Should guns get banned?

[Mach]

I'm with wvrevy - there is no need for handguns at all. They should be banned from being sold or manufactured except for those required to carry one like police. I have no problems with hunting rifles, but I cannot fathom people owning a handgun and would not let a child of mine go play at a house where a handgun is present.

~Amanda

What makes you think they are going to tell you the truth?

 

[Mach]

Do you think that the guns just magically appear ? They were originally purchased legally, then either sold illegally or stolen. If the gun wasn't there to begin with, it would never reach the black market.

And again, I would simply point out that this has worked in other countries. Granted, we have the problem to a much greater degree, but that doesn't mean the solution will not work. It may not be as easy to implement, but there is no reason to believe that it would fail.

Drugs are illegal in the US. They are smuggled in on an hourlt basis in huge volumes. What makes you think the same thing won't happen with guns?

 

[dcentity2000]

Drugs are illegal in the US. They are smuggled in on an hourlt basis in huge volumes. What makes you think the same thing won't happen with guns?

That, again, is purely a matter for the police.

Perfect police = perfect enforcement.

Good police = good enforcement.

Etc.



Rich::

 

[Mach]

Thanks for completely missing the point, as is becoming the norm. I was making the point that gun ownership should be illegal in a civilized society,

If you ever have your home broken into at 3 Am and your family threatened by scum looking to do harm, and it takes the police 5 or 10 minutes to show up, maybe you will decide to take personal responsibility for your family's safety instead of always relying on someone else to come to the rescue.

I think gun ownership for personal protection is a matter of personal responibility, are you going to rely on someone else, or are you going to accept the responsibility to protect your family. Police can not prevent crime, if they could prevent crime, non of this would be an issue. Police get involved after the crime is commited, they find the bad guy, they don't keep the bad guy from hurting your family, only you can. Gun ownership is a huge repsonsibility. If someone is prone to rage, depression or irrational behavior, then they should think twice before owning a firearm.

I am surprised at how in tune you are to protecting your children at other peoples homes, and you should be, and yet at the same time you deligate that protection in the most extreme and dire circumstances (home intrusions) to other people that can't be in your home to protect your children if the situation ever happens to you.

Children are stolen from their bedrooms in the middle of the night. Sex offenders live in your neighborhood. People have their homes invaded while they are sleeping in your town. And for some reason you prefer to have your children be defenseless if any of these situations happen to you.

Read "In the Gravest extreme" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0936279001/104-9622287-1111121?v=glance

Take a firearms safety course , listen to a police scanner for your town and then decide if you think all handguns should be banned. the handgun is the only means you have to protect your children from people intent on doing them harm. The police will get there after it's all over. Just like columbine. If some of the teachers had weapons, some innocent lives would have been saved. Banning all hand guns in the US, would be like banning illegal drugs, they are still on every street corner in use by criminals.

Maybe I can't change your mind.

 

[Mach]

That, again, is purely a matter for the police.

Perfect police = perfect enforcement.

Good police = good enforcement.

Etc.



Rich::

Thats a pipe dream!

The police will never be able to stop people from doing illegal drugs and the crime the drug users commit to support the habit or any other crime. Parents on the other hand can bring up kids to be responsible children and responsible adults.

Expecting cops to be everywhere all the time, especially in a free society, to prevent people from doing any crime is an imaginary dream and a cop out ( pun intended ) from being personally responsible.

 

[Mach]

But isn't owning a handgun to begin with based on fear?

Nope, exactly the oppposite. It is a choice to accept personal responsibilty for your family's safety and protection instead on irrationally relying on someone ( the police) that isn't going to be at the scene of the crime until after it's all over. If you can't be responsible for your own protection then who do you expect to be responsible for it? You have to educate yourself and take safety and practical shooting courses.

Once you realise the police show up to clean up the mess, you will realise you must take responsibility to protect yourself and your family. Do you need protection to stop an attack on your family at 3 am. you won't know until the unthinkable happens, then it's too late. The people that are afraid of handguns and afraid to accept respnsibility for their own protection are the people making decisions based on fear.

 

[JimB.]

That, again, is purely a matter for the police

But I am sure that even in Jolly Ole England, the police, as they do pretty much anywhere else, spend the vast majority of their time attempting to SOLVE crime, not PREVENT crime.

