Should we pull DD out of private school and put her in public middle school ?

[DVCindy]

I am looking for your thoughts on our current situation with DD. We are really struggling with this decision so I would love to hear your opinions on this ... sorry if it's a little long winded.

DD will be finishing 5th grade this June. She is currently in parochial school ... we moved her out of public school after 3rd grade. The main reason we decided to move her was due to the lack of discipline in the school she was attending. We felt alot of instruction time was lost due to constantly addressing behavior problems and there were no real consequences for the bad behavior. Academically she did very well.

Now I am reconsidering. The school she is currently in is certainly a much better environment in terms of the children's behavior, accountability for your actions, and appropriate consequences if you don't abide by their rules. But I feel their academic standards are not on par with the public schools in the area. She does very well in school ... all A's / an occasional B on report cards and she doesn't work very hard at all. She almost never has homework to do at home. They have a 25 minute "flex" period at the end of the day and she finishes all her homework there. This has bothered me all along.

The real eye opener was last week when we received her standardized test scores. I was stunned to see her Math scores were in the 68th and 39th percentile. How can a student with a 96 average in Math do so poorly when compared to other students nationally. I know it was not a case of test anxiety . She did very well in the Language areas. She did tell me right after she took the test that most of what was on it they had not covered in class (fractions, decimals ). She is in the 2nd highest Math class (out of 4) with only 12 students in the class.

The school tells us the tests don't really count for anything and not to put too much emphasis on them. But come on. To me, how can you ignore this ... I am very concerned they are not keeping up with what is expected to be covered by this point in 5th grade. I'm meeting with the teacher this morning.

I am so torn. I feel DD can do so much more academically. I feel I must choose between the better environment in the parochial school which lacks academic challenge or the public school where we will have to put up with alot of distractions, but I know they can offer her more academically.

If you're still with me, thanks for "listening" ! What do you think ? I'd love some opinions.

Cindy

 

[Christine]

Cindy,
I did the exact opposite of you. We had a very good elementary school in our area as far as discipline and curriculum. My DD started middle school (6th grade). She came home with straight As (first time in her life) and there were many discipline problems in the school. So I put her in parochial school, mainly for the atmopshere. Middle school (at least ours) is a very yucky place. The kids are probably at their worst with insecurities, trying to be so cool, and the peer pressure is incredible. I was fortunate that our parachial school, though, is very rigorous academically.

I haven't seen my DDs standardized tests this year. Our parochial school also uses a different company for their standardized testing than the public schools use so it is very hard to even compare it to anything. My DD also came home with a score of 44 on her math placement test for next year. I just couldn't believe it.

Basically, I don't know what to tell you. Sorry. Right now, I feel that keeping my DD is a more controlled environment is my biggest priority. She will be going to public school for high school but our public high schools seem to be much better than the middle schools. I think, at least in my area, that keeping her more secluded at this age is a bit better.

 

[stinkerbelle]

I'll put it this way...I was taken out of parochial school after 3rd grade because the school was so far behind the public schools. When I started 4th grade...I was behind on my math and geography skills...my 4th grade teacher really had to work with me to get me up to speed.

I still suck at geography...it's a running joke amoung my family and friends.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Is there another private school you could enter her in that has better standards? We had that same struggle, and our DS went to public school through 8th grade and then switched to a private high school. He wanted to switch because of discipline problems in the public school. We were very pleased with the private HS education.

 

[wendyl]

Maybe look into another Private school--one that is still secure, small, but more academically challenging.

Fractions and Decimals should have been a heavy focus in 4th and 5th grade. How do this year's scores compare with previous years?

 

[bananiem]

One thing to consider is at the junior high and high school ages some schools go toward "ability grouping" so she'd be with others on her level. Perhaps some of the behavior problems would be in another class/level. My junior high didn't do that but discpline wasn't a big problem that I recall. Of course, that was in the dark ages too!
Does she know about the possible switch? You may want to get her take on it but let her know that in the end you have the final say. She may come up with a different angle.
It's a tough call. Good luck.

 

[TimeforMe]

First, let me state that I am a big advocate of public education. Our school system in our town is excellent however, and I have never considered sending my kids to any other school. Having said that, there have been times when disciplinary issues have been.......well, issues. My kids attended an elementary school that held the town's deaf ed program and had some inclusion students in their classes as well. I do agree that disciplining students can be quite distracting at times.

