Should we be disappointed at Obama?

[Uncle Remus]

I guess I'm still at a loss as to why American ideals of liberty 'n justice for all is subject to the approval of religious folks.

If anything is a lifestyle it's certainly religion, one does choose to be a Christian. I for one am not tolerant of religious beliefs that are contrary to freedom 'n equal treatment for all Americans regardless of color, sex, age, heritage or orientation. Since there are many religious leaders who support equal rights for gays and lesbians, I'm sure the religious have their own problems within their own community. I can wish their religious leaders well in attempting to reason with those who fail to treat others as they wish to be treated.

I just hope as a country we can move beyond religion as our guide since it is so contrary to fair and equal treatment of gays and lesbians. BUT I still can't understand why any of us has to tolerate religious views that restrict the freedoms that are part of what it is to be American.

 

[DVCajun]

Just because me or anyone else is opposed to Gay Marraige does NOT mean I/we support discrimination. There IS such a thing as personal moral veiws.

You don't seem to understand something. Not allowing gays to marry IS discriminatory. What you do or allow within your church community is your business, but it's not the church's place or right to determine the civil RIGHT of an American citizen to marry the person they love.

You call it a "moral view." You're entitled to that opinion as well. But again -- those religious "morals" have no place in the laws of this country.

I do believe you made a choice as to how you live. I DID. We all make choices.

I would think that an individual that had a gay brother would have a little more understanding about who he is. He didn't *choose* to be gay. No one *chooses* to be the one who gets picked on in school, passed over for promotions at work, called "worse than terrorists" by politicians, etc. etc.

It's simply amazing that you can write the above comments and in the same breath say you don't "support discrimination." Ask your brother how he feels about *that* and then perhaps you'll understand why the previous poster said he felt sorry for your brother. Sometimes we can't see what's right in front of us.

 

[shortbun]

....I don't often post over here (I'm an LGBT Boards lurker! ), but I do read many of these threads....but now that this thread has begun to discuss Melissa Etheridge's view on Pastor Warren, I really have to respond to this one.

I love Melissa Etheridge as much as the next LGBTQ person....but I'll respectfully have to beg to differ with her here....and, even more importantly, I really hope that LGBTQ folks will choose to do their OWN research on Pastor Warren and not read this one gay icon's personal view/experience and adopt it as their own----because, sadly, I think Melissa is being a bit myopic here. You can even read the responses to her column on huffingtonpost and see that many of the readers there aren't buying it either.

I, like many others, UNDERSTAND why Obama made this choice----but understanding and agreeing (or even ACCEPTING) it are very very different things. Make no mistake: PASTOR RICK WARREN IS NOT AN ALLY TO LGBTQ PEOPLE. He has publicly said that we are unnatural. He has publicly stated that he does and would counsel LGBTQ folks to turn to heterosexuality. He is a staunch supporter of "ex-gay" programs. He has stated that the official policy of his church is that any openly LGBTQ person who would not "turn from homosexuality" would be denied membership in his church.

I'm sorry, but no matter how many Melissa Etheridge CD's he might own, the man is not our friend and he is not our supporter---and this issue is not one of just the semantics of "marriage." One need only read direct quotes from him over the years on gay issues and gay identities to understand that. I believe my "favorite" Warren quote might be: "In looking at the hierarchy of evil, I would say homosexuality is not the worst sin." (Therein indicating that we, as LGBTQ people, are indeed EVIL....we're just not the MOST evil----gee, thanks.)

Rick Warren is very charismatic and he certainly sucked Melissa Etheridge
right into his web. Obama too. I for one and going to sit back -well, I already emailed Obama-and watch what happens. I'm ready to take to the streets, write letters, boycott; whatever the Gay, Lesbian, etc community deems necessary, I am down. Barack, consider yourself on notice. We, who elected you-walked neighborhoods for you, made countless phone calls, sent money-WE are watching.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Morals are religious based, and as such can stay with whomever touts whichever ones they please.

As for me and my house, we'll stick with ethics.

Homosexuality is as much a choice as is heterosexuality. So then? Care to share a story of coming out as straight, anyone?

 

[rpmdfw]

Morals are religious based, and as such can stay with whomever touts whichever ones they please.

As for me and my house, we'll stick with ethics.

Homosexuality is as much a choice as is heterosexuality. So then? Care to share a story of coming out as straight, anyone?

And as John Stewart so wisely pointed out: Religion is much more a "lifestyle choice" than being gay is.

 

[RickinNYC]

I personally know of alot of folks opposed to gay marriage simply due to personal and religious convictions.
That does not mean they are bigots or anything else. They are intitled to their opinions and beliefs.
I DO beleive Obama made the right choice concerning R. Warren.
Now that he is President he MUST move drastically to the center "right" or he will be doomed a 1 term president (See Carter).
And honestly, it is very difficult to find a "nationally" recognized Pastor that wouldnt be opposed to abortion or gay marriage.
So, i dont see what else Obama could do.
Note: I write this due to my brother being a gay man. I love him and support him.
As for me, i oppose gay marriage but i SUPPORT civil unions. My brother is in a civil union and actually has no plans for the "marriage" They have the benifits and see no point.
There is a HUGE difference between hate and a difference of an opinion.
I write this as a friend of the gay community. And, the love of Seth...My brother.

Just because someone is using their religion to support their bias does not give them special dispensation to be blatantly homophobic. Using the Bible as a shield is almost as bad as using it as a weapon.

