (which is the most likely since 1:15:44 is so close to the cutoff it wouldn't be as if you were trying to pull something on them), and to a much less extent Corral H (because you submitted a POT when you shouldn't have). So there's maybe a 1-5% chance you could be in Corral E, a >90% chance of Corral F, and 1-5% chance of Corral H.

So if you want a virtual guarantee of not being placed in the last corral (and your recent POT shows that wouldn't be the appropriate placement for you anyways), then choose "No POT" and submit an estimate of "2:46-3:00". If you want to take a chance at being in Corral E, then submit the POT and see what happens while accepting the very small risk of being placed in the last corral.

Over the years they have changed their POT and corral procedures so some of the information you found online could be outdated.

View attachment 441211

Thanks for all of the insight! I guess I still have a few days to deliberate over this. Part of me wants to take the chance and enter the POT I've got, but I could easily change my mind 50x over the next few days. Not that I'll ever be crazy fast, but it's also incentive to get in another 10k once our temps finally cool off. It's tough when it's upper 70s to low 80s each morning with high humidity. It won't mean anything for POT for this Disney half, but it could help if I go for Princess in 2021.

Thanks again!

You've already received excellent information from @DopeyBadger . In my experience, the corrals depend on how runDisney chooses to set them. I've only run a sub 3 hour half marathon once. I've ran quite a few between 3 and 3:15. I used one of those for the 2017 Dark Side Half, which should have been enough to keep me out of the last corral, but runDisney decided to place all runners with expected finish times of over 3 hours in the last corral. So nothing is guaranteed. That said, I started from the last corral, made quite a few photo stops and still finished never hearing a word of warning about where the balloon ladies were in relation to me.

If your best efforts still put you in the last corral, you may have to skip some photos depending on how fast you are, but it is still very doable to finish the race while starting from the last corral and still get some photos.

I keep telling myself that I still get to run at Disney, no matter what corral I'm in, but there's that balloon lady fear (even though I've heard they are lovely people...very encouraging). There's also that part of me that's feeling like I should be farther up with everything I've done in training and racing. I'm also running the 5k and the 10k, so I guess those should also afford me additional photo ops if I do wind up in the last corral of the half and have to focus more on not being swept. I walked my last...and only...half (non-Disney), so aside from my walking pace for that (which was in 2015), I can't really use it as a gauge for how I might do when running.

Either way, it's good to know you were able to start from the last corral, still get in some pics, and be safe from the balloon ladies. It gives me a lot hope!

 

[Sleepless Knight]

I keep telling myself that I still get to run at Disney, no matter what corral I'm in, but there's that balloon lady fear (even though I've heard they are lovely people...very encouraging).

During the 2017 Dark Side 10K, I was in line for a photo when race officials came up to on bicycles and told us that the balloon ladies would be there in 5 minutes. When they arrived at the photo location, we would have the option to join the balloon ladies and stay in the race or stay in line for the photo and be swept. Since I was 3rd in line, I knew I was fine. I got my photo, resumed running, and a few minutes later I did see the buses pull up.

How did I know I was fine? Because in training, I had trained consistently faster than the balloon ladies pace so I knew that barring injury, I could stay with them if necessary and just skip the photo ops.

During the 2018 Dark Side Half they told me in line for a photo that I was 10 minutes ahead of the balloon ladies and that the line was roughly 5 minutes long. I stayed in line and monitored my watch. That was the last I heard of the balloon ladies that day and I still had quite a few miles remaining.

Race officials will tell you if you are at risk of being swept. They will even tell you where you need to be by a certain time to not get swept. If you're trained for it, you will be okay.

Honestly, that experience was actually liberating because it taught me how the sweep actually works. And the sweep does not involve a race official tapping you on the shoulder and saying "sorry, but you're behind the pace and we have to sweep you." You will know if that could happen.

There's also that part of me that's feeling like I should be farther up with everything I've done in training and racing.

I get it. I was in the last corral for my first half marathon. I finished in 3:05 with no photo stops because I was too afraid of being swept. I missed some tremendous once in a lifetime photo opportunities. The next year I was in the 2nd to last corral and finished in 3:07 with 2 photo stops.

