Skiplagging

[starry_solo]

Knew about it (there's been articles about travel "hacks" like these for years).
Don't care for it but whatever floats their boat...

 

[tvguy]

A) That sentence shows up nowhere in the article.
B) Assuming you found that quote in another article, it's not about skiplagging (AND a resulting court case).
C) That quote refers to a company (kiwi.com) losing to Southwest, not passengers, which is what you said.

Now, before you go find a different case where the airline won some discrimination case or something against a passenger, see A & B above.

Now, care to try again?

ETA: Regarding B above, the case just says kiwi.com can't scrape SW's site for it's data, so skiplagged.com can't offer SW tickets. So marginally about skiplagging, but still not what @tvguy claimed.

23rd paragraph on the article linked in Post #1
Do YOU care to try again? LOL. It's there

 

[sam_gordon]

23rd paragraph on the article linked in Post #1
Do YOU care to try again? LOL. It's there

Ah, there's the confusion. You quoted me where I linked an article then said "If you read the article... " I assumed you were referring to the article *I* linked, not the original article. For that, I apologize.

Now, to the section you're referring to...

And in 2021, Southwest sued Skiplagged in Texas for displaying the airline's cheap fares and selling the tickets on its flights without permission - after it had already sued similar site Kiwi.com for the same reasons.

It's still not a case of an airline suing a PASSENGER for skiplagging. They sued two websites for displaying the airlines fares.

 

[GAN]

They could theoretically attempt to collect monetary damages for breach of contract. And even large companies can use small claims court, and quite a few have mandatory arbitration terms in their terms of use.

What amount are the damages? You can’t just sue for “damages” with some random amount like in a punitive sense …you have to show exactly what you lost. The passenger paid in full for a ticket and the airline accepted the full amount. They’ve lost nothing.

 

[bcla]

They'd have to prove damages wouldn't they? And at most the damages would probably be a couple hundred (let's even say a thousand) dollars. What company in their right mind would go after someone, where even if they win, they're probably out tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees?

Damages are easy. The terms clearly say that it can't be done and the amount could be fairly easily documented. I could see an airline doing it to set an example. I remember a few file sharing lawsuits by a record label association about 15 years ago where there were pretty big awards, although I don't think they really collected.

Granted, I've done a few things to save money while traveling and I know the risks.

 

[bcla]

What amount are the damages? You can’t just sue for “damages” with some random amount like in a punitive sense …you have to show exactly what you lost. The passenger paid in full for a ticket and the airline accepted the full amount. They’ve lost nothing.

An airline could easily document what the fare difference is.

Besides that - for airline travel it's a jerk move. With same-plane connections I've heard of headcounts being off with delays trying to figure out who got off and whether or not the missing passenger might have left behind an explosive device. Less of an issue if there has to be a transfer to a connecting flight.

 

[sam_gordon]

Damages are easy. The terms clearly say that it can't be done and the amount could be fairly easily documented. I could see an airline doing it to set an example.

I can't. The "damages", while fairly easy to determine, are more than likely <$1000. That will cover what, MAYBE four hours of a lawyer's time (probably MUCH less, I'm being generous). While airlines "lose" money on skiplagging, I doubt it's enough to make suing in court "worth it", even as an example.

 

[sam_gordon]

What amount are the damages? You can’t just sue for “damages” with some random amount like in a punitive sense …you have to show exactly what you lost. The passenger paid in full for a ticket and the airline accepted the full amount. They’ve lost nothing.

Just for example, tickets from Gainesville to JFK start at around $100 (I picked a random Saturday in November). Tickets from Gainesville to Charlotte start at around $200.

So, the airline would be "out" $100 plus the ticket they could have sold from CLT to JFK.

 

[bcla]

I can't. The "damages", while fairly easy to determine, are more than likely <$1000. That will cover what, MAYBE four hours of a lawyer's time (probably MUCH less, I'm being generous). While airlines "lose" money on skiplagging, I doubt it's enough to make suing in court "worth it", even as an example.

I would think that if they made a claim, they might do it in binding arbitration where they select the arbitrators, and find a good case to use as an example and get tons of publicity like the Recording Industry Association of America did when they went after files sharers.

It obviously wouldn't make sense to go after anyone for the money or after more than just a few people. But I could see it being done just to put it in people's minds that it could be a hassle not worth the risk.

 

[GAN]

Just for example, tickets from Gainesville to JFK start at around $100 (I picked a random Saturday in November). Tickets from Gainesville to Charlotte start at around $200.

So, the airline would be "out" $100 plus the ticket they could have sold from CLT to JFK.

I do get that …but they aren’t out anything. They sold a ticket to JFK and got paid for it -in their mind they’re out $100 because a bean counter told them so, but the fact remains that someone paid them what they asked. What the passenger does with the ticket is the passenger’s business …they don’t have to fly at all if they choose. I’m just saying there is no chance an airline wins a case like this -ever. They can write all the mumbo jumbo they want into their rules …it’s all meant to discourage, not protect them in a court of law.

 

[sam_gordon]

I do get that …but they aren’t out anything. They sold a ticket to JFK and got paid for it -in their mind they’re out $100 because a bean counter told them so, but the fact remains that someone paid them what they asked. What the passenger does with the ticket is the passenger’s business …they don’t have to fly at all if they choose. I’m just saying there is no chance an airline wins a case like this -ever. They can write all the mumbo jumbo they want into their rules …it’s all meant to discourage, not protect them in a court of law.

TOTALLY agree, ESPECIALLY with the bolded, regardless of what others may claim.

