Skiplagging

[kymom99]

I think it depends on the airline. United requires the child to be 15 or over. We know this, as we were stuck having to pay the unaccompanied minor fee for our younger son who was a month from turning 15. For our extra $150, he got stuck in a middle seat and was given a "free" snack.

Yes I don’t have experience with AA. My son flew delta and their rule was that a minor could not take the last flight of the night. So coming home from his conservation crew experience I booked him on a flight with a stopover that was not the last flight. Then the airline cancelled the connecting flight and changed him to the last flight of the night. I guess I could have said something but I didn’t. Who would have been in the wrong? They broke their own rule. I’m not sure of the reason for the rule, I can only assume it’s so he wouldn’t be stuck overnight if the last flight was cancelled.

 

[AppleDumpling]

If skiplagging is not illegal, how does the airline have the authority to detain and question a passenger? Apparently this young man wasn’t stopped by TSA, but at the boarding gate. His age should be irrelevant, other than the fact that he was an inexperienced solo traveller and likely intimidated into “confessing” his plans.

I’m guessing he missed the original flight and was rebooked on a later flight at the higher cost. So AA potentially could have filled his seat for both legs of the original flight to someone on standby and made even more money. But even if they didn’t, they aren’t losing money if the seat was left empty, because it was already paid for. As others have said, airlines routinely overbook and bump passengers from flights. Doesn’t seem fair that airlines get to have it both ways, and it’s the passengers who get fleeced.

Current legislation pending in Congress, called the Airline Passengers’ Bill Of Rights is intended to address some of these issues.

 

[HopperFan]

If skiplagging is not illegal, how does the airline have the authority to detain and question a passenger? Apparently this young man wasn’t stopped by TSA, but at the boarding gate. His age should be irrelevant, other than the fact that he was an inexperienced solo traveller and likely intimidated into “confessing” his plans.

I’m guessing he missed the original flight and was rebooked on a later flight at the higher cost. So AA potentially could have filled his seat for both legs of the original flight to someone on standby and made even more money. But even if they didn’t, they aren’t losing money if the seat was left empty, because it was already paid for. As others have said, airlines routinely overbook and bump passengers from flights. Doesn’t seem fair that airlines get to have it both ways, and it’s the passengers who get fleeced.

Current legislation pending in Congress, called the Airline Passengers’ Bill Of Rights is intended to address some of these issues.

Something can be legal but still against a companies' policy. Now should they have "detained" him? Probably not, that could be a legal issue BUT they could have just refused to let him get on the plane. It sounds like he was old enough to just walk away.

 

[fly girl]

Detainment, geez that is harsh. Especially for a minor. I do not agree with going that far. If anything, make him pay the difference in fare for not going that extra leg and be done with it. Feels so low for the airline to chose to prove a point with a minor in this situation.

A few answers to questions:
15 is the youngest you can fly unaccompanied without needing to pay the Unaccompanied Minor fee. You can chose to use the service from 15-17 year of age, but is is not required.

You can feel the airlines are the bad guy. And yes, no doubt, they are at times. But all the delays this summer you cannot put solely on the airlines. It is ATC. Why is this happening more than years before? I will tell you exactly why. They did a massive hire and these new employees are trained to do the job when everything is smooth. They do NOT have the experience on how to route differently with weather. That is why you are seeing ground stops at an all time high. They see the cell of storms, get nervous, and close it rather than rerouting traffic in real time. You absolutely cannot fault the airlines for that. The problem is you don't see ATC, you see the airline employees whom you are flying with.

What you can blame the airlines for is scheduling crews to maximum duty days. Crews have little buffer for these delays because their duty days (especially in summer) are maxed out. Again, that is behind the scenes airline employees creating these schedules, but you only see the ones that have zero control. The worker bees are hating this too as it not only affects their job, but their off time as well. They are flying into off days.

Yes, pricing for airfare is convoluted and even as a retired employee I don't know the algorithm or the rhyme and reason why they price how they do. I wish it would be more transparent, but it is doubtful that will happen.