And no, contrary to your sarcstic witticism, the police forces in the US are, by and large, not "rubbish"

I was making the point that gun ownership should be illegal in a civilized society,

And I respectfully disagree. In a civilized society, there should be limits on innapropriate behavior. If a gun is MIS-used, the user should be help accountable, as should those that kill with knives, sticks, cars, drugs and pillows.

A civilized society (once again IMHO) should respect the individual, their wishes, their lifestyles. If I want to own a gun, be it a pistol, rifle or shotgun, a "civilized society" should have no problem with that AS LONG AS IT IS NOT USED INAPPROPRIATLY.

 

[jen_uk]

Ummm..... No. Having lived in both St. Louis and now Chicago, I can surely tell you that there are NUMEROUS gun-related crimes out there that don't even make the morning news let alone "National News."
.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying, I was talking about Portsmouth which is in the south of the UK, not gun crime in the USA!

 

[dcentity2000]

Thats a pipe dream!

Perhaps, then, this is the issue. A theoretical ban on guns would be good if it were enforced, making the matter of police power fresh relevant.



Rich::

 

[Mach]

Perhaps, then, this is the issue. A theoretical ban on guns would be good if it were enforced, making the matter of police power fresh relevant.



Rich::

And failing to accept personal responsibility for your own safety against the criminal element, which last I looked ( about 5 minutes ago ) has skyrocketed in the UK since the law abiding citizen had his guns banned.

Yep, lets put a cop in every business and every home and every school, 24 hrs per day everyday of the year.


Nope not for me. I prefer the second amendment, which along with the other 9 amendments in the Bill Of Rights spells out an individual right. I am responsible for me, I am responsible for my protection and and I'm responsible for my actions.

 

[dcentity2000]

And failing to accept personal responsibility for your own safety against the criminal element, which last I looked ( about 5 minutes ago ) has skyrocketed in the UK since the law abiding citizen had his guns banned.

Yep, lets put a cop in every business and every home and every school, 24 hrs per day everyday of the year.


Nope not for me. I prefer the second amendment, which along with the other 9 amendments in the Bill Of Rights spells out an individual right. I am responsible for me, I am responsible for my protection and and I'm responsible for my actions.

I beg your pardon?

No, I don't beg, I take your pardon without asking

I know our police are rubbish, it's an election issue - at any one time there are THREE, only THREE officers on patrol in the Brighton area (Brighton being a city).

THAT is rubbish and why our gun ban is not being enforced as well as it once was.

And...

The second ammendment requires that you be a member of an organised militia.



Rich::

 

[Mach]

And...

The second ammendment requires that you be a member of an organised militia.

Rich::

I think you need to brush up some on our American History!

 

[dcentity2000]

I think you need to brush up some on our American History!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

And I'm not even American



Rich::

 

[Mach]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

And I'm not even American



Rich::

Maybe you should reread the entire BILL OF RIGHTS in context, I know there was a reason for the independence, now I know why

 

[dcentity2000]

Each statute stands on it's own by definition - unless you are suggesting that the second ammendment has been impliedly repealed?

If not I suggest you abide by it to the letter, or we'll invade with our mighty army of 5 men with our amazing collapsable SA80s!



Rich::

 

[AllyandJack]

I think people should be able to legally own guns. That's just my opinion....if the criminals have them, people should be able to own them legally.

But, I never bought into the 2nd Amendment argument.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/

 

[chadfromdallas]

I think people should be able to legally own guns. That's just my opinion....if the criminals have them, people should be able to own them legally.[/url]

Do you think the same about drugs?

 

[dcentity2000]

But, I never bought into the 2nd Amendment argument.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/

My bad...

It's a tricky one, isn't it?



Rich::

 

[AllyandJack]

Do you think the same about drugs?

Sometimes I do. Sometimes I think there are bigger fish to fry and we don't seem to have the resources to deal with everything.

 

[dcentity2000]

Sometimes I do. Sometimes I think there are bigger fish to fry and we don't seem to have the resources to deal with everything.

A topic for another debate there, and a very fierce debate at that methinks. Good point well made, AllyandJack.



Rich::