Sick time

[disneychrista]

I think the problem I'm having is you're describing it as FMLA time.

That just hasn't been utilized the way you're describing IME and through HR paperwork. Like when my mom went out on Short-Term disability she did not use FMLA time as that made no sense whatsoever. That's up to 12 weeks of unpaid time. Why would anyone do that when they can instead get paid 60-70% (I believe that was Short-Term) when that is available. I think that's why the poster was bringing up the other ways their company did it.

At the company we worked at FMLA time was when you've exhausted your PTO (which could be 3,4,5,6+ weeks plus up to 40hours you could carry over year to year) for qualifying events but it was unpaid. Whereas short-term was use 40 hours of PTO (which is 100% fully paid) then short-term kicks in (at whatever percentage it was can't exactly remember).

I don't know about you but exhausting your PTO before FMLA can be used isn't an enhancement. I think what the law is there for is just to prevent a company from terminating you for a qualifying situation but that isn't the same thing as using FMLA time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is they are two completely different programs. FMLA is unpaid time. I sorta view it as it kicks in depending on one's company policies (or applicable state laws if there is one) but not mutually exclusive with other programs out there that a company may have. Not all companies have disability insurance or employees paid into that so in the absence of those FMLA is there.

Yes, they are two different things. One is an act that protects your job while you are out and the other is income replacements. As long as company policy give you more job protected time then FMLA they are free to set their own policy's. Including FMLA not kicking in until your Short Term Disability ends.

Yes FMLA is unpaid but company policy can require you to use your paid leave while on FMLA or in California you can get CASDI (California Short-Term Disability insurance) or PFL (California Paid Family Leave). That I think is where the disconnect seems to be. FMLA is job protection. Disability, Sick. PTO, etc is income replacement. I have never worked for a company that offered its own short term disability (other than optional AFLAC coverage). Anyone who goes out (on FMLA protected leave) uses their own leave banks &/or CASDI.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes, they are two different things. One is an act that protects your job while you are out and the other is income replacements. As long as company policy give you more job protected time then FMLA they are free to set their own policy's. Including FMLA not kicking in until your Short Term Disability ends.

Yes FMLA is unpaid but company policy can require you to use your paid leave while on FMLA or in California you can get CASDI (California Short-Term Disability insurance) or PFL (California Paid Family Leave). That I think is where the disconnect seems to be. FMLA is job protection. Disability, Sick. PTO, etc is income replacement. I have never worked for a company that offered its own short term disability (other than optional AFLAC coverage). Anyone who goes out (on FMLA protected leave) uses their own leave banks &/or CASDI.

I agree the situations would be different in the absence of any disability coverage because you'd either have purchased it yourself or be left with no other option.

For FMLA you have to file paperwork and actually be put on FMLA, it is not an automatic leave.

IME FMLA was like a last resort thing because other things were more advantageous according to company policy to use although yes you can use it concurrently it still was viewed as last resort. When the PP was talking about what their company was doing it matched up with what my experience has been.

 

[DebbieB]

First 5 days of an occurrence is PTO, then goes to short term disability. That will discourage taking off when not necessary. We can work at home, so the last time I used it was 8 years ago for gall bladder surgery.

 

[disneychrista]

I agree the situations would be different in the absence of any disability coverage because you'd either have purchased it yourself or be left with no other option.

For FMLA you have to file paperwork and actually be put on FMLA, it is not an automatic leave.

IME FMLA was like a last resort thing because other things were more advantageous according to company policy to use although yes you can use it concurrently it still was viewed as last resort. When the PP was talking about what their company was doing it matched up with what my experience has been.

In California there is State run Disability (funded through employee payroll deductions), so employers probably don't see the need to offer a separate insurance.

I think it is very generous of employers to allow an employee to be out for X amount of time through short term disability PLUS the up to 12 weeks JOB PROTECTION that FMLA provides. I'd expect most employers to want to limit the amount of time an employee can be out before they can hire someone to cover the position.

 

[cobright]

How much sick time do you use? …
Just frustrating when you are the only one consecutively here!