 

[tvguy]

If skiplagging is not illegal, how does the airline have the authority to detain and question a passenger? Apparently this young man wasn’t stopped by TSA, but at the boarding gate. His age should be irrelevant, other than the fact that he was an inexperienced solo traveller and likely intimidated into “confessing” his plans.

I’m guessing he missed the original flight and was rebooked on a later flight at the higher cost. So AA potentially could have filled his seat for both legs of the original flight to someone on standby and made even more money. But even if they didn’t, they aren’t losing money if the seat was left empty, because it was already paid for. As others have said, airlines routinely overbook and bump passengers from flights. Doesn’t seem fair that airlines get to have it both ways, and it’s the passengers who get fleeced.

Current legislation pending in Congress, called the Airline Passengers’ Bill Of Rights is intended to address some of these issues.

Because it is in the contract you agree to when buying the ticket. If you don't like that clause, you can fly another airline that doesn't have it.

 

[EACarlson]

American makes 15-17 optional. This reads like they still require the $150 service fee even if the specific service is declined.

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/special-assistance/unaccompanied-minors.jsp

15-17	• Unaccompanied minor service optional, service fee still applies • Gate escort and guardian contact required • Nonstop flights, or any connecting flight through Charlotte, NC (CLT), Washington Reagan, D.C. (DCA), Dallas-Fort Worth, TX (DFW), New York, NY (JFK and LGA), Los Angeles, CA (LAX), Miami, FL (MIA), Chicago, IL (ORD), Philadelphia, PA (PHL) and Phoenix, AZ (PHX)

As for the driver license, I suppose there may be different rules for a minor traveling alone or it could have been voluntarily presented at TSA or the gate. I believe when a boarding pass is checked at the gate, it will indicate that it was scanned by TSA, and possibly provide an image of the scanned ID.

The service is optional, if you ask for the service you have to pay the $150. Witnessed this on AA two weeks ago.

If skiplagging is not illegal, how does the airline have the authority to detain and question a passenger? Apparently this young man wasn’t stopped by TSA, but at the boarding gate. His age should be irrelevant, other than the fact that he was an inexperienced solo traveller and likely intimidated into “confessing” his plans.

I’m guessing he missed the original flight and was rebooked on a later flight at the higher cost. So AA potentially could have filled his seat for both legs of the original flight to someone on standby and made even more money. But even if they didn’t, they aren’t losing money if the seat was left empty, because it was already paid for. As others have said, airlines routinely overbook and bump passengers from flights. Doesn’t seem fair that airlines get to have it both ways, and it’s the passengers who get fleeced.

Current legislation pending in Congress, called the Airline Passengers’ Bill Of Rights is intended to address some of these issues.

It's part of the contract of carriage you agree to when you book an airline ticket. You agree that you plan to fly the entire itinerary as ticketed and they agree to get you from origin to destination.
Regularly bumping passengers depends on your definition of regularly. In 2022 0.003% of airline passengers were Involuntarily Denied Boarding. Delta had 0, American had I believe around 50 and United had a couple hundred.

 

[bcla]

A few answers to questions:
15 is the youngest you can fly unaccompanied without needing to pay the Unaccompanied Minor fee. You can chose to use the service from 15-17 year of age, but is is not required.

I found the description of confusing, like it would be charged for all minors traveling alone, even if there was no unaccompanied minor service requested.

 

[tvguy]

What is an “illegal” connection? I haven’t used a travel agent in many many years for a simple airline booking. The internet makes it unnecessary. I can find the best deal and times I want easily on my own.

I wanted to fly from Sacramento to Salt Lake City and connect to a flight to Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. I think it had to do with it being an International Flight where I did not pass through customers on the first flight. But Internet sites were what suggested this routing even though I would have been denied boarding in Salt Lake City. Glad I decided to have my Travel Agent book it because their more sophisticated booking software caught that. Well worth the $25 fee she charged to book the flight. My routing was much cheaper, and cut the travel time almost in half including time for the change of planes in Salt Lake City.

