Significant Increase in Annual Dues Proposed

[Mumof4mice]

https://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/d...29-sharp-increases-to-hit-owners-in-2019-dues

If the bulk of the increase is indeed paying for minimum wage increases, I'm okay with it. Anyone going to the condo meeting in December?

 

[DaveNan]

Ouch!!

 

[jodifla]

I thought dues could only go up a limited percentage each year?

 

[stuartsong]

An average of 10% at lot of the resorts.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I thought dues could only go up a limited percentage each year?

15% not including property taxes. Taxes are not limited.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

https://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/d...29-sharp-increases-to-hit-owners-in-2019-dues

If the bulk of the increase is indeed paying for minimum wage increases, I'm okay with it. Anyone going to the condo meeting in December?

I do not think that much of a rise is cool no matter what reason. To some extent it conveys poor management. Lack of stability for owners. I do not think they are going to be selling Riviera as high as I originally thought. Nor will it go as quickly.

 

[kboo]

We were thinking of adding on - probably still will, but I'm hoping this means more of a buyer' s market.

 

[aoconnor]

Wow- brutal and record-breaking increases. The past 10+ years dues have generally increased 2-5% for most resorts. No resort has ever seen over a 10% increase except HHI in 2006-2007.

 

[jodybird511]

Honestly, I'm good with paying $5 more per month, if it means CMs earn a living wage.

 

[Matty B13]

Wish I had rented out my extra 2019 points for $20/point now......

 

[LYSE]

Nice our first dues we pay outside of initial purchase...

We have been thinking of adding on as well..I guess we still will but the new dues will probably affect our decision.

 

[skippytx]

Totally fine with it, if it helps pay a better wage to the folks that help make our vacations wonderful. I'm looking at another 88 dollars a year. Not significant at all when it comes to the cost of a trip to WDW.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

The problem isn't the one time 88 dollars (although I suspect for most people it will be significantly more than that). It is the trajectory and departure from precedent. Not a sign of stable management.

 

[Bing Showei]

The problem isn't the one time 88 dollars (although I suspect for most people it will be significantly more than that). It is the trajectory and departure from precedent. Not a sign of stable management.

But what is the trajectory? We have one new data point that appears to be a departure from historical precedence. Is it the start of a trend? Or is it an outlier? We don't know.

BWV is up 9.5% this year, but last year, it was up only 1.2%.
AKV is up 10.1% this year, but last year, it was up only 2.59%.
PVB is up 9.1% this year, but last year, it was up only 1.1%

It may be that Disney realizes, "Hey, people aren't jumping ship!" and 2020 gives us another 10% increase in dues. But right now, we can't make any kind of grounded judgement on that.

A lot of hand wringing, but the truth is, people aren't going to flee DVC. And the reason why? Because of what skippytx pointed out; namely, the actual dollar increase for most people are not significant in the grand scheme of the thousands upon thousands of dollars that we lay at the altar of the mouse every year.

Sure, we'll belly ache. But we'll also continue to make our annual pilgrimage to the fake castle. And until we let our money do the talking, to Disney, it's just noise.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

But what is the trajectory? We have one new data point that appears to be a departure from historical precedence. Is it the start of a trend? Or is it an outlier? We don't know.

BWV is up 9.5% this year, but last year, it was up only 1.2%.
AKV is up 10.1% this year, but last year, it was up only 2.59%.
PVB is up 9.1% this year, but last year, it was up only 1.1%

It may be that Disney realizes, "Hey, people aren't jumping ship!" and 2020 gives us another 10% increase in dues. But right now, we can't make any kind of grounded judgement on that.

A lot of hand wringing, but the truth is, people aren't going to flee DVC. And the reason why? Because of what skippytx pointed out; namely, the actual dollar increase for most people are not significant in the grand scheme of the thousands upon thousands of dollars that we lay at the altar of the mouse every year.

Sure, we'll belly ache. But we'll also continue to make annual our pilgrimage to the fake castle. And until we let our money do the talking, to Disney, it's just noise.

I wonder what the "guides" will say in their spiel now? Because every pitch I've heard was that you can expect an increase of 5% or under. 10% of anything is a serious jump. Whether or not people act on that? I do not know. We were planning on about 500 points total but we are rethinking that and may hold at 300. It isn't just the money-- it really does make me wonder about the management. They are reminding me a bit of government, not private enterprise.