I would still, however, send her to the public school--especially if she is falling behind now. It only gets harder. I would speak personally to the principal of the public school, express your concerns and see if they can place your daughter accordingly. You can always try it for a year.

I know others may disagree, but I feel that public schools can offer so much more to the students that private schools can't including equipment, services and quality staff because of funding. Good luck!

 

[cynsaun]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
I'll put it this way...I was taken out of parochial school after 3rd grade because the school was so far behind the public schools. When I started 4th grade...I was behind on my math and geography skills...my 4th grade teacher really had to work with me to get me up to speed.



ME TOO!!!!! I still have "math" problems because I never quite caught up after I returned to public school in the 4th grade!

 

[pammypooh]

I should state up front that I send my 2 DD's to our parish elementary school - and we are quite pleased with its academics.

I would look into seeing what the program is like for next year. Will it be the same math teacher? Is there an honors math program? Are there tutors available if needed for students (not yours) that may hold back the class? Can you review the books they will use for next year?

I would not be happy with low test scores. However, I would really try to keep my kids in Catholic school, because that is important to us.

I can't believe the school said the scores are not important. I would want to have a meeting with the school administration to discuss this statement.

I wish you luck in your decision.

Pam

 

[Az Pirates]

My dd is in 7th grade. Her best friend just switched to parochial school this year. Her mother tried to get her a transfer to another public school nearby that is K-8, she made the decision when that did not come through, for much the same discipline reasons you stated.

I know the kids at our middle school definitely are testing the boundaries, seeing exactly what they can get away with - so a lot of time has to be focused on behavioral issues.

I do think I would be extremely concerned with her in such a small, advanced math class and still scoring so low.
I hate the whole teaching to the test mentality - but on the other hand, if there are concepts that the majority of kids that age know, you would think that a class with a 1 - 12 teacher/student ratio would be ahead of the norm rather than behind.

BTW, dd's best friend begged her to go to the parochial school too and we chose to keep her in the public middle school.

 

[DVCindy]

Thank you all for your thoughts and input !

I just returned from speaking with DD's teacher ... and I'm not sure if I feel better or worse !

She basically said "I have no idea what happened."

She did say that she did find out that the directions for the computation section were given incorrectly to the students in DD's homeroom (they apparently take the standardized tests in their homerooms, not in the room with the teacher that teaches the subject), so she may have gotten confused or filled out the answer sheet incorrectly. WHAT ???!!! Or maybe she skipped a section or her booklet pages were stuck together ???!!!

I, of course, requested that she be retested and she said they don't do that .

I asked to see a her score sheet so we can see the areas where she did not master the material ... and she didn't have it. Don't you think she should have had that available to show me ??
She said she will find it and call me tonight.

I don't feel she was properly prepared to meet with me ... and I am annoyed. She just kept repeating "I know she knows the material" and not to worry .. next year's placement would be in the same level since her teacher input would override the placement that they normally make based on the scores ... WHAT, I thought you told me the scores don't count for anything !!!!

I am annoyed to say the least. I also feel she was not 100% honest with me ... she seemed very nervous and unprepared for my questions. She kept repeating that there were only 2 questions in the computation section that her class had not covered yet ... I'm not convinced. What the heck do I make of this !!

I'm rambling again ! Thanks for letting me vent !!!


The only other option we would have for a different private school would be a few very, very expensive private schools. The other parochial schools are over 1/2 hour away. The expensive private schools are definately out of the question, however, because DH is losing his job in October . Honestly, we started to question whether it was even feasible to keep our DD's ( also have a DD in 2nd grade) in this school next year anyway due to the job situation. This whole issue has added another dimension to this decision.

wendyl - Her scores last year were in the 84th percentile and in 3rd grade (in public school )in the 90th.

DD knows about the situation and says she would rather go to the public school. But she's a kid, what does she know ??!!!
My mother is the Media Specialist in the school so I'm sure she is feeling comfortable about the change knowing my mother will be there. I also like that I will have someone keeping a "eye on her".

Does anyone know if I can demand that she be retested in a private school ... especially because they know an error was made in giving the directions ? ... or are they entitled to make up their own rules regarding standardized tests ?

Many thanks again for "listening" !!

Cindy

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Our parochial schools are ahead academically of our public schools here. However I choose public school for my kids.

Parochial cannot offer the arts and music which my kids love and totally excel at.
My 7th grader is playing in the band with 8th graders and my 1st grader has her 1st "art show" coming up. A project was selected from one of her many creations.
I am sure it is the 1st of many to come.