 

[tvguy]

...and what are their damages? The airline has to prove they were hurt financially. The passenger paid for a flight. For example, if I'm an Uber driver and get paid $50 to travel from Attleboro to Boston and the customer decides he wants out in Quincy ...what are my damages??? That an Uber from Attleboro to Quincy would have been $60? Even so, I haven't incurred an actual loss -my expenses were the same or less. No judge in the world is going to side with a big corporation versus an individual in something as petty as this.

Like I mentioned, many of these situations involve the airline getting a subsidy from a city for each passenger they fly in. The airline offered a lower fare on the longer flight because if the passenger had continued on to the final booked destination, they would have gotten that subsidy from the final city. The passenger contracted for, and paid for a flight to the FINAL destination. The airline quoted a price based on the subsidy the airline was getting for delivering the passenger to the FINAL destination. The passenger breached the contract and the airline lost whatever subsidy they would have gotten. Basic contract law.

 

[sam_gordon]

I found the description of confusing, like it would be charged for all minors traveling alone, even if there was no unaccompanied minor service requested.

Based purely on the snippet I posted earlier from Amercian, if a child under 14 needs to fly, they must be an "unaccompanied minor" and you pay a fee. Children 15-17, it's optional.

Back to the article, while I agree, I have some issues with "detaining" someone over this, keep in mind, that's the word the dad used. We don't know what actually happened.

I also have my doubts about the dad saying he's been skiplagging for 5-8 years. Either he uses a lot of different airlines or he doesn't fly very much. I can't imagine an airline not catching on that he's made the first leg of a flight and not the second frequently.

 

[tvguy]

As @NotUrsula said, they don't go to court. They cancel tickets/FF miles.

I'm still curious what led to the airline questioning the ticket.

Yes, they opted not to go to court, most likely because minors can not be held to contracts. I suspect the minor was honest and may have told someone with the airline that he was getting off before his final ticketed destination. He may not have known that the adult that booked the ticket had violated the provisions of the ticket.

 

[sam_gordon]

...and what are their damages? The airline has to prove they were hurt financially. The passenger paid for a flight. For example, if I'm an Uber driver and get paid $50 to travel from Attleboro to Boston and the customer decides he wants out in Quincy ...what are my damages??? That an Uber from Attleboro to Quincy would have been $60? Even so, I haven't incurred an actual loss -my expenses were the same or less. No judge in the world is going to side with a big corporation versus an individual in something as petty as this.

I agree the airline couldn't prove damages in court. That's why this would never go to court (despite tvguy's claims). An airline CAN ban the person from flying and rescind FF points. I'm not sure they even have the power to charge the flyer the difference in ticket price for the first leg.

Yet some average person finds a loophole to benefit from and all of a sudden it's a big deal.

But it's not a loophole and it's not "all of a sudden". It's been the polices of airlines for a while that you can't do it. "Can't do it" means it's not allowed, therefore not a loophole.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes, they opted not to go to court, most likely because minors can not be held to contracts. I suspect the minor was honest and may have told someone with the airline that he was getting off before his final ticketed destination. He may not have known that the adult that booked the ticket had violated the provisions of the ticket.

No, they "opted" to not go to court because there's no case.

Here's an article about the practice... https://simpleflying.com/what-is-skiplagging/

Smarter Travel notes that courts seem to be legally on the travelers' side, with Lufthansa and United having lost lawsuits against skiplaggers. A court in Spain even specifically ruled that skiplagging and hidden-city ticketing is legal.

Despite this, there are other things to consider, as airlines might have a certain amount of leverage over you. This could include your hard-earned, accumulated frequent flyer mileage, elite status, and membership. Airlines could even ban you outright. Considering all this, even if you think you can win a legal battle, you may not have the time, energy, or money to fight them in court.

 

[tvguy]

No, they "opted" to not go to court because there's no case.

Here's an article about the practice... https://simpleflying.com/what-is-skiplagging/

If you read the article, some cases the passenger wins, some cases, the airline wins. That tells me there is a case, except as noted where the passenger is a minor and minors can't be held to contracts.