What you have trained for will be sufficient to get you to the finish line even if the corral placement isn't ideal. Your pace might be slower than you want it to early on because of course congestion and since you're in a slower corral than your ability, but once the course opens up, you'll be able to run at your appropriate pace. I've had 20 minute miles at runDisney events with no photo stops because of course congestion at the back of the pack, but been just fine because I was fast enough to recover once the crowds thinned out. In case it matters, I did the marathon in 6:58 this past January with a lot of photo stops including at least one 10-15 minute wait for Mickey and Minnie. I spent a good few miles easily keeping up with the 6:30 pace group (more or less what I was trained for) before photo stops put me too far behind to catch up with them, but I was still just fine. Proper training will carry the day much better than corral placement especially when the goal is just to finish and maybe get some photos.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

During the 2017 Dark Side 10K, I was in line for a photo when race officials came up to on bicycles and told us that the balloon ladies would be there in 5 minutes. When they arrived at the photo location, we would have the option to join the balloon ladies and stay in the race or stay in line for the photo and be swept. Since I was 3rd in line, I knew I was fine. I got my photo, resumed running, and a few minutes later I did see the buses pull up.

How did I know I was fine? Because in training, I had trained consistently faster than the balloon ladies pace so I knew that barring injury, I could stay with them if necessary and just skip the photo ops.

During the 2018 Dark Side Half they told me in line for a photo that I was 10 minutes ahead of the balloon ladies and that the line was roughly 5 minutes long. I stayed in line and monitored my watch. That was the last I heard of the balloon ladies that day and I still had quite a few miles remaining.

Race officials will tell you if you are at risk of being swept. They will even tell you where you need to be by a certain time to not get swept. If you're trained for it, you will be okay.

Honestly, that experience was actually liberating because it taught me how the sweep actually works. And the sweep does not involve a race official tapping you on the shoulder and saying "sorry, but you're behind the pace and we have to sweep you." You will know if that could happen.
I get it. I was in the last corral for my first half marathon. I finished in 3:05 with no photo stops because I was too afraid of being swept. I missed some tremendous once in a lifetime photo opportunities. The next year I was in the 2nd to last corral and finished in 3:07 with 2 photo stops.

What you have trained for will be sufficient to get you to the finish line even if the corral placement isn't ideal. Your pace might be slower than you want it to early on because of course congestion and since you're in a slower corral than your ability, but once the course opens up, you'll be able to run at your appropriate pace. I've had 20 minute miles at runDisney events with no photo stops because of course congestion at the back of the pack, but been just fine because I was fast enough to recover once the crowds thinned out. In case it matters, I did the marathon in 6:58 this past January with a lot of photo stops including at least one 10-15 minute wait for Mickey and Minnie. I spent a good few miles easily keeping up with the 6:30 pace group (more or less what I was trained for) before photo stops put me too far behind to catch up with them, but I was still just fine. Proper training will carry the day much better than corral placement especially when the goal is just to finish and maybe get some photos.

It's good to hear how it all works and that there are the warnings. There are all kinds of great RunDisney race videos out there, but not much on being swept. And those that cover it usually cut out the actual warnings and sweeping, just to come back in after it's happened and they're on the bus. I get that it's emotional and most people probably don't want to share those moments.

That's what I keep telling myself...barring injury...my training should ensure that I stay ahead of the balloon ladies. I also do my longer runs with a 2L hydration pack which I'll have with me at WDW, so I don't have to slow for hydration. I have some dietary restrictions and will be carrying my nutrition in my pockets, so no slowing for that either. The photo ops are what could be my undoing. In regular Disney travel, I'm not huge on pics with characters (unless it involves the kids), but I do like the uncommon and details. BUT, I can't run with my big camera, so there shouldn't be as much temptation to stop and take a pic of every minute magical detail.

While not Disney crowded, I booked my last 10k partly because I thought it might be good race congestion training. The first mile was pretty crazy, but I figured it could come in handy for running at Disney. Either way, it sounds like I should be able to make some photo stops if I keep on top of things. I've even been trying to simulate some of this in my training. i.e. faster pace/longer run interval if I come to a complete stop for a photo. Either way, you're giving me a lot of hope that I'll be OK and be able to stop for some pics!

 

[Sleepless Knight]

And those that cover it usually cut out the actual warnings and sweeping, just to come back in after it's happened and they're on the bus. I get that it's emotional and most people probably don't want to share those moments.

I was scared beyond reason that I would be swept before my first half. As in I told only a handful of people that I was even running a half because I didn't want to say that I got swept when they asked me how the race went. I was convinced that people telling me I would be just fine were being polite because they didn't want to tell me the truth.

