Should They Pay for Their Rescue?

[freckles and boo]

Yeah, but I was looking for a "cottage" industry to make a killing. Oh well...

Sorry. Unless you have your own helicopter...

 

[pixie921]

According to this report, they're not planning to charge anyone. I think they should be charged. This happens every year. It's ridiculous. Especially if you consider the two sections I bolded below.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090209/ap_on_re_us/ice_floe_fishermen

PORT CLINTON, Ohio – Many of the 134 fishermen rescued from Lake Erie ice returned to the miles-long floe Sunday using rented air boats to retrieve left-behind snowmobiles, all-terrain vehicles and other equipment. A few ventured onto the risky ice to fish for walleye.

About 300 fishermen were stationed on stable ice not far from where the crack had opened Saturday, stranding the anglers about 1,000 yards from the Ohio shoreline.

"(The ice) is an honest 14 inches," veteran fisherman Pat Chrysler of Put-In-Bay told The (Cleveland) Plain Dealer in a telephone interview Sunday from South Bass Island. "I measured it with a Stanley tape measure, just to be accurate."

A Coast Guard helicopter surveyed how much abandoned equipment remained on the ice, but fishermen were responsible for recovering their own belongings, said Petty Officer William Mitchell, a Coast Guard spokesman.

"You'd have to be crazy to do that," he said of those who were fishing Sunday. "That's good to know that they're heeding the warnings, you know. I would definitely not recommend that at all, especially after what just happened. You know it's even warmer today."

Officials said some of the stranded anglers watched from solid ice while private contractors hauled all-terrain vehicles and other equipment off the ice.

A number of officials said the previous day's rescue went smoothly partly because agencies have trained together. But Coast Guard and local law enforcement officials said they would like to develop ways to stop people from ice fishing during dangerous conditions.

Many more people might have been stranded Saturday if veteran fishermen hadn't heeded weather warnings about warming temperatures and strong winds, fishing guide Pat Chrysler said.

Ottawa County Sheriff Bob Bratton called for authorities to reconsider when civil penalties are assessed. Under current policies, a fisherman's name is recorded the first time he's rescued. The second strike leads to an ice safety class, and the third can result in civil action and fines.

Bratton said he wants to respect ice fishing culture while finding a way to recoup the county's financial losses and step up regulation.

Bratton estimated the cost of the response at $20,000 but said the rescued anglers wouldn't have to cover it.

"We're not looking to send you a bill at this point," said Harold Stanton, the fire chief in Lucas County's Jerusalem Township. "We're not looking to arrest you."

One fisherman died Saturday of an apparent heart attack. He had fallen into the water while trying to find a route to land and collapsed after being pulled back to solid ice.

 

[MsAmerica]

I don't think they should be charged simply for the fact that the reason why we have helicopters and other emergency response teams is basically for events such as this.

Every year, our fire department has its hover craft out on the water doing practice drills. Why? Simple, people go out on the water and either go through the ice in the winter or fall over board for various reasons in the summer. The purpose of the hover craft in our town is for it to be used in such circumstances, that is why it was bought with TAX PAYER money in the first place.

Should citizens be charged every time they call the police or fire department, of course not. That is why they are there to begin with.

I think the point another poster made with rescue efforts during Katrina (or any natural disaster) is similar. Can you imagine the outcry if citizens were charged for the helicopter rescues during Katrina? Yet those citizens also knew that they shouldn't be were they were and for whatever reason, were.


Just my opinion,

MsA

 

[maymom96]

Should citizens be charged every time they call the police or fire department, of course not. That is why they are there to begin with.

Where I live, yes I have to pay if the fire department responds to my home or to my car accident. They will send me a bill that if I don't pay, is added on to my property taxes.

 

[yeartolate]

I think we have seen the results of that with watered down playgrounds and so many limitations that obesity is a problem in children. More government nanny-ism. Why pay taxes if you have to pay for services as well?

Can I ask what you consider watered down playgrounds?

The only difference I see is some areas having rubber matting and alot of wood chips instead of sand.

The play areas are prettier (wooden rather than the nasty looking metal). But the playgrounds have very similar items as when I was growing up. Slides, monkeybars, climbing structures, swings, turntables etc. Several of the parks my son went to when he was younger had ramps and such for the skaters, bikers, skateboarders.

