Should ex help out with these expenses?

[Minnie_me]

I've been divorced for 6 years, and getting money out of my ex is like pulling teeth. The way he gets paid, he can't have child support automatically taken out of his check. He has to remember to put the money into my account. And in 6 years, he has remembered ONCE. Every other time, he has "forgotten" and I have had to text him to remind him. Annoying.

Our divorce agreement states that, on top of child support, he is to pay half of expenses that go above and beyond the basic things that child support covers, *at his discretion*. I don't know why I agreed to that wording!! But, through the years, I have asked him to pay half of big things like school trips (not field trips, more like out-of-state trips), summer camps, back-to-school supplies, etc. He's usually been pretty good about it.

But right now, we're at odds. Our daughters are 18 and 15 now. The 18-year old works full time this summer (she just finished her freshman year of college), but does not drive. We live in a rural area, and summer jobs are scarce; this job is 16 miles away. So I'm putting 64 miles on my car every day, taking her to and from work. DD15 is in a musical theatre program in the city near us, 24 miles away. So every day, I'm putting an additional 96 miles on my car taking her back and forth. And, of course, the times don't coincide AT ALL, so I can NEVER combine the trips!! (DD18 works 1-9, DD15's program is 8-5)

When I did the math, and realized how much I'm driving, and how much I'm spending on gas, I sent Ex a text asking him to chip in.

He flat out refused. He told me that, because I'm a teacher, I have nothing else to do all summer but drive them to their jobs/activities. I agreed, lol, but reminded him that it's MONEY I need, not time (or help with the driving). He hasn't responded. Am I out of line, asking for this???

(And just because I know these questions will arise: there is no public transportation out here. There is no one that either girl can carpool with. We tried, but all of the people at DD18's job live in the opposite direction, and the kids at DD15's program live in the suburbs and would have to drive an extra 15 minutes to bring her home.)

 

[gwynne]

I dunno. I'd probably be more concerned about making sure any agreements about sharing college costs were worked out and adhered to. I get what you are saying, but I think the big thing is education.
I wouldn't like the "at his discretion" either, but it sounds like it unfortunately gives him a lot of options to say no. And it's not at all nice, of course.

 

[CF'er]

What do you consider child support to cover that this would be above and beyond?

 

[mombrontrent]

In my opinion I think your 18 year old daughter should get her licence and drive herself or she should be giving you gas money since she's an adult and working full time. My son is 16, soon to be 17 and while we did give him our old car he is responsible for part of insurance costs and all gas money for his car. He makes his friends pay him money for gas when they go out together or he drives them somewhere to help with the cost so I see no reason why your adult daughter who is working full time can't chip in.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

...

But right now, we're at odds. Our daughters are 18 and 15 now. The 18-year old works full time this summer (she just finished her freshman year of college), but does not drive. We live in a rural area, and summer jobs are scarce; this job is 16 miles away. So I'm putting 64 miles on my car every day, taking her to and from work. DD15 is in a musical theatre program in the city near us, 24 miles away. So every day, I'm putting an additional 96 miles on my car taking her back and forth. And, of course, the times don't coincide AT ALL, so I can NEVER combine the trips!! (DD18 works 1-9, DD15's program is 8-5)

When I did the math, and realized how much I'm driving, and how much I'm spending on gas, I sent Ex a text asking him to chip in.

He flat out refused. He told me that, because I'm a teacher, I have nothing else to do all summer but drive them to their jobs/activities. I agreed, lol, but reminded him that it's MONEY I need, not time (or help with the driving). He hasn't responded. Am I out of line, asking for this???

(And just because I know these questions will arise: there is no public transportation out here. There is no one that either girl can carpool with. We tried, but all of the people at DD18's job live in the opposite direction, and the kids at DD15's program live in the suburbs and would have to drive an extra 15 minutes to bring her home.)

Regarding the bolded: It seems like the 18 year old should start driving. I mean, she's an adult now. Driving to work or doctor's appointments (or anywhere else she needs to go) should be on her.

Maybe Dad could help with driver's classes for her? Then with the purchase of a car?

