Sixth grade boys caught texting in class

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, in my first post on this thread, I did suggest that parents should be called and and asked.... That would be acceptable.

 

[wvjules]

Question: Is it possible the texts that got the boys caught WERE proof of cheating (ie: the teacher found them texting answers during a test)? Does that give the princpal the "right" to look through old texts to see if they've done this before?Also, love the PP who said (paraphrasing) "once they looked through the texts for suicidal thoughts, attackets, etc, if they didn't find any, they should stop looking". Um, you can't have it both ways. Either the principal is allowed to look through the texts or they're not.

Bold #1 - No.


Bold #2 - They're not.

 

[princessmom29]

Question: Is it possible the texts that got the boys caught WERE proof of cheating (ie: the teacher found them texting answers during a test)? Does that give the princpal the "right" to look through old texts to see if they've done this before?

Also, love the PP who said (paraphrasing) "once they looked through the texts for suicidal thoughts, attackets, etc, if they didn't find any, they should stop looking". Um, you can't have it both ways. Either the principal is allowed to look through the texts or they're not.

According to law, at least in our state, all expectation of privacy ends at the schoolhouse door. It si clearly spelled out in our handbook that all property is subject to search at any time and for any reason. If you don't want it read or looked through, do not bring it to school. The rule is in place for the safety of the students, and to insure the administration's ability to effectively run the school. In this case, if those boys didn't want those texts read by school officials, they should have deleted them. They were clearly in the wrong here, and the principal was within her rights to investigate. This is exactly how it would be handled in our school. If she had taken those phones and not looked at the content of the text, and it had been questionable or violent she and the school could be held responsible for NOT looking. School officials need to have the authority to do thier jobs in order to keep the students in thier care safe.

 

[princessmom29]

Yes!!! I agree with that one part... ( and ONLY that one part... vehemently agree with any justification for invasion of privacy)
As the PARENT, and as the person who is paying for their 'priviledge' of having and using these things... You bet my sweet biddy I would be able to check...

But, anyone else... IMHO... a CRIME.

by law, it is not. There is no expectation of privacy at school.

 

[ols386]

If my kid got in trouble for texting during class, I would definitly support the phone being taken away from them, and reading the texts that were sent during school, with me (as the owner of the phone) there when the texts are being read. If my kid is cheating or anything deceptive like that, I certainly want to know about it.

If it were my kid, he would not be taking the phone to school for a very long time.

 

[wvjules]

by law, it is not. There is no expectation of privacy at school.

Did the Supreme court address this last year? A girl was searched and her mother felt her civil rights were violated? The school said she lost those rights when she passed through the school doors. What was the outcome of that? I know it went all the way up to the Supreme court but don't remember what the outcome was.

 

[plutotek]

But, anyone else... IMHO... a CRIME.

Bold #1 - No.


Bold #2 - They're not.

Well, you may want to check your local laws, because if there are laws on the books permitting it, then YES, they ARE allowed and it is NOT a crime, whether you agree with it or not.

 

[DISvirgin1]

I don't think anybody has argued that a 6th grader needs a phone in class.

Everything I have read says that if the 6th grader is caught, punish him. Take the phone away. Give him detention. Make him write a 500 word essay on why texting in class is not a good idea.

If cheating is suspected, then punish the child with the exact same punishment that any other form of cheating is given. If a child has the answers written on the inside of his hat (see this a lot in high school), does the school have the right to strip the kid and look at all his other clothes to check for cheating? No. The child is punished for THAT incident.

Nobody said the child shouldn't be punished for breaking the rules.

The only thing that was said is that the principal does not have the right to access the phone and read any data that is not THE text that the child was caught sending.

The kid was wrong. Digging through somebody's private information is also wrong.

My parents always told me that 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Edited to add:

I also think the type of phone kids carry in your area colors your perspective.

In my kid's middle school, most of the kids have some sort of smart phone, be it an Iphone, a Droid, a Blackberry or some other smart phone. My 8th grader has a Samsung Epic 4g. His 2 best friends have Iphones. 2 other boys in our carpool have Droids. Another kid has a blackberry. Lots of kids are carrying their parent's hand-me-down smart phones. There is a WHOLE lot of potential data on these phones that principals just don't need to see. For instance, they don't need to access the 14 year old girls menstrual cycle tracking app.

When you pull up texting on my child's phone, it gives a list of all the people and the first few lines of the text. So, if the principal entered the messaging area, they would see every latest text from everybody, including any that may be personal from parents, etc, at a single glance. None of their business really.
However, the old style phones are not so easy to access more personal information, so it would be much easier to allow a principal to access a phone that just texts and doesn't have a ton of personal apps on it.