Is there really that much difference in the playgrounds now? Ours are constantly filled. What I see as different is the moms hanging over the kids trying to shove a juice box and a snack in their mouth at the drop of a hat. What I do see different is that at a younger age we were allowed to go to the playground independently. So we went more often when I was younger, but I really see no decrease in major activity while they are there.

But I don't consider a rubber mat that might prevent a major injury a major deal. It is not required to have a closed head injury to have a successful childhood.

 

[goofy4tink]

Over the last month or so I have seen television coverage of a dog rescued from falling in an ice covered lake. A moose was rescued under similar circumstances. Horses as well. Helicopters have been called in. Sewers have been dug up to save kittens. Who do will bill in those circumstances? If these men were trespassing and had broken laws, then bill them. But they violated no laws except the laws of common sense.

I've seen the same footage. In the case of the dog, I think the owner should be fined. The moose? The kittens? We all pay for those I guess. But, those animals didn't fall into the ice covered ice due to their stupidity, nor the kittens in the sewers. They are animals, unable to make judgement calls.
Those fishermen knew the risks involved..they put out plywood sheets in order to cross that foot wide crack. They knew about the windy conditions. They rolled the dice and lost...plain and simple. Should they be fined? While I think it's a terrific idea, it isn't going to happen. Now, if there were to be signage up about 'bad conditions' or such, then yeah, they should be fined.

And that whole playground issue??? Please. You don't even see kids playing in their own yards anymore, let alone at a playground. Why?? Because mom and dad are so terrified that their child will get snatched right out from under their noses. Yes, kids get taken, but it's just not all that commonplace. Kids don't play like they used to...anywhere. Man, we used to disappear from sunup to sundown, played in groups all over the place. But not today. Activities are very structured. No room for imagination. No room for just running around, being silly. That's why we have obesity..that and the constant stuffing of food into our kids. I have never seen so many parents asking their children 'Are you hungry sweetie? Do you need a snack and some juice?' Believe me, kids let you know when they're hungry. It's not a bad thing for them to go for 5 hrs without something put into their mouths.

 

[TerriP]

Living in Michigan, we hear these stories every single spring. It is irritating to no end that my tax dollars are spent rescuing these idiots every year. I jokingly told DH last night that they should just leave them out there to drown...and save the gene pool from their stupidity. Do I mean that literally...no. But good LORD I get tired of paying for these morons. I would have NO problem with a "fish at your own risk" blanket policy with zero rescue possibilities.

You want to go out on ice with open water nearby when its FIFTY degrees?????? Have fun...let us know if you come back.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

The day we refuse to rescue people in danger is the day we quit the civilized nation club.

 

[maymom96]

Living in Michigan, we hear these stories every single spring. It is irritating to no end that my tax dollars are spent rescuing these idiots every year.:

Especially when Michigan is in such a sad state financially. We can't afford to be rescuing people who are too stupid to realize that 50 degree temps + cracks in the ice = a dangerous situation.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

Isn't abstracting people from the consequences of their stupidity a fair amount of government playing nanny? Perhaps they should collect a fee from the "victims" and put it toward school programs teaching common sense and physics.

 

[declansdad]

The day we refuse to rescue people in danger is the day we quit the civilized nation club.

No one refused to rescue them and no one is saying don't rescue them if they can't pay.


In this case these fisherman knowingly took a risk they knew would put them in a dangerous situation. This is also not the first time this has happened (It seeems to happen once a year on the Great Lakes). Given these facts, they should have to pay for anything beyond an ordinary rescue.

 

[NotUrsula]

I think that there should be some level of reimbursement paid. I don't know if they should have to pay for the entire thing, if what we are trying to do is deterrence.

Yes, we do pay for rescue squadrons to exist, and depend upon them. However, I look at these things as a limited resource for last resort -- there are not many of them, and if they are busy rescuing adults who decided to take a calculated risk, then they might not be available for the mom with kids who spun out on ice and ended up in a ravine.

My personal view is that if you risk your life FOR SPORT, then you need to pay at least part of the expense if someone else has to save that life for you. We all have reasons why we take risks, and some of us might not think they are adequate (like riding out a hurricane because you want to guard against looters), but the one thing that I think most people would agree is over the line foolish is doing it for sport.