Can your dd handle the distractions and still excel? (my dd thinks the distractions are hilarious.)
That is something you need to think about.

Good Luck with your decision.

 

[peg2001]

The Educated Child by William Bennett. He has a lot to say about what makes a good school and how to decide if your child's school is doing their job.

Peggy

 

[wendyl]

Originally posted by DVCindy
Thank you all for your thoughts and input !

Iwendyl - Her scores last year were in the 84th percentile and in 3rd grade (in public school )in the 90th.



Does anyone know if I can demand that she be retested in a private school ... especially because they know an error was made in giving the directions ? ... or are they entitled to make up their own rules regarding standardized tests ?

Many thanks again for "listening" !!

Cindy

WOW--red flags for sure. Her math scores indicate a problem--and it doesn't sound like it has ANYTHING to do with your daughter's ability.

I just came from teaching in the private school arena, and the chances of a "retest"are slim to none. You never know though, but a meeting with the principal is in order. In my school, standardized tests were taken SOOO seriously that we were told we would be FIRED if we administered the tests incorrectly in any way (not reading the directions correctly, not monitoring, not timing properly, not maintaining a proper testing setting....). I'm having particular trouble with your teacher's recognition that the test was administered incorrectly--and doesn't seem to be taking that too seriously!!!!!

You should have been given a detailed statistical data sheet outlining your daughter's performance on EACH type of math question--thereby identifying what types of questions she missed. How were her scores reported to you?

What standardized test was it?

I'm so sorry--very frustrating.

 

[piratesmate]

I know money is a factor here, but you might want to consider having her re-tested at a Learning Center like Sylvan, etc - if you can't get the school to do it.

Also, I'd try talking to other parents to see if they were satisfied with the scores. I'd think if enough of you complained about the testing situation that they'd be more willing to re-think their stance about not re-testing. (When I taught in a private school, there was major concern about not losing students.)

Good luck with your decision!

 

[meandtheguys]

I know that I would be concerned, but there can be isues during testing. That is why some people are so against it. A child who is ill, upset, to hot, dehydrated, frustrated etc, can test low. If the instructions are not clear or another student is a problem.

If you like the school, independant testing such as SYlvan, might comfort you.

Good luck! It is hard being in charge of the world! (As we moms often are!)

 

[DVCindy]

wendyl -

They were given the TerraNova (also says CTBS Complete Battery under TerraNova).

We receive a Home Report which breaks down the results for Reading, Lauguage, and Math, composites for each, and a total score, all expressed in national percentiles.

On the back they identify area of strengths and weaknesses. In the area in which she received the 39, computation, it indicates no strengths and non-mastery in Fractions and Divide Whole Numbers.

It sounds like you are describing a data sheet detailing the test results similar to what the teacher SHOULD have had with her at the conference. I think that is what she is supposed to be calling me with tonight.

Thank you for your concern -

Cindy

 

[Deb & Bill]

Our son also goes to Catholic school, is in 5th grade and took the TerraNova CBT. The public schools take the Iowa Test. We were told that if a public school is using the Iowa Test, no other school in the state can use that same test. So last year (and the prior years) when our son was taking the Iowa test, he was actually taking the older version of the Iowa test (about 6 years old) and not the more recent version taken by the Public schools. Therefore, it is very difficult to compare test scores between public and private schools.

My son has at least 1-2 hours of homework every night. He even has some on weekends - mostly reading or catching up. He has always gotten A's or B's on his report cards for the last 6 years. He has taken Spanish in school as one of his subjects for the last four years (he's not fluent by any means, but he does recall some phrases and words in Spanish). He has had computer skills for the past three years. Next year they will again have an art program, plus they offer music lessons through the after school program.

His math this year has included fractions (all year), division (all year) - including dividing by double digit numbers and fractions. They have learned so much in Science and Social Studies (he had to memorize the Preamble to the Constitution for a test this week).

We haven't gotten his test scores back yet this year, but we should get them with the report cards.

Most of our students have no problem transferring to Public Middle schools for 6th grade and most are admitted to the Magnet programs. My son decided he liked the smaller private school atmosphere, plus most of his friends are staying here, so he won't be going to public school for middle school. He probably will continue on to the Catholic High School for 9th grade. Our Catholic HS is highly rated both academically and athletically.