That fear led me to start out way too fast and nearly fulfilled that fear of being swept less than 1/2 a mile into the race. It felt like I had shin splints. I couldn't go another 10 yards in that kind of pain let alone 13.1 miles. So I slowed down to an acceptable pace and vowed that I would only leave the course if they removed me from it. Approximately 3 hours later I crossed the finish line.

I truly believe that barring illness or injury a properly trained runner will finish the race. Adrenaline can help carry the day, but it is unlikely to compensate for poor training.

One rule of thumb I've always followed in races is this. At each mile marker I look at the time. If I ran that mile within an acceptable range, that helps me know that I'm on pace. So if I stop for photos and that mile took 25 minutes, then I know I may have to cut some photos out later on depending on the line. I also see what the next mile comes in at to help know if I have resumed correct pacing. While I am not fast enough to recover that lost time, I can make sure I'm on pace to finish within the allotted time.

The photo ops are what could be my undoing. In regular Disney travel, I'm not huge on pics with characters (unless it involves the kids), but I do like the uncommon and details. BUT, I can't run with my big camera, so there shouldn't be as much temptation to stop and take a pic of every minute magical detail.

I've always used my cell phone for race pics. I don't want to lug the DSLR around during a race for obvious reasons. Some of the characters will have race photographers there and race photos are now included with Memory Maker if you purchased it.

And sometimes you can get some really fun photos along the course that don't have long lines.

 

[SarahDisney]

I actually emailed Track Shack today about a slower POT (1:18 10K). They said if you submit the POT, you'll be placed according to the corresponding half time. So depending on exactly what their calculation says ... you might just squeak in to the last POT corral, but if not, you should be placed in the first non-POT corral.

If you want to be sure, you can email them - disneysports@trackshack.com. They're pretty good about responding to emails and giving you the corresponding half marathon time.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

I actually emailed Track Shack today about a slower POT (1:18 10K). They said if you submit the POT, you'll be placed according to the corresponding half time. So depending on exactly what their calculation says ... you might just squeak in to the last POT corral, but if not, you should be placed in the first non-POT corral.

If you want to be sure, you can email them - disneysports@trackshack.com. They're pretty good about responding to emails and giving you the corresponding half marathon time.

That's great to hear...and it makes a lot of sense. Not that everyone is going to submit a POT, but to me, I would think any official time would just help them place people better to ensure greater efficiency. Thanks so much for the info!

 

[Karin1984]

I have done the DLP half marathon 4 times now and I am thinking about going to the US late 2020 or 2021. I have never done runs outside of Disney.
So my HM POT is based on a run with character stops. Do they keep this in mind?

 

[camaker]

I have done the DLP half marathon 4 times now and I am thinking about going to the US late 2020 or 2021. I have never done runs outside of Disney.
So my HM POT is based on a run with character stops. Do they keep this in mind?

Nope. Your time for the distance is all that counts.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

I have done the DLP half marathon 4 times now and I am thinking about going to the US late 2020 or 2021. I have never done runs outside of Disney.
So my HM POT is based on a run with character stops. Do they keep this in mind?

Absolutely. If between say miles 4 and 5, you spent 22 minutes in line for characters and 8 minutes running, then your total time for that mile was 30 minutes.

I know of people that were swept from a race because they did not understand that time in line for photos counts towards the required pace. So while their running pace was more than sufficient, the stopping for photos and not realizing that counted towards their time caused a problem.

 

[bumbershoot]

More recently, I've seen others saying anything slower than 1:15 gets thrown out and your placement is sort of luck of the draw.

It’s based on your estimate. But the corrals are gigantic

I'm also running the 5k and the 10k

Are you signed up for the challenge? I think that that changes things, doesn’t it? When I’ve done the challenges I’m in a slower corral than with the same estimate and a single race.

I know of people that were swept from a race because they did not understand that time in line for photos counts towards the required pace.

That imo comes from training with pausing your watch. I used to do that. Pause it at stoplights and bathroom breaks. And then I was in the event and paused it for the portapotty stops without thinking, and had a huge shock by my actual time. It was very sad.

OP, 1:12 is my fastest 10k ever, and I’ve never lived up to that promise lol. My first half I ended up sick as a dog (like some sort of influenza hybrid thing that went on for literally a month after), could barely eat the two days prior, was very much slower than I should have been, and still I never heard a word about the balloon ladies. (Though I also don’t do character stops, which saved me)

I wouldn't worry so much with your just over 1:15. Go to the corrals early. Starting at the start of your corral is so much better than any random entertainment before the corrals could ever be.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

It’s based on your estimate. But the corrals are gigantic

Are you signed up for the challenge? I think that that changes things, doesn’t it? When I’ve done the challenges I’m in a slower corral than with the same estimate and a single race.