 

[crisi]

I wonder what the "guides" will say in their spiel now? Because every pitch I've heard was that you can expect an increase of 5% or under. 10% of anything is a serious jump. Whether or not people act on that? I do not know. We were planning on about 500 points total but we are rethinking that and may hold at 300. It isn't just the money-- it really does make me wonder about the management. They are reminding me a bit of government, not private enterprise.

They will say "on average, dues have gone up X% a year" and if this one is pointed to - "we had this one time increase because we decided that our staff deserved a living wage." But the vast majority of buyers - whether direct or resale - aren't going to be looking at historical dues anyway. People don't do that much research - and very few focus on ongoing costs.

As Bing said, one point does not a trend make.

And quite frankly, anyone spending thousands of dollars a year at Disney who begrudges the staff $15 an hour is exploiting other human beings.

I would expect dues to continue to increase. Security has been increasing. Insurance costs. Climate change is going to affect maintenance costs. That's reality, not bad management. We are owners, we have a responsibility to maintain our property.

 

[Bing Showei]

I wonder what the "guides" will say in their spiel now? Because every pitch I've heard was that you can expect an increase of 5% or under. 10% of anything is a serious jump. Whether or not people act on that? I do not know. We were planning on about 500 points total but we are rethinking that and may hold at 300. It isn't just the money-- it really does make me wonder about the management. They are reminding me a bit of government, not private enterprise.

They remind me a lot of private enterprise. They remind me of AT&T in the early 80's they operated the Bell System and owned every phone in America. They remind me of OPEC in the 70's when they controlled the world's oil supply. They remind me of cable companies today in markets where they are literally the only player in town.

Disney is far from government, they are capitalism at its finest. We all are free to walk away, but we don't. Disney makes a good product, and for a piece of that sweet, sweet "Disney Magic" they are the only show in town.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

They will say "on average, dues have gone up X% a year" and if this one is pointed to - "we had this one time increase because we decided that our staff deserved a living wage." But the vast majority of buyers - whether direct or resale - aren't going to be looking at historical dues anyway. People don't do that much research - and very few focus on ongoing costs.

As Bing said, one point does not a trend make.

And quite frankly, anyone spending thousands of dollars a year at Disney who begrudges the staff $15 an hour is exploiting other human beings.

I would expect dues to continue to increase. Security has been increasing. Insurance costs. Climate change is going to affect maintenance costs. That's reality, not bad management. We are owners, we have a responsibility to maintain our property.

I disagree. I think good management smooths things out and does not allow for large jumps, regardless of costs.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

They remind me a lot of private enterprise. They remind me of AT&T in the early 80's they operated the Bell System and owned every phone in America. They remind me of OPEC in the 70's when they controlled the world's oil supply. They remind me of cable companies today in markets where they are literally the only player in town.

Disney is far from government, they are capitalism at its finest. We all are free to walk away, but we don't. Disney makes a good product, and for a piece of that sweet, sweet "Disney Magic" they are the only show in town.

Exactly, "bad" companies. And those all look a lot like government. Lol. I did not think Disney was one of those.

 

[crisi]

I disagree. I think good management smooths things out and does not allow for large jumps, regardless of costs.

That would be nice, but that isn't reality because DVC can't work that way. They can't legally set aside huge reserves to cover unexpected expenses (they can for capital improvements) like increases in wages. They can't legally borrow from other parts of the business to cover them either. They functionally work on a more or less cash basis - each year the budget has to balance out - more or less. If there is a jump in wages, there is a jump in costs - and a jump in our dues. What do you expect management to do - not meet their contractual obligations to pay people what they said they would? (Keep in mind that a living wage is a huge PR thing right now - if Disney workers were to strike over a living wage, while Disney rolls around in record profits, they'd have a bigger problem than DVC owners. And DVC CMs are one portion of a combined collective bargaining agreement - this isn't just DVC getting paid more.) Lay off front desk staff and mousekeeping to keep overall wages in line so that our rooms aren't clean and we spend more time waiting for assistance? I'm interested in your solution to this.