"Sleep-Around Points" (SAP) - The Thread

[zavandor]

That’s a different counterfactual than the one you pose in the last paragraph. If DVC was the same just without SSR all of the resorts would most certainly have more availability all the time, but especially OKW, AKV, and, once it’s sold out, Riviera, because they’re the next largest resorts (besides Aulani, but Aulani will have more declared rooms than owners for the rest of its existence, making booking patterns there advantageous overall).

But if they built 3 more smaller resorts, it’s impossible to predict what would have happened without knowing more about what those resorts would be like.

If SSR wasn't build, DVC would have certainly have built as many points somewhere else. Had they completely built VB as per the original project and added a couple of off-site resorts, impact on all WDW resorts would have been much worst. So on average, SSR it's not too bad.
But it matters only relatively. Because what remains at 7 months is limited by owners booking their resort, not which other resorts exist. The only way to make more availability is to make the resort more expensive
If they publish a different point chart for exchanges and make, let's say BCV cost 2x or 3x to exchange in, then the few rooms that arrive at 7 months would stay available for longer. But I don't think the non-BCV owners would like that.
And in 2024 if, like everyone say, they resell the resort greatly increasing the point charts, demand will decrease. Some owners will still always book there, others might be tempted by cheaper exchanges.
The real problem with 7 months availability is that with the point charts as they are, staying at BCV and BWV is an incredible deal. So people can pay higher resale per point because they have to pay fewer points to stay there. But in turn, this means that if you have paid $200+ for the contract, you're doing so only to stay there. You're not tempted to try another resort that might be had paying half resale and costs more points per night. Hence, reducing availability at 7 months. Which causes resale prices to increase because to stay there becomes more difficult and so on. SSR, VB, HHI or AUL have nothing to do with what's left at 7 months.

 

[zavandor]

On second thoughts, I'm not sure increasing the exchange rate for certain resorts would increase availability, it might be the opposite. Let's say they double the points needed to exchange into BCV, this might just push someone who is on the fence to buy there to stay for fewer points. Which means increased resale prices and even fewer rooms remaining at 7 months.

Or another way to increase availability could be to open home resort reservations 36 months in advance and to others at 35 months. This would be legal (the only guarantee is one month home priority window over exchanges) and would certainly increase availability for longer
Rule number one of DVC: beware of what you wish for.

 

[crisi]

On second thoughts, I'm not sure increasing the exchange rate for certain resorts would increase availability, it might be the opposite. Let's say they double the points needed to exchange into BCV, this might just push someone who is on the fence to buy there to stay for fewer points. Which means increased resale prices and even fewer rooms remaining at 7 months.

Or another way to increase availability could be to open home resort reservations 36 months in advance and to others at 35 months. This would be legal (the only guarantee is one month home priority window over exchanges) and would certainly increase availability for longer
Rule number one of DVC: beware of what you wish for.

To a lesser extent, the higher buy in cost for BCV over other resorts since pretty much the moment it opened has already done the first - availability at BCV (and BWV) at seven months has always been tighter than just the supply would indicate - and part of that is who would pay an extra $$$ per point to buy BCV (or less for BWV) and then choose to book regularly at a different resort. People have ALREADY spent more money to buy those resorts to stay there, which has reduced seven month availability.

 

[Cybertruck]

All of our points are at Saratoga (Blue card resale). When our family was younger it was 2 weeks in May before the holiday. Week one at our home resort and week 2 at different resort. With our family grown it’s a single week (not Saratoga) and a couple weekends during the year. We are locals now and find our 550 points is not enough and looking to add on. Family surprise visits home becoming more frequent (Orlando cheap flights ) has made some last minute stays a challenge.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Family surprise visits home becoming more frequent (Orlando cheap flights ) has made some last minute stays a challenge.

Even at SSR or OKW?

 

[crisi]

There was speculation here when SSR was being built that they would do something over there to increase demand and push people to choose it at seven months over the near park resorts - build a waterpark like pool like (but better than) SAB. Push points to book lower than OKW. Much nicer rooms. They had built it with access to what was then Pleasure Island and views of PI's nightly fireworks - and if PI/DTD was more of a draw and they had kept the PI nightly fireworks....maybe? But the Adventurers Club was closed before SSR even sold out, nightly fireworks ended, Pleasure Island got rebranded. Although I doubt even if PI had stayed the fireworks/Adventurer's Club draw it had been it would have balanced, because VAKL has giraffes outside your room and has pretty easy seven month availability.