1st, her vacation time is part of her compensation plan I assume. You would not begrudge a worker the taking home of what they ears?

As for sick leave? Are the sort that stays home at every runny nose or sore throat? If not, congratulations, she probably caught sick from you.

 

[Princesca]

I have always felt people should take all their sick time, even if it's to mentally or emotionally recharge.

Did I always? No. But I wouldn't fault anyone who did.

If you are suffering from workload issues as a result, that's your employer's problem, not the employee's problem. Many companies are so lean now that they no longer have any redundancy in staff, so one person taking extended leave is a tremendous hardship for those remaining. My last company offered 6 months parental leave but virtually no one could just drop everything and take it. There was no backup available for that kind of task shift. So everyone had to take it piecemeal and hope we got it all in before the calendar year deadline. Many people didn't.

 

[CdnCarrie]

1st, her vacation time is part of her compensation plan I assume. You would not begrudge a worker the taking home of what they ears?

As for sick leave? Are the sort that stays home at every runny nose or sore throat? If not, congratulations, she probably caught sick from you.

I don’t think it’s part of our compensation package. We don’t get paid out of unused sick time or anything of the sort. Nothing set per year. If that was the case I’ve been severely under paid lol!

No I haven’t been sick but great assumption! More them being hypochondriac.

 

[leeniewdw]

This is kind on this topic, but I'm wondering if anyone has had the same experience in their careers. I'm in my late 50s, so when I had kids 20-30 years ago, we have no real "telecommuting/WFH" options. In my line of work (IT), I did have access that most others did not, but that was generally the ability to connect to our UNIX servers from home -- we didn't have laptops.

Anyway, if my kids were sick, I used my sick days and had to swap days with my DH etc. I worked really hard to not have my being a parent interfere with my job role (only 1 other coworker had kids and he had a SAH wife). Fast forward to the last 10 years, my employer has great benefits, WFH obviously (even before covid) and paternity leave which is greater than my Short Term Disability I had to use when I had C-sections! And I think that's great. HOWEVER, I have found that the guys I work with (most 10-20 yrs younger than me) are SO MUCH less concerned about work related things than me. I've had a coworker who had an INFANT (like < 6 months old) where he was caring for the child AND working at the same time. Another coworker had kids going to half day kindergarten and come home after school while he worked (he's permanent WFH, as am I) and also home all summer as elementary school kids while Dad worked in the basement. Our group is a support group that works a hard 8-5 at minimum, it's not the kind of job where you can log in after your kids go to be to catch up -- we're expected to be available. Maybe I've just been trained during a time where such flexibility didn't exist, but I can't imagine doing a good job of parenting and/or working if you've got a 5 year old at home while you work.

It's just been weird to see people use their kids as justification when I worked so hard to NOT use them as justification for anything. Maybe I'm the messed up one. I have a childless friend who is a PharmD at a major medical center. Her coworkers with kids literally tell her "you can do those 7am onsite meetings because you don't have kids and we have to get them to daycare/school". She's stunned that it's just a given. It's one thing to offer (or if you prefer to work early), it's another to just say "you don't have kids, you take the crappy schedule".

 

[sam_gordon]

I don’t think it’s part of our compensation package. We don’t get paid out of unused sick time or anything of the sort. Nothing set per year. If that was the case I’ve been severely under paid lol!

No I haven’t been sick but great assumption! More them being hypochondriac.

I'm confused. You said earlier...

They have more than enough sick time to cover it.

It sounds like they have an allotted amount of sick time and they haven't used it all. If so, it IS part of the "compensation package". And if there's nothing set per year, how do they have enough?

 

[CdnCarrie]

I'm confused. You said earlier...

It sounds like they have an allotted amount of sick time and they haven't used it all. If so, it IS part of the "compensation package". And if there's nothing set per year, how do they have enough?

We have a odd set up (government) where we get 180 sick days from the get go. If you every run out you have to work 6 months and they reset.
There is nothing per year, no payout or rolling over, and no encouragement to take them as part of your compensation package.