 

[mom2rtk]

Maybe you should see if he would pay part of the cost for a car for your older daughter. He might be more amenable since he won't see it as paying some of your expenses.

 

[pryncess527]

I'd be asking ex-H if he wanted to chip in to buy her a car . . .

 

[NHdisneylover]

On the one hand, yeah, I can see where he ought to be helping with all of this stuff and it all seems like reasonable things for your kids to be doing. On the other hand, how much is he getting to participate in the decision making process? I can understand a parent not wanting to pay for "extras" that they do not see as reasonable, especially for older children who do not need daycare, etc.

Would he have okayed the theatre program had he been consulted and told he'd be paying that much towards gas?
How about the older DD's work? Would he have preferd to chip in towards a used car for her? Or to require that she reimburse you for gas out of her wages?

Personally, I would have considered "above and beyond" to be things more along the lines of braces, or needed tutoring, etc. Fun optional items like school trips or theatre camps I would think should be discussed and approved ahead of time by both parents if both are expected to chip in the cost

 

[MariMama]

Did he have any say if either of the girls participate in these optional activities? If no, then no, he doesn't owe you anything. The 18 year old should be paying you gas money to be her taxi.

 

[Minnie_me]

What do you consider child support to cover that this would be above and beyond?

According to the attorneys, child support covers the basic necessities: food, clothing, shelter.

 

[ELSA711]

Maybe with the younger one, but the 18yr old has a job and should be paying you gas money if she doesn't have her license. IMO

 

[sk!mom]

First, I don't know why child support couldn't be automatically taken from his pay. That is the standard in my state. Just being chronically late would be enough for me to go back and ask for auto payment.

If your DD18 is working full-time, she should be picking up the gas cost for her commute.

As far as the 15 year old, did he help pay for the program? Did he get any input on whether she should do it? If he wanted her to do the program, then he should help pay. If he was left out of the decision, then it doesn't really seem fair to ask him to pay now.

How long has it been since your child support amount was adjusted? I don't like being nickel and dimed and wouldn't want to do it to someone else. If the child support is insufficient and the wording doesn't work, then go back to court for adjustments.

 

[Minnie_me]

To answer some questions:

Yes, he was fully aware of the girls participating in these jobs/activities, and he paid 1/3 of the cost of the musical theatre program. (FWIW, the 15-year old has a job as well, but it's right in town, so I don't mind the 5 minute drive for her) Gas costs were not discussed at the time, because I guess I didn't really think about the fact that I'd be driving 160 miles a day!!

The 18-year old does not have a driver's license, and is not ready to get one. I'm not going to go into all of that now (that's a whole 'nother thread, and I really don't want to discuss it, so please don't!), but it's not going to happen this summer. We have friends who have purchased cars for their college kids, or helped them with cars and car expenses. Ex has made it VERY CLEAR that he will not help pay any extra expenses related to DD having her own car. DD is working full-time to help pay for COLLEGE, not a car. I never thought about asking her for gas money, but I know she would give it to me if I did.

Someone mentioned "above and beyond" includes braces ---- well, he refused to pay a penny toward the $4,000 I paid for DD15's braces. He felt that she didn't need them, because it was to fix a "cross-bite", and it wasn't anything noticeable like an overbite or crooked teeth. And I paid a tutor $20 an hour (which I know is very reasonable) for 2 years to get DD through Algebra 1 and 2, and he refused to pay a penny toward that.

 

[nkereina]

My initial thought was to pick and choose your battles with him. This may not be one I'd push, because as PPs mentioned, larger expenses will arise like college and cars and weddings. This is kind of a questionable one, IMO, since any money he'd give is only indirectly going to the girls. Maybe a compromise would be asking him to pick up or drop off one (or both) of the girls so you don't have to do all the runs? I'd offer that as a compromise if it's feasible, and say it's in lieu of sending money.

 

[Minnie_me]

First, I don't know why child support couldn't be automatically taken from his pay. That is the standard in my state. Just being chronically late would be enough for me to go back and ask for auto payment.

How long has it been since your child support amount was adjusted? I don't like being nickel and dimed and wouldn't want to do it to someone else. If the child support is insufficient and the wording doesn't work, then go back to court for adjustments.

