Should the vet have warned me?

[MickeyMouseGal]

Very good insight! Thank you for sharing So sorry to hijack the thread, but I have a question for you MickeyMouseGal... our vet determined that because our cat had indeed been FVAC-positive, the risk of vaccinating her in the future is too risky based on studies that were done and the very strong chance of recurrence....

Now, in Molly's case, she had the reactive-lump shortly after being vaccinated @ 4 months old. Our vet chose to do the same with her as with Anastasia because she did have a rare side-effect. I know being an indoor cat is not fool-proof for rabies (like you mentioned, bats...), but for our vet, she will continue to offer them care w/o the vaccine so long as they are indoor cats.

Ok-so now the question, has your practice ever re-vaccinated a pet that had the benign reaction only to have them actually end up with FVAC after a subsequent vaccination? I'm just curious since Molly is barely a year old and I do hate not having her vaccinated any more at such a young age where Anastasia was 8 when she developed the cancer..... BUT I can't risk raising Molly's chances of getting FVAC....

Thanks so much in advance! TAKitty.... thinking of you and your cat!!! Hoping it's just a benign reaction!!!!

I have only seen a handfull of fibrosarcoma cats, and I can't remember if any of them had previously had local rabies reactions. Sorry. But considering your history, I would recommend having a titer drawn for that cat next year. If she does not have a protective titer, I would recommend she be given the vaccine in her lower leg. From my own personal experience, one of my cats had the local reaction as a kitten (it seems to be more common with their first rabies vaccine) and has had subsequent rabies vaccines without any problems. She has even been given the three year vaccine, but I always put it in her leg.

 

[Aimeedyan]

So, can you do the titer for rabies? I would rather do that if it's an option. I don't do the other vaccines as my cats are inside. They all got exposed to calicivirus when the new kittens came in(the kittens HAD been vaccinated) and so that vaccine would not help at this point anyway.

Marsha

I have never heard of a rabies titer, but they may exist. The rabies vaccine has been shown to last 7 years but the law in my area is 3, so we give it every 3 years.


OP - this is a great source of information on vaccines, but take note it refers to TX so some things may be different depending upon your region. This page speaks to the risk of cancer due to vaccines: http://www.critteradvocacy.org/Feline Recommendations.htm

These are recommendations for cats: http://www.critteradvocacy.org/Feline Vaccination Guidlines.htm

 

[Planogirl]

I'm reading that the incidence of cancer in cats who have received the three year vaccine is far higher than those who receive the one year. We have never been offered the option of a three year vaccine and I always wondered why. Local law required a vaccine each year without exceptions as far as I know.

I have turned down vaccinations for any other diseases for many of our cats. Which other vaccines seem to cause these problems?

 

[DMRick]

I'm reading that the incidence of cancer in cats who have received the three year vaccine is far higher than those who receive the one year. We have never been offered the option of a three year vaccine and I always wondered why. Local law required a vaccine each year without exceptions as far as I know.

I have turned down vaccinations for any other diseases for many of our cats. Which other vaccines seem to cause these problems?

The one year and the three year is the same vaccine. The three year is a booster and it is found to last longer if the cat has an initial one a year earlier.

As for finding out if they do rabies titres, I would suggest you get in touch with my old boss, Dr Jean Dodds in CA (you can goodle her). She does titres and would be able to answer you. I beleive she has a study going on right now. She's also the smartest vet on vaccination protocal I know of. I've been out of work as an animal health tech for too many years to give a useful answer.

Many vets in our area now vaccinate in the leg, because of this very reason. When I was working, we never even thought to put this problem with a rabies vacc, and now I'm hearing it more and more volunteering for a rescue organization. I have read (and I'm copying from it) in one of the reports, when vaccinating your dog for rabies, ask for a vaccine that doesn't have mercury or thimerosal in it (Imrab makes this kind of vaccine).

I'm sorry this has happened to you.

 

[kacaju]

I used to work for a vet and one year, I swear we got a bad batch of vaccines. My cat, a co workers cat and few patients and our hospital cat all got cancer form the vaccines. I don't remember if it was rabies or the distemper shot. I do remember my Billy got a lump at his neck and Elden, the hospital cat got it on his back leg. Billy didn't fair well, Elden got so sick from the first and only round of chemo he got that he never had any more treatment. I took Elden home because we thought he wouldn't last long and he lived for 10 years!! My husband always called him a short timer!! He ended up dying from diabetes. His cancer was a little different then the fibrosarcoma, I can't recall what it was other then it was suppose to be worse then that.
WOW, I had actually forgotten about all this....

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

I have never heard of a rabies titer, but they may exist. The rabies vaccine has been shown to last 7 years but the law in my area is 3, so we give it every 3 years.


OP - this is a great source of information on vaccines, but take note it refers to TX so some things may be different depending upon your region. This page speaks to the risk of cancer due to vaccines: http://www.critteradvocacy.org/Feline Recommendations.htm

These are recommendations for cats: http://www.critteradvocacy.org/Feline Vaccination Guidlines.htm

Rabies titers do exist, but can be expensive and some cats need sedation in order to collect enough blood for the test. It's not three drops as needed for a feline leukemia/FIV test, but rather several tubes of blood. We recently sent a cat and dog to England with their owners and had to draw for this test, the dog was ok, but the cat needed some sedation.

Rabies vaccines can last longer than what is on the bottle, but every animal is different. Some may only be protected a few months past the three years while others may go several years beyond.