My only beef is probably more with my manager that I'm always covering for people who are calling in sick a lot. But on the up side I'm not sick so that's good.

 

[disneychrista]

We have a odd set up (government) where we get 180 sick days from the get go. If you every run out you have to work 6 months and they reset.
There is nothing per year, no payout or rolling over, and no encouragement to take them as part of your compensation package.

My only beef is probably more with my manager that I'm always covering for people who are calling in sick a lot. But on the up side I'm not sick so that's good.

That is very generous. So one could be diagnosed with cancer the first week of employment and take the next six months off with pay?

Sick leave is rarely paid out, in my experience but is most definitely part of the compensation package. Even in California sick leave isn’t paid out on leaving where most other types of leave are. Where I’m at our accrued and unused sick leave goes toward our service time for calculating our pension.

 

[CdnCarrie]

That is very generous. So one could be diagnosed with cancer the first week of employment and take the next six months off with pay?

Sick leave is rarely paid out, in my experience but is most definitely part of the compensation package. Even in California sick leave isn’t paid out on leaving where most other types of leave are. Where I’m at our accrued and unused sick leave goes toward our service time for calculating our pension.

Honestly I don't know. You may have had to put in sometime before it kicks in. I've been here for decades as have my coworkers so don't recall for sure. I do know people that have come back from one year sick leave (cancer,etc) and had have no sick time until it resets.

Sick time has no bearing on calculating pension here at all.

 

[sam_gordon]

We have a odd set up (government) where we get 180 sick days from the get go. If you every run out you have to work 6 months and they reset.
There is nothing per year, no payout or rolling over, and no encouragement to take them as part of your compensation package.

My only beef is probably more with my manager that I'm always covering for people who are calling in sick a lot. But on the up side I'm not sick so that's good.

I would say it's still part of the "compensation package". If you're entitled to take it, it's part of your compensation. It's not your call on whether it's "needed" or not. You can complain to your boss about you always being the one to fill in. If there's no one else who can do the job, maybe suggest training someone else?

 

[wvjules]

I don't think 2 days per month is excessive.

I got Covid at the end of June and there was no way I could work. I literally slept until after noon each day. I tried dialing in to some meetings but it was useless. I had no idea what was going on and couldn't think straight. I took a week off even though I work from home. We don't have sick time only accrued PTO to cover everything. We did have a special absence code for Covid so as to not use PTO but it expired a few months ago. I find my employer to be very generous with time off, mental health awareness, work-life balance, and very supportive teams. We ECOURAGE each other to take time off, if needed, for whatever reason.

 

[ronandannette]

We don’t have that option- you pick your vacation Sept for the whole next year and only in blocks of weeks, cant take individual days

Well, that seems awful to me both as an employee and a boss. Not having the flexibility to use vacation days for needs as they arise is just an invitation for people to misuse designated sick days. If that’s the case, I would expect a company to also offer some amount of flex days or unclassified PTO.

I have always felt people should take all their sick time, even if it's to mentally or emotionally recharge.

Did I always? No. But I wouldn't fault anyone who did.

If you are suffering from workload issues as a result, that's your employer's problem, not the employee's problem. Many companies are so lean now that they no longer have any redundancy in staff, so one person taking extended leave is a tremendous hardship for those remaining. My last company offered 6 months parental leave but virtually no one could just drop everything and take it. There was no backup available for that kind of task shift. So everyone had to take it piecemeal and hope we got it all in before the calendar year deadline. Many people didn't.

Preach!! My company sure learned this the hard way. Between Covid staff-reductions and a general ethic of less-is-more, my department has hit a crisis. During Covid we had a senior member of my staff receive a cancer diagnosis. STD was originally approved by our insurer for 6 months and it was an easy decision to just try and soldier on, to preserve the role for her to return to. We are now going on 2 years. A number shorter-term attendance crisis amongst staff, our on-going Covid isolation requirements and our (insane) policy of allowing overlapping vacations has put us in operational chaos and everyone is on the verge of burn-out. I have PLEADED for authorization to hire at least one more staff member, which was just finally approved a month ago.