 

[china mom]

Based purely on the snippet I posted earlier from Amercian, if a child under 14 needs to fly, they must be an "unaccompanied minor" and you pay a fee. Children 15-17, it's optional.

Back to the article, while I agree, I have some issues with "detaining" someone over this, keep in mind, that's the word the dad used. We don't know what actually happened.

I also have my doubts about the dad saying he's been skiplagging for 5-8 years. Either he uses a lot of different airlines or he doesn't fly very much. I can't imagine an airline not catching on that he's made the first leg of a flight and not the second frequently.

I was just coming to say that. Detaining was a word that was probably used first by he dad and repeated by the reporter. What is "detaining" The gate agent says "hey, hang on a minute, i need to ask you a question". Was he detained and interrogated? If this is the case, I have detained and interrogated an uncountable number of people in my life. I think I just detained and interrogated the shelf stocker at the grocery store when I was looking for salsa

Also, too lazy to look it up and respond to the posters who said it but this was not his first time flying. According to the article it was his first time flying alone. I'm betting money that it wasn't his first time using hidden city/skipjacking. If his family did it often, I bet he has done it with them.

 

[sam_gordon]

If you read the article, some cases the passenger wins, some cases, the airline wins. That tells me there is a case, except as noted where the passenger is a minor and minors can't be held to contracts.

Please quote from the article where it said an airline won a case.

 

[fly girl]

I found the description of confusing, like it would be charged for all minors traveling alone, even if there was no unaccompanied minor service requested.

@sam_gordon nailed it.

Anyone 5-14 MUST be an unaccompanied minor, UMNR, if traveling alone and pay the fee. You cannot fly alone under age of 5. There are restrictions with ages and connecting flights, but they can vary.

If your child is age 15-17, they can fly solo and be on their own, no fee. They don't show up on flight attendants paperwork. However, if you want you can have them assisted through the airport(s) you can list as an unaccompanied minor (UMNR), you pay the fee.

What does UMNR include:
You are paying to be able to go with your child through security, see them off at the gate. They are taken down to plane escorted by an agent. The agent hands off the paperwork to the flight attendant. They have all the information on the child though multiple pieces of paperwork. If child is connecting, they are escorted through the connecting airport by an employee and the same routine of handoff happens on next flight with the flight attendants. When child reaches destination, the flight attendant escorts child off plane and meets the person picking child up at the gate. Flight attendant verifies ID and paperwork match, has the them sign, and hands paperwork to gate agent.

 

[bcla]

I do kind of equate this to train travel, where it's actually quite common to get off at an intermediate stop between endpoints on a ticket. But that's a different dynamic, where it can be within the rules set. When I used to commute on Amtrak, I'd get what was called a "multi-ride" ticket where I actually bought it for two endpoints that were on the far edges of my possible travel, but where I might travel in between. I might pay a little bit more (or sometimes not) but I would get a bit of flexibility. I remember when a conductor came up to "punch" my ticket (eventually this became virtual, but it was previously a hole punched in a spot on the ticket) I was asked where I wanted to get off, as long as it was any point up to the endpoint of my ticket.

But there was a lot of flexibility. Most of my train travel was considered "unreserved" where theoretically I was on a manifest for a specific train, but I could use my ticket (almost) any time before or after (up to a year after the ticket purchase date) unless there was some sort of time restriction on it. Some routes were considered "reserved" for specific dates around holidays. So not showing up didn't cause any kind of panic. Passengers getting off at intermediate stops for airline travel creates issues with head count. I've heard of the skiplagging/hidden-city passenger resulting in flights being delayed as flight attendants tried to match the head count to the passengers and figure out who got off and whether or not they might have had checked baggage (i.e. worries about explosives or something else) or possibly left behind something that could be dangerous.