I would take that website with a grain of salt. I suspect they lean a bit towards activism.

 

[Mad4Mickey]

I have been at my clinic for 10 years and really all the rabies we give have always been the 3 yr BUT the state required for them to have it once a year because well.... Texas is a "rabies" state"

Did you know that most Vets will not give shots to older cats and dogs anyway . My own cat has not had a rabies in about 6 years . She is 16 and just fine and yes she does go outside. Granted never really off the porch but we live on a lake and I am not worried

 

[torinsmom]

I was told that there is research showing the 3 year has a much higher incidence of the injection site sarcoma because of the adjuvant(sp?) used in the 3 year vaccine. No adjuvant is used in the 1 year. For now, I will stick with the one year for my cats. With dogs I think the 3 year is just as safe. Our $5 rabies clinic offers both the 1 year and 3 year, so it isn't a lot of extra money for me to do it every year.

Marsha

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

I was told that there is research showing the 3 year has a much higher incidence of the injection site sarcoma because of the adjuvant(sp?) used in the 3 year vaccine. No adjuvant is used in the 1 year. For now, I will stick with the one year for my cats. With dogs I think the 3 year is just as safe. Our $5 rabies clinic offers both the 1 year and 3 year, so it isn't a lot of extra money for me to do it every year.

Marsha

Actually, one year rabies vaccines contain adjuvant as well, just not as much. The only rabies vaccine that does not is Merial's Purevax, which is much more expensive than traditional vaccines.

 

[Aimeedyan]

I would take that website with a grain of salt. I suspect they lean a bit towards activism.

My vet is a big supporter of their work in vaccination education (the vet that publishes that website) so I have no reason to take it with a grain of salt.

I suspect they lean a bit towards owner education and protecting animals against unnecessary drugs

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

My vet is a big supporter of their work in vaccination education (the vet that publishes that website) so I have no reason to take it with a grain of salt.

I suspect they lean a bit towards owner education and protecting animals against unnecessary drugs

It has some good information, but some of their recommendations are too broad and can only be implimented in a 'best case' scenario.

I base my medical recommendations to my patients on my eleven years of experience and by following the AVMA guidelines.

 

[Aimeedyan]

It has some good information, but some of their recommendations are too broad and can only be implimented in a 'best case' scenario.

I base my medical recommendations to my patients on my eleven years of experience and by following the AVMA guidelines.

My assumption is that any good dog/cat owner will seek the advice of their vet concerning their animal and make a decision based on that, in combination with research they have done on their own. Just as I do with my own health. I have been lucky in that I have always found vets and physicians that work with me in making decisions for my animals, or myself, and make sure I understand everything and am comfortable with them. Since I can't exactly run out and buy medication for them or myself, and need to work with a doctor on those things, the findings and recommendations on that particular website are simply something for owners to learn about and them visit with their vet about. So far, my vet has agreed with their findings when it comes to my animals.

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

I encourage my clients to ask questions and often spend a good deal of time explaining vaccines and their related risks to my clients. Do some vets cookie-cutter their vaccine protocols? Unfortunately, yes. But, as the AVMA recommends:

Vaccination is a medical procedure, and customized vaccination protocols should be developed for individual patients. No vaccine should be administered until the medical importance and zoonotic potential of the infectious agent, the patient's risk of exposure, and the germane legal requirements have been considered.

And this is how I practice. Vaccines such as Bordetella, Leptospirosis, Feline Leukemia, etc. are not required for all animals.
Non-adjuvanted vaccines (the only recommended vaccine on the previously mentioned website) would be wonderful to give to all cats, but it would also more than double the cost of a cat's annual appointment. I have owners who will refuse treatment for fleas and worms. If we were to double the price of annual appointments, these cats will then be unprotected as well as breaking the law.

 

[Aimeedyan]

I encourage my clients to ask questions and often spend a good deal of time explaining vaccines and their related risks to my clients. Do some vets cookie-cutter their vaccine protocols? Unfortunately, yes. But, as the AVMA recommends: And this is how I practice. Vaccines such as Bordetella, Leptospirosis, Feline Leukemia, etc. are not required for all animals.
Non-adjuvanted vaccines (the only recommended vaccine on the previously mentioned website) would be wonderful to give to all cats, but it would also more than double the cost of a cat's annual appointment. I have owners who will refuse treatment for fleas and worms. If we were to double the price of annual appointments, these cats will then be unprotected as well as breaking the law.

I agree, some owners are unwilling or unable to do what I might do for mine. My vet even does low cost mobile vaccines in other parts of the city one weekend a month. She gives combination boosters at those events. Now, she will tell me that dogs don't need XX but it'll be in that combo booster that she gives. I asked her about it, actually, because it surprised me that she did that given her views on vaccines. She told me what you just said - she'd rather give unnecessary vaccines than let the animals go without any vaccines at all, and some onwers are unwilling to pay extra for the single vaccine, titer, or a vet visit to talk about what vaccines would be needed and what wouldn't. They would rather pull into a mobile clinic once a year and pay the $20 for a booster. Makes sense to me (now).

I like animals more than I like most people but I could never ever work with animal & medical care. I simply don't have the patience to deal with owners like the ones you mentioned (who refuse treatment for worms and fleas). Kudos to anyone that can.

 

[orlandothebeagle]

All very intersting post. In the uk, we have cut back on giving every vacc every year, we also change the injection site every year.