As for your brother, sorry but he does NOT have the same benefit that marriage would entitle him. If he believes that, he is sadly mistaken.

 

[RickinNYC]

Certainly we arent comparing RACE to a lifestyle are we? It seems alot of your example was concerning inter racial marriage. That a whole differwent issue that IS a civil rights issue. Not a lifestyle issue.

Anyways, Everyone has an opinion concerning this issue.
In the end, I truly defend "states rights"
I think this issue will be here for a long time.
We have already see some states allow Gay marriage and others (Cal.) vote to not allow it. (that was a shocker) to be honest.
It was interesting to see just WHY Prop 8 passed. (It wasnt due to the White evangelical vote.) Yet, it WAS due to the minority evangelical vote.
Either way, Folks have their religious beliefs and no one can take that away, nor should they.
I may disagree with my brother on this topic but in the end we love each other and treat it like any other political issue.
But in the end, We would die for each other.
And, getting back to the question. Obama has to do what he has to do to get re elected. And that-
will require a move to the Center...a big move.
I have given my opinion as a brother of a gay man. I dont want to cause any issues so i have given my opinion and now no more.
Peace.

One is born a particular race much like one is born gay. So why not make the comparison?

 

[RickinNYC]

Tolerance is a two way street. For YOU to say you "feel sorry" for my brother is a low blow and inappropriate.
Just because me or anyone else is opposed to Gay Marraige does NOT mean I/we support discrimination. There IS such a thing as personal moral veiws.
We may disagree, and thats OK and a good thing in the Nation.
but you cant change the hearts and minds of people by being INtolerant yourself.
I DONT condone ANY form of any discrimination. I do believe you made a choice as to how you live. I DID. We all make choices.
In any case, We can disagree or agree on a given subject. that makes the world go around. but as a previous poster stated "we dont have to agree 100% or we are enimies. We can disagree and still be civil.
If anyone wants to P.M. me to continue debate. I dont wish to add anymore to this thread. Its just not the proper place or topic.

So you're saying that you typically homosexual feelings yet you chose to live life as a heterosexual? Please clarify.

 

[RickinNYC]

You don't seem to understand something. Not allowing gays to marry IS discriminatory. What you do or allow within your church community is your business, but it's not the church's place or right to determine the civil RIGHT of an American citizen to marry the person they love.

You call it a "moral view." You're entitled to that opinion as well. But again -- those religious "morals" have no place in the laws of this country.



I would think that an individual that had a gay brother would have a little more understanding about who he is. He didn't *choose* to be gay. No one *chooses* to be the one who gets picked on in school, passed over for promotions at work, called "worse than terrorists" by politicians, etc. etc.

It's simply amazing that you can write the above comments and in the same breath say you don't "support discrimination." Ask your brother how he feels about *that* and then perhaps you'll understand why the previous poster said he felt sorry for your brother. Sometimes we can't see what's right in front of us.

Well, we all know someone, or are someone, who's parents kicked them out and/or disowned them when they learned they child was gay.

 

[rpmdfw]

Well, we all know someone, or are someone, who's parents kicked them out and/or disowned them when they learned they child was gay.

I know too many where that was the case.

 

[RickinNYC]

I know too many where that was the case.

Clearly their lifestyle choice was more important to them than their parents, siblings and personal safety, so they deserved it.

 

[rpmdfw]

Clearly their lifestyle choice was more important to them than their parents, siblings and personal safety, so they deserved it.

No one deserves that. I've got one friend that was thrown out of the house at 16 years old. You can't tell me his parents truly loved him. You don't abandon the people you love.

I've got so many other friends whose parents won't talk to them since they came out. One was told "you're an embarassment, don't bother ever coming home again". The fact that most of these people are really wonderful, caring, giving people despite the example they got at home is a miracle as far as I can see.

 

[RickinNYC]

No one deserves that. I've got one friend that was thrown out of the house at 16 years old. You can't tell me his parents truly loved him. You don't abandon the people you love.

I've got so many other friends whose parents won't talk to them since they came out. One was told "you're an embarassment, don't bother ever coming home again". The fact that most of these people are really wonderful, caring, giving people despite the example they got at home is a miracle as far as I can see.

No, no. They do deserve that. Because they chose that lifestyle, they could have chosen something more acceptable, hence they deserve what's coming to them. They could have chosen to be straight, married and have 2.3 kids but they didn't.

 

[rpmdfw]

No, no. They do deserve that. Because they chose that lifestyle, they could have chosen something more acceptable, hence they deserve what's coming to them. They could have chosen to be straight, married and have 2.3 kids but they didn't.

2.3 kids!?!?!?!?

What'd they do with the other two thirds of that last kid?

 

[RickinNYC]

2.3 kids!?!?!?!?

What'd they do with the other two thirds of that last kid?

Cannibalism. The Other Lifestyle Choice.

 

[rpmdfw]

Cannibalism. The Other Lifestyle Choice.

That bites.

 

[RickinNYC]

That bites.

My name is not Wally. I will not parry with you sir.

 

[rpmdfw]

My name is not Wally. I will not parry with you sir.

 

[OrlandoMike]

My name is not Wally. I will not parry with you sir.

I think the Starbucks is wearing off! He was on a pretty good tear earlier!

It may be worth hanging out till after cocktail hour!

 

[RickinNYC]

I think the Starbucks is wearing off! He was on a pretty good tear earlier!

It may be worth hanging out till after cocktail hour!

Aren't you supposed to be in your car, headed to the mouse place, serving drinks to tourists?