Once again, there is no expectation of privacy at school. The courts have frequently sided with the schools on this issue. If you (general you) are dumb enough to put personal info out "there" where anyone can see it, even after repeated reminders about not hanging it all out there then too bad, so sad. And what in the world are you texting to your child while they are in school and supposed to be paying attention that is soooo private/important? "pick u up later?" I'm sure the administrators find that titillating

 

[wvjules]

Found it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/25/AR2009062501690.html

In a case that had drawn attention from educators, parents and civil libertarians across the country, the court ruled 8 to 1 that such an intrusive search without the threat of a clear danger to other students violated the Constitution's protections against unreasonable search or seizure.

 

[goofy!]

Did the Supreme court address this last year? A girl was searched and her mother felt her civil rights were violated? The school said she lost those rights when she passed through the school doors. What was the outcome of that? I know it went all the way up to the Supreme court but don't remember what the outcome was.

In that case, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the child.

Title: Recent School Law Decisions Affecting Student Privacy Rights, Special Education, Grievance Procedures, and Charter Schools
Date: July, 2009
Publication: From the July 2009 Riker Danzig School Law UPDATE
Author(s): Kenneth M. Van Deventer, Lance J. Kalik, Brenda C. Liss, Stephanie M. Panico

Area(s) of Practice: School Law


Safford Unified School Dist. No. 1 v. Redding
United States Supreme Court, June 25, 2009

The United States Supreme Court ruled in this case from Arizona that the strip-search of 13-year-old Savana Redding by a female school nurse and administrative assistant was not sufficiently justified by their suspicion that Savana was in possession of contraband to survive a challenge based on the Fourth Amendment prohibition against unreasonable searches.

Acting on instructions of a vice-principal, who in turn was acting on the basis of statements made by other students implicating Savana (including statements by another girl who also was strip-searched), the nurse and assistant were looking for contraband prescription-strength ibuprofen pills. According to the Court, after complying with orders to remove her pants and shirt, Savana "was told to pull her bra out and to the side and shake it, and to pull out the elastic on her underpants, thus exposing her breasts and pelvic area to some degree." Also, according to the Court, "No pills were found."

The Court reaffirmed the rule established in its 1985 decision, New Jersey v. T.L.O., that a search of a student by school officials will be upheld against a Fourth Amendment challenge when it is "justified in its inception" and "the measures adopted are reasonably related to the objectives of the search and not excessively intrusive in light of the age and sex of the student and the nature of the infraction." It explained that this rule requires at least "a moderate chance of finding evidence of wrongdoing." The school district had attempted to justify the search of Savana by suggesting, "as a truth universally acknowledged," that "students … hide contraband in or under their clothing." The Court responded:

[W]hen the categorically extreme intrusiveness of a search down to the body of an adolescent requires some justification in suspected facts, general background possibilities fall short; a reasonable search that extensive calls for suspicion that it will pay off. But non-dangerous school contraband does not raise the specter of stashes in intimate places, and there is no evidence in the record of any general practice among Safford Middle School students of hiding that sort of thing in underwear; neither [of the other students] suggested to [the vice-principal] that Savana was doing that, and the preceding search [of the other student] … had yielded nothing….

[W]hat was missing from the suspected facts that pointed to Savana was any indication of danger to the students from the power of the drugs in their quantity, and any reason to suppose that Savana was carrying pills in her underwear. We think the combination of these deficiencies was fatal to finding the search reasonable.

The Court then added:

…[W]e mean to cast no ill reflection on the assistant principal, for the record raises no doubt that his motive throughout was to eliminate drugs from the school and protect students …. We do mean, though, to make it clear that the T.L..O. concern to limit a school search to reasonable scope requires the support of reasonable suspicion of danger or of resort to underwear for hiding evidence of wrongdoing before a search can reasonably make the quantum leap from outer clothes and backpacks to exposure to intimate parts. The meaning of such a search, and the degradation its subject may reasonably feel, place a search that intrusive in a category of its own demanding its own specific suspicions.

The Court also ruled, however, that the numerous decisions by lower courts upholding similiar searches based on their reading of T.L.O. "counsel doubt that [the Court] was sufficiently clear in the prior statement of the law," so that the school officials involved here were entitled to immunity from suit. It remanded the case for a determination of the school district's liability.

 

[DAD21]

Some.

If my 10th grader got busted texting in school, I wouldn't waste a minute of my time listening to her complain about the principal reading her texts. I would too busy figuring out how to punish her.

Amen.

 

[DAD21]

I personally would have been very peeved if they scrolled through my kids phone and read their texts.

You are joking?

 

[goofy!]

Once again, there is no expectation of privacy at school. The courts have frequently sided with the schools on this issue. If you (general you) are dumb enough to put personal info out "there" where anyone can see it, even after repeated reminders about not hanging it all out there then too bad, so sad. And what in the world are you texting to your child while they are in school and supposed to be paying attention that is soooo private/important? "pick u up later?" I'm sure the administrators find that titillating

We aren't dumb enough to put our personal info "out there."

That is why our phones, including my kids phone, is password protected.

The principal would not be able to access any information on it until she called me. Problem solved.

and right back at ya.

FWIW - I don't text my kid during school. What I am talking about is seeing private information that might have been texted off hours.