It's hard to explain. Most people get paid in regular intervals, so the amount of child support is calculated and split among those checks. He does not get paid in regular intervals. Some months, he'll get 1 check, some months he'll get 5. It's a strange business, and I don't really ask him for details, as long as I get my money.

The child support that I receive is sufficient to cover the basics. But I'm putting 800 miles a week on my car, and that's WAY over normal.

 

[MariMama]

To answer some questions:

Yes, he was fully aware of the girls participating in these jobs/activities. (FWIW, the 15-year old has a job as well, but it's right in town, so I don't mind the 5 minute drive for her) Gas costs were not discussed at the time, because I guess I didn't really think about the fact that I'd be driving 160 miles a day!!

The 18-year old does not have a driver's license, and is not ready to get one. I'm not going to go into all of that now (that's a whole 'nother thread, and I really don't want to discuss it, so please don't!), but it's not going to happen this summer. We have friends who have purchased cars for their college kids, or helped them with cars and car expenses. Ex has made it VERY CLEAR that he will not help pay any extra expenses related to DD having her own car. DD is working full-time to help pay for COLLEGE, not a car. I never thought about asking her for gas money, but I know she would give it to me if I did.

Someone mentioned "above and beyond" includes braces ---- well, he refused to pay a penny toward the $4,000 I paid for DD15's braces. He felt that she didn't need them, because it was to fix a "cross-bite", and it wasn't anything noticeable like an overbite or crooked teeth. And I paid a tutor $20 an hour (which I know is very reasonable) for 2 years to get DD through Algebra 1 and 2, and he refused to pay a penny toward that.

Being aware and part of the decision-making process are two different things.

 

[pryncess527]

To answer some questions:

Yes, he was fully aware of the girls participating in these jobs/activities, and he paid 1/3 of the cost of the musical theatre program. (FWIW, the 15-year old has a job as well, but it's right in town, so I don't mind the 5 minute drive for her) Gas costs were not discussed at the time, because I guess I didn't really think about the fact that I'd be driving 160 miles a day!!

The 18-year old does not have a driver's license, and is not ready to get one. I'm not going to go into all of that now (that's a whole 'nother thread, and I really don't want to discuss it, so please don't!), but it's not going to happen this summer. We have friends who have purchased cars for their college kids, or helped them with cars and car expenses. Ex has made it VERY CLEAR that he will not help pay any extra expenses related to DD having her own car. DD is working full-time to help pay for COLLEGE, not a car. I never thought about asking her for gas money, but I know she would give it to me if I did.

Someone mentioned "above and beyond" includes braces ---- well, he refused to pay a penny toward the $4,000 I paid for DD15's braces. He felt that she didn't need them, because it was to fix a "cross-bite", and it wasn't anything noticeable like an overbite or crooked teeth. And I paid a tutor $20 an hour (which I know is very reasonable) for 2 years to get DD through Algebra 1 and 2, and he refused to pay a penny toward that.

Then I kind of would not expect him to be willing to pay extra expenses related to her not having her own car either . . . like your higher gas costs.

 

[gwynne]

It's hard to explain. Most people get paid in regular intervals, so the amount of child support is calculated and split among those checks. He does not get paid in regular intervals. Some months, he'll get 1 check, some months he'll get 5. It's a strange business, and I don't really ask him for details, as long as I get my money.

The child support that I receive is sufficient to cover the basics. But I'm putting 800 miles a week on my car, and that's WAY over normal.

It's getting closer to August. I don't see it really being worth changes now for this year. (Unless things are really dire.)
It may be that you'll need to carefully consider (with the girls) what they do next summer. I don't think your ex is going to change and become easier going, based on what you've posted.

 

[indygirl99]

Nope The theater program is optional and the 18 year old is an adult who can drive so not basic needs and therefore covered under "at his discretion".

 

[Minnie_me]

Nope The theater program is optional and the 18 year old is an adult who can drive so not basic needs and therefore covered under "at his discretion".

The 18-year old cannot drive, and even though she is an "adult", she's still a child who lives at home when she's not in college. Child support doesn't end until she's 21.