 

[Babs Johnson]

ETA: This article (don't know if it's the same one I read before) said the gate agent became suspicious because of the teen's NC DL. Why is the gate agent asking to see ID? It shouldn't have been at the counter to check in luggage, because skiplagging doesn't work with checked luggage.

Maybe the kid checked in online or at an airport kiosk to get a boarding pass. The first meeting with airline employees may have been at the gate. TSA wouldn’t care where his ID was from as long as it was valid.

 

[luvsvacation]

What @luvsvacation is talking about is something slightly but completely different, throwaway ticketing. Historically it has always been cheaper to book roundtrip than two separate one way flights. Usually the price difference aren't as drastic as what was posted but does happen. What I suspect happened with those specific flights is they were looked at very close to when they were made available for sale. And no discounted one way fares were loaded into the system yet. If you look again in a few months I would bet that the difference will not be nearly as much as what was seen. I highly doubt anyone on this board would pay full fare transatlantic Y unless they really had to get there right now.
An airline isn't going to sue anyone for skiplagging, the reason it's in the CoC is so that you can't sue the airline if they refuse to board you, refuse to let you book again or take away your FF points.

UPDATE!! I continued checking into prices and I’m thrilled to say that Iceland air had one way tickets for 535!! They don’t fly to my city so I have to fly to NYC and then get a cheap flight home but that’s no big deal. I even ended up splurging and paying 750 for their fully refundable ticket. Added bonus with the money I’m saving on flights we’re doing a 2 night layover in Iceland!! I’m assuming this is why they offer their flights cheaper (to get people to come to Iceland) I’m so excited!! When I was seeing all the major airlines with one way prices of 2500 per person I was freaking out!!

 

[bcla]

Maybe the kid checked in online or at an airport kiosk to get a boarding pass. The first meeting with airline employees may have been at the gate. TSA wouldn’t care where his ID was from as long as it was valid.

My reading is that he actually checked in at the counter (traditionally called the "ticket counter") where he provided his reservation and North Carolina driver license.

 

[Babs Johnson]

A big part of your problem is flying into London, or anywhere in the UK, actually. The UK has insanely high arrival/departure taxes for international flights, in fact, there are situations where the taxes are higher than the fare itself. Price out flying your international leg out of another country and you may end up saving a LOT of money.

OT but your post reminded me of a trip we planned to London back in 2007.

Non stop fares via British Airways or United were about $1200 Round trip. Connections with various other airlines were somewhat cheaper.

But Air Canada via Toronto was advertised for something like $599*. When I investigated that asterisk indicated that the “fare” was indeed $599. But there was a whole laundry list of extra taxes and charges, including something called a “Fuel Surcharge“ for about $300. Overall all those charges brought the price to about the same as other airlines with connections.

I think this was before regulations that required airlines to advertise their “in all” prices. We were tempted to fly Air Canada just for their advertising audacity, but in the end took British Airways.

 

[Babs Johnson]

My reading is that he actually checked in at the counter (traditionally called the "ticket counter") where he provided his reservation and North Carolina driver license.

Maybe the ticket counter agent grew suspicious and called the gate agent to investigate further. Or software flagged it for “skipping” Charlotte with a NC driver’s license.

In any event, I doubt the kid was “detained” in the sense that the father claimed.

 

[bcla]

Maybe the ticket counter agent grew suspicious and called the gate agent to investigate further. Or software flagged it for “skipping” Charlotte with a NC driver’s license.

In any event, I doubt the kid was “detained” in the sense that the father claimed.

Sure. They have no authority to "detain" anyone like someone accidentally bringing a weapon in luggage. It sounds to me like he was told his ticket was being cancelled and they went somewhere to discuss why.

The conditions of carriage typically include that they can always issue a full refund at the airline's discretion and cancel the ticket.

 

[BayouQueen]

So if someone feels ill and doesn't want to continue on with the journey, they have to anyhow? Or gets an emergency call to turn around and fly home immediately, they can't? Or the plane seats are so narrow and close together that the passenger gets claustrophobia and just needs to bolt and take a train instead? They have to continue their itinerary?
H'mmm...

 

[bcla]

So if someone feels ill and doesn't want to continue on with the journey, they have to anyhow? Or gets an emergency call to turn around and fly home immediately, they can't? Or the plane seats are so narrow and close together that the passenger gets claustrophobia and just needs to bolt and take a train instead? They have to continue their itinerary?
H'mmm...

Depends on what it is, but this is really just a matter of paying for the ticket. They don't want passengers to deliberately book this way with the intention of throwing out travel segment and getting around their fare structure.

If you're sick or you complain, I guess it's possible to tell someone and they'll make note of it. Obviously a passenger who repeatedly does this could be blacklisted by the airline, although in this case he was blacklisted before he had a chance to do it.

In this case they suspected that this passenger was going to do it and then cancelled the ticket (I believe with a refund) before he boarded. That's generally within the conditions of carriage.

 

[Babs Johnson]

So if someone feels ill and doesn't want to continue on with the journey, they have to anyhow? Or gets an emergency call to turn around and fly home immediately, they can't? Or the plane seats are so narrow and close together that the passenger gets claustrophobia and just needs to bolt and take a train instead? They have to continue their itinerary?
H'mmm...

If you notify the airline in such situations it’s almost always OK. As long as you don’t make a habit of getting sick or having emergencies before the second legs of connecting itineraries.

Once I checked in and was at the gate when I received a call about a minor emergency and had to return home. I explained to the gate agent and she made a note and didn’t cancel my return flight despite me skipping the initial leg. I did have to buy an expensive walk up fare the next day to start my journey. But with that full price fare they upgraded me to First Class because space was available. BWI to MSP on Northwest about 2005.