 

[Cybertruck]

Even at SSR or OKW?

Yes it has been at challenge at both. Not uncommon to get just a few days notice (None summer months, Oct-Apr). OKW is a challenge need an elevator or first floor room. Tuesday/Wednesday flight sales.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

There was speculation here when SSR was being built that they would do something over there to increase demand and push people to choose it at seven months over the near park resorts - build a waterpark like pool like (but better than) SAB. Push points to book lower than OKW. Much nicer rooms. They had built it with access to what was then Pleasure Island and views of PI's nightly fireworks - and if PI/DTD was more of a draw and they had kept the PI nightly fireworks....maybe? But the Adventurers Club was closed before SSR even sold out, nightly fireworks ended, Pleasure Island got rebranded. Although I doubt even if PI had stayed the fireworks/Adventurer's Club draw it had been it would have balanced, because VAKL has giraffes outside your room and has pretty easy seven month availability.

I would argue they’ve done a good bit. They added treehouses, a second feature pool, three splash pads, and gave the rooms a MUCH more premium look. I’m not sure they solved everything but it’s definitely a better resort than it was when the carousel was first completed.

SAB 2.0 would certainly go a long way to fixing it, too bad that will never happen.

 

[intamin]

I would argue they’ve done a good bit. They added treehouses, a second feature pool, three splash pads, and gave the rooms a MUCH more premium look. I’m not sure they solved everything but it’s definitely a better resort than it was when the carousel was first completed.

SAB 2.0 would certainly go a long way to fixing it, too bad that will never happen.

If they added a SAB 2.0 and added that to the Congress Park area I would stay at SSR all the time. I already like that area because of walking to DS and the rooms. SAB 2.0 would be a game changer. You would hope with all of the space they had at the resort they would've put something in like that.

 

[Cybertruck]

We love SSR no regrets on our resale purchase. Like a fine wine it’s only improved over time. That said I still had a bunch of spreadsheet tabs when we decided and reading hundreds of posts on the Disboards for weeks. The Disney Springs improvements only increased the value of this resort in our minds. Treehouses and Animal Kingdom Villas stays only when we became locals. These resorts require a car in our minds. We never had a problem with transportation at Saratoga (Experience all pre-pandemic). Magical Express and Resort transportation those days.

 

[emchen]

SAB 2.0 would certainly go a long way to fixing it, too bad that will never happen.

…because it wouldn’t fit the equestrian theming? What a dream-killer

BTW I experienced Storm-a-long Bay for the first time last week during a 3-night stay in a 1-BR villa using my SSR SAPs. The wife loved the property and SAB was indeed impressive, but once was enough for me and even my 3 DDs.

To counter SAB, SSR could just build a true lazy river spanning the periphery of the Carriage house and somehow link it to the main pool there.

 

[Sandisw]

…because it wouldn’t fit the equestrian theming? What a dream-killer

BTW I experienced Storm-a-long Bay for the first time last week during a 3-night stay in a 1-BR villa using my SSR SAPs. The wife loved the property and SAB was indeed impressive, but once was enough for me and even my 3 DDs.

To counter SAB, SSR could just build a true lazy river spanning the periphery of the Carriage house and somehow link it to the main pool there.

We did SAB in March and the second day we did the villas pool instead. Way to busy and crazy for me. I know many love it, but I realize it’s just not our style.

 

[intamin]

…because it wouldn’t fit the equestrian theming? What a dream-killer

BTW I experienced Storm-a-long Bay for the first time last week during a 3-night stay in a 1-BR villa using my SSR SAPs. The wife loved the property and SAB was indeed impressive, but once was enough for me and even my 3 DDs.

To counter SAB, SSR could just build a true lazy river spanning the periphery of the Carriage house and somehow link it to the main pool there.

Basically my plan instead of getting BCV points is just to book 1BRs at BWV/BCV during the summer. I'm okay with paying a premium for the 1BR there with my SAP. With how good the point charts are at those resorts it's not even that bad. I love both the resorts and actually got engaged at BWV but that 2042 expiration date is a no go for me.

 

[crisi]

If they added a SAB 2.0 and added that to the Congress Park area I would stay at SSR all the time. I already like that area because of walking to DS and the rooms. SAB 2.0 would be a game changer. You would hope with all of the space they had at the resort they would've put something in like that.