For instance, I used the example that one of my children texted me asking a question about some medication they were taking. It was not texted during school hours.

However, if the principal accessed the messaging area and started to sroll through texts, she probably would have read the message about the medication.

The principal had no right to view medical information, even a simple text about a specific medication. They have no right to know what my kid is taking.

I am also talking about other information that is available on a smart phone that the principal could access if they were nosy enough.

But as I said, we don't worry about it, as the phone is protected and the principal and teachers couldn't get into if even they wanted to.

Not that my kid has ever even thought about taking it out of his backpack as he knows he would face far greater consequences at home than he would at school for breaking the rules.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

Well, the parents would make some civil liberties lawyers very happy. Civil rights firms around the country are looking for some test cases as the law is not settled in this area.

 

[kydisneyfans]

I would be upset at the teacher for making the class so boring that students would even have time to text each other.

 

[DISvirgin1]

We aren't dumb enough to put our personal info "out there."

That is why our phones, including my kids phone, is password protected.

The principal would not be able to access any information on it until she called me. Problem solved.

and right back at ya.

FWIW - I don't text my kid during school. What I am talking about is seeing private information that might have been texted off hours.

For instance, I used the example that one of my children texted me asking a question about some medication they were taking. It was not texted during school hours.

However, if the principal accessed the messaging area and started to sroll through texts, she probably would have read the message about the medication.

The principal had no right to view medical information, even a simple text about a specific medication. They have no right to know what my kid is taking.

I am also talking about other information that is available on a smart phone that the principal could access if they were nosy enough.

But as I said, we don't worry about it, as the phone is protected and the principal and teachers couldn't get into if even they wanted to.

Not that my kid has ever even thought about taking it out of his backpack as he knows he would face far greater consequences at home than he would at school for breaking the rules.

Phones get lost every day, and every day people find out there their "oh so secure" passwords are not. Let's not forget about the people who have lost their jobs over the supposedly "private" facebook/twitter posts (some of which were posted on their own time away from work)...Happens all. the. time. And then everyone whines "but it was supposed to be priiiiiiiivaaaate." The arguement that she may have seen things texted off hours is nonsense - she looked at what was texted *that* day during the school hours. The courts are not going to agree with the parents and the schools are going to waste taxpayer money defending it.

 

[princessmom29]

Found it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/25/AR2009062501690.html

The judgment also included that a search was valid if there was asuspected attempt to hide wrongdoing, whuch is where the boys texting in class would fall. They were attempting to text without getting caught, and could have been tecting anything, including answers. The principal was justified in checking the texts.

 

[princessmom29]

We aren't dumb enough to put our personal info "out there."

That is why our phones, including my kids phone, is password protected.

The principal would not be able to access any information on it until she called me. Problem solved.

and right back at ya.

FWIW - I don't text my kid during school. What I am talking about is seeing private information that might have been texted off hours.

For instance, I used the example that one of my children texted me asking a question about some medication they were taking. It was not texted during school hours.

However, if the principal accessed the messaging area and started to sroll through texts, she probably would have read the message about the medication.

The principal had no right to view medical information, even a simple text about a specific medication. They have no right to know what my kid is taking.

I am also talking about other information that is available on a smart phone that the principal could access if they were nosy enough.

But as I said, we don't worry about it, as the phone is protected and the principal and teachers couldn't get into if even they wanted to.

Not that my kid has ever even thought about taking it out of his backpack as he knows he would face far greater consequences at home than he would at school for breaking the rules.

actually, it is really easy to get into a password protected cell. We call the police to school several times a year to do this for us when we suspect a student of dealing on campus. They bring a device that plugs into the phone and downloads everything. It takes aobut 5 minutes. If they want in, they will get it.

I don't uderstand why it would be such a big deal for the principal to know a child was on medication? If I thought the teachers and administration at the school were not professional enough to be privy to that kind of information I would not be trusting them with my child. I would want the school to know about ALL medication my child takes in case something happened to him or her at school. Not having that informaiton could cause a delay in treatment or result in treatment doing more harm than good.

 

[kimmyann]

I know where I live the parent and the student must sign a student code of conduct at the beginning of each year and ours clearly states that students are subject to random searches and that cell phone texts will be read if they use them during school. I'm pretty sure these days that most school systems have this in place. If you don't agree with it then send your kid somewhere else or maybe the parents need to actually take the time to read before they sign.

The day that schools have to give kids full rights and not be able to protect other students is the day my kids will never set foot in another public school again. Parents that think it is taking away their kids rights to search belongings and especially to search texts when being used in the classroom, I think by the school doing nothing is taking away my kids right to be protected while at school. How about teaching your kids to be responsible for their actions. That's just my opinion on the whole thing, it's not directed at anyone in particular.

 

[Pigeon]

I would be upset at the teacher for making the class so boring that students would even have time to text each other.

OK that's the funniest thing I've read in a very long time. All I can think of is the Monty Python sketch from the Meaning of Life involving the two teachers and the ocarina.



Have you ever taught?