And I've done a few things to save money on train travel. I couldn't really do it when I did points bookings, since they weren't subject to normal discounts, although there could be points discount promotions. But one of the things I did once was book with a 20% Disneyland promotional cash fare discount that required that one of the endpoints was Anaheim. The discount was on the entire fare including any associated bus segment. I did actually board in Anaheim the last time I took the discount, but previously I booked that discount where I ended up boarding in Los Angeles. The full fare is $60 from either Anaheim or LA to Oakland for my specific route.

https://www.pacificsurfliner.com/offers/promotions/save-on-disneyland/​

AMTRAK TERMS AND CONDITIONS:​

This offer is valid for 20% off the regular (full) adult rail fare.​

********​

Travel is valid to Anaheim, CA and return only. This offer is valid for travel on the Pacific Surfliner and associated Thruways; except not valid on the 7000-8999 Thruways.​

I have a (PDF) ticket stored and the boilerplate terms say that travel is allowed within the endpoints, but then says that promotions may limit that.

eTickets for Unreserved Coach services are valid within the limits of the city-pair paid for and within one year of purchase, unless otherwise restricted by any special or promotional fare paid. Seats may not be available and you may have to stand.​

But Amtrak train travel is really weird because mostly the tickets are checked on board, with the exception of some stations with gates like NY Penn Station. I've been on an Amtrak train where I waited a long time for a conductor to check my ticket, and even where it never got checked (one conductor told me to feel free to reuse such a ticket). I've boarded in Anaheim going north, where my ticket wasn't checked until I got well past Los Angeles, so if they see me with a ticket near (let's say) Ventura, it's hard to know exactly where I boarded. And for the most part they don't care like the airlines do about hidden-city. But yeah I get that I might be running afoul of the rules, but this is one where I doubt there's much that they'll do about it.

 

[NotUrsula]

Like I mentioned, many of these situations involve the airline getting a subsidy from a city for each passenger they fly in. The airline offered a lower fare on the longer flight because if the passenger had continued on to the final booked destination, they would have gotten that subsidy from the final city. The passenger contracted for, and paid for a flight to the FINAL destination. The airline quoted a price based on the subsidy the airline was getting for delivering the passenger to the FINAL destination. The passenger breached the contract and the airline lost whatever subsidy they would have gotten. Basic contract law.

There are not as many cities with subsidies as there once were, and in any case, JFK certainly wouldn't be one of them. Any local subsidies may vary, but the Federal program requires that eligible airports have a 2 year commercial passenger count of under 100K passengers a year, and also that it not be located within 75 miles of any US airport that does move that many passengers. The reality is that most of the subsidized airports are in Alaska and very rural areas of midwestern and western states.

I'm not calling the airlines evil; they are doing it to maximize revenue, which is fair, but that being the case, I think it's also fair that if a passenger wants to take the risk of whatever consequences the airline can levy, then that passenger has an equal right to try to save money. Trying to sue someone for not using a service they paid for (and allowing the merchant to re-sell that service) would get you laughed out of any court in the country. Local governments take a calculated risk when they over-rely on PFCs to fund operations.

 

[tvguy]

There are not as many cities with subsidies as there once were, and in any case, JFK certainly wouldn't be one of them. Any local subsidies may vary, but the Federal program requires that eligible airports have a 2 year commercial passenger count of under 100K passengers a year, and also that it not be located within 75 miles of any US airport that does move that many passengers. The reality is that most of the subsidized airports are in Alaska and very rural areas of midwestern and western states.

I'm not calling the airlines evil; they are doing it to maximize revenue, which is fair, but that being the case, I think it's also fair that if a passenger wants to take the risk of whatever consequences the airline can levy, then that passenger has an equal right to try to save money. Trying to sue someone for not using a service they paid for (and allowing the merchant to re-sell that service) would get you laughed out of any court in the country. Local governments take a calculated risk when they over-rely on PFCs to fund operations.

No so sure they would laughed out of court. That's what the entire Small Claims Court system exists for. To resolve petty dispute with less than $5,000 at issue. But not sure an airline would go to that extreme. They would just put an alert on that passenger for the future to make sure they adhere to the contract.