I think that's a dream - it was a dream at the time - and SSR pools are really quite good (disclosure - I'm not an SSR fan, but their feature pool is good - I'm also not a BCV fan - in part because I really do not like SAB). There isn't really any reason for them to, since DVC really doesn't care about seven month availability and making sure people who bought at SSR have good chances to book other places.

I suspect that SAB is justified through the exorbitant cash rates the the Y&BC can charge - but for a DVC resort, the increased cost of maintenance, lifeguards, insurance, etc is a lot - and that would get passed along to SSR owners. I'm also sure that every year DVC gets more complaints about the cost of dues than any other single topic. SSR owners who bought a low cost/low dues resort wouldn't like to see their dues jacked up - and Disney doesn't want the complaints.

It would be nice if they did care - we own BWV and like staying at home (although we've been using points to snowbird at HHI or Aulani since my kids got out of high school six years ago) - but the lack of balance is a problem for anyone who would like to switch it up once in a while - including BCV owners who want to book at say Grand Floridian.

 

[WxKristin]

I'm using my CCV points to stay at club & 1 bd value at AKL in Oct and then my VGF points (lower dues!) to stay at a 2bd BCV in January. BCV because of location to Epcot and lower points per night than VGF or RIV (not expecting to use SAB in Jan). Honestly though, I just enjoy trying out all the different resorts right now. And SSR works really well for RunDisney trips when we don't have park tickets due to proximity to the Springs.

 

[crisi]

…because it wouldn’t fit the equestrian theming? What a dream-killer

BTW I experienced Storm-a-long Bay for the first time last week during a 3-night stay in a 1-BR villa using my SSR SAPs. The wife loved the property and SAB was indeed impressive, but once was enough for me and even my 3 DDs.

To counter SAB, SSR could just build a true lazy river spanning the periphery of the Carriage house and somehow link it to the main pool there.

I didn't like SAB - and my kids made me pool hop back to the BW when we did our BCV stay I understand the draw, but I don't understand why its SO popular.

One of the Disboard dreams back when SSR was being built was that they would put in horses like Ft. Wilderness - theming! In theory they could close the LBV golf course and put in stables and trail rides - but I don't think the Ft. Wilderness trail rides have ever been as popular (or as profitable) as golf.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I understand the draw, but I don't understand why its SO popular.

I think the biggest draw is it's proximity to Epcot. There's no other explanation. SAB is nice, but it's not the primary reason IMO. At least it's not for me. I also think BCV has a slightly more "deluxe" feel than BWV. Perhaps it's the decor or theming. Or maybe the scarcity. I don't know. BCV just feels a bit nicer.

 

[Cybertruck]

We prefer BCV over BWV as well. BCV was a serious contender for us but the 42 end date ruled it out. Now if CCV was a thing when we purchased that would have been our home resort. EPCOT was a Must Do even with our young family. Magic Kingdom in the morning and EPCOT at night. We spent hours at Inoventions and wondering around the world having our EPCOT center passports stamped. The little one would ask the always kind caste members about their home country. We can see the the little one (now 31) buying there in 2043 . He is a big fan of the Yacht Club.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

We prefer BCV over BWV as well. BCV was a serious contender for us but the 42 end date ruled it out. Now if CCV was a thing when we purchased that would have been our home resort. EPCOT was a Must Do even with our young family. Magic Kingdom in the morning and EPCOT at night. We spent hours at Inoventions and wondering around the world having our EPCOT center passports stamped. The little one would ask the always kind caste members about their home country. We can see the the little one (now 31) buying there in 2043 . He is a big fan of the Yacht Club.

I agree about the 2042. I just can't justify the current prices. But I'm seeing some really nice prices for CCV right now. Just today on the ROFR thread, I saw a 160 point CCV go for $125pp! That's cheaper than most BCV contracts I've seen.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

BCV prices are fine for studios in DVC low seasons but are not a great savings for 1BRs or for studios in the high DVC seasons.

Say you use a 3.5% cost of capital, at $150 per point that works out to $19.28/point cost basis for 18 years of points, so $289 for a room in January low season, for example, about half of the cash rate of $543.

But in early November it’s $994 for a 1BR and 36 points, so $693. If Disney runs the room 30% off (like they’re doing this fall for Disney+ subscribers) you’ve saved…$2.

Don’t even get me started on the direct pricing.

(Cash prices include tax)