OP, 1:12 is my fastest 10k ever, and I’ve never lived up to that promise lol. My first half I ended up sick as a dog (like some sort of influenza hybrid thing that went on for literally a month after), could barely eat the two days prior, was very much slower than I should have been, and still I never heard a word about the balloon ladies. (Though I also don’t do character stops, which saved me)

I wouldn't worry so much with your just over 1:15. Go to the corrals early. Starting at the start of your corral is so much better than any random entertainment before the corrals could ever be.

Thanks! No challenges for this as I'm not running the full marathon. I still think it's kind of funny that what I'm signed up to do would be a challenge on other RD race weekends, but with the full in the mix for this, it's "just" the 5k, 10k and half. That sounds horrible running when you feel like that. Then again, I tend to run/work out unless I'm full blown bedridden since it tends to make me feel better. I'm still wondering how I'm going to be about character stops. My only point of reference is how I am when we're touring the parks. I generally stop for neat looking stuff, but often save characters for character meals. I find myself asking myself... what characters are so good that I'd be willing to stop and wait in a line during the race. So far, it's a small list. So, stopping for random stuff that intrigues me vs. traditional character lines may help.

I've just tried to make peace with it. At this point, it is what it is and it's now out of my hands for this event. It's now time to work on costume construction, fine tuning dining plans, FP planning, thinking about fun resort stuff, and moving away from my POT training into my event training.

 

[Tall Todd]

A 1:15 will definitely get you out of the last corral. As for characters the lines generally move very fast. Much faster than any like you see in the parks. Have your camera ready and go.

 

[tigger536]

I would add that you really don't need to carry hydration. They water stops are huge and frequent. You'll be slowing to go through them anyway because everyone else is, so why carry a pack to weigh you down?

 

[Sleepless Knight]

I would add that you really don't need to carry hydration. They water stops are huge and frequent. You'll be slowing to go through them anyway because everyone else is, so why carry a pack to weigh you down?

At the first water stop of the 2017 Dark Side Half, they were completely out by the time the last corral made it to the stop. Fortunately, this did not repeat itself, but it also reminded me why I always carry my own hydration. I'd rather deal with it weighing me down so that I have it whenever I need it as opposed to needing it and not having it. Running in the early morning can give me a really dry mouth and lead to coughing issues that are quickly fixed with wetting my throat, so I always make sure I don't have to worry if trouble hits me nowhere near the water/powerade stop.

 

[ErinC]

I went ahead and submitted my 1:15 10K time last year for the princess half. I ended up in F. My daughter had a 1:14 10K time and she ended up in E. She fell back and started the race with me. I did not stop for any photos along the way because I was so afraid of the balloon ladies. In reality, I never saw them, but I'm still not sure I'll do much stopping this year. I'm running another 10K, November 2nd to see if I can squeeze it down 1 more minute so that I can get into E this year. If not, I'll just submit the 1:15 again. I'm doing the challenge this year, I don't know if it will make a difference in placement at all. Dh is running all of it with me, but he's much faster than I am, so we will really never even see each other, except for photos before and after.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I have a newbie question about POTs. Im running my first 10k in a couple of weeks to get my POT for Star Wars. I was looking over the 2018 results from this race Ill be doing and I noticed a clock time and a chip time. Im assuming the clock tim is the time from when the clock starts until you finish, and chip tim is the actual time you cross the start line until you cross the finish. Now this may be a dumb question but does RD use chip time or clock time for POT. My last training 10k cam in at 1:14 and a few seconds. Thats cutting it close for my goal of the 1:15 cut off. If RD uses clock time (or if my running app is inaccurate) then I may be in trouble.

 

[camaker]

I have a newbie question about POTs. Im running my first 10k in a couple of weeks to get my POT for Star Wars. I was looking over the 2018 results from this race Ill be doing and I noticed a clock time and a chip time. Im assuming the clock tim is the time from when the clock starts until you finish, and chip tim is the actual time you cross the start line until you cross the finish. Now this may be a dumb question but does RD use chip time or clock time for POT. My last training 10k cam in at 1:14 and a few seconds. Thats cutting it close for my goal of the 1:15 cut off. If RD uses clock time (or if my running app is inaccurate) then I may be in trouble.

Chip time