Seriously backwards thinking....

[Magpie]

I agree it used to be better, but it started going downhill long before ACA. If we had a system that allowed all Americans access to good insurance, the ACA would have never been tried.

I can't actually think of a time when it was better for everyone (versus better for some) in the US...

If I go back to the 70's, I'm thinking of the stories my mum told me about the very scary public hospitals (and why she wouldn't give birth in the Catholic one).

Further back than that, and we're looking at segregated care for blacks and whites. And testing/experimentation done without people's consent.

I'm not sure when the Golden Age of American Health Care would have been.

 

[TeresaBelle]

It is not useless. Imagine getting hit with a major injury or illness and your responsible for only $20,000 instead of $1M or $2M. That's the real point of insurance. To protect you from major financial responsibility in case of something catastrophic. It's not there to pay for every little thing.

If she truly can't afford it then when one of her children has an abnormal test that needs further investigation, she wouldn't have that done either right?

For me $20,000 might as well be $2M because I could never, ever pay it!

 

[BLAZEY]

As a Canadian, this has fortunately not been my experience at all.

From childbirth, to accidents and illness, to surgeries, to cancer diagnoses and treatment, to palliative care, my experience of our health care system has been entirely satisfactory. While there is no system that can't be improved in some way, I am very happy with the care my family and I have received.

Same here in BC Canada. Never had to wait an unreasonable amount of time. Most blood work, urine or stool type tests have been done same day as ordered. Ultrasounds, MRI, CAT Scans usually a couple of weeks. I always say put me on the cancel list. the majority of people that have longer wait times live in very rural areas where there isn't access to major hospitals where some tests are done. If you're not willing to travel a couple of hours to a city where there are more machines and staff, you wait.

 

[wvjules]

I will assume you didn't watch the program on CNN where they were discussing what I referenced. So no, people are NOT only concerned for themselves and there were some solid solutions presented for getting costs down, which is what needs to happen. I can't say much more without it getting into politics, but there are things being discussed that can help hopefully, and why should I pay for a plan that has maternity & birth control when I've had a hysterectomy and my DH has had a vasectomy??? Shouldn't we be able to say, no thanks, I'll get a cheaper plan that doesn't include that?? It's about having the option to choose the coverage we want, not HAVE to have every kind of coverage because someone says so.

I agree with what you say. People should be able to tailor their plan to their needs (hysterectomy no maternity coverage or bc coverage, age no maternity). However, proof would have to be provided in order for it not to be abused. I also agree with TC that there needs to be interstate markets. People in WV only have one choice...insurances shouldn't get to choose not to do business in certain states. However, I still fully believe that we need a mandatory coverage if we are going to keep the pre-existing condition clause. You can't have one without the other. It will break the system. Which one do you choose?

 

[tarheelmjfan]

To be clear, I NEVER said our system was better, just that saying do it like x,y,z counties isn't a fix all since it comes with it's own problems.

Although my grandmother's brother did have the long wait for cancer treatment in Canada, that wasn't actually the county I was talking about in my earlier post. I am smart enough to know that anecdotal evidence is not actual evidence. But it's also really disrespectful to assume that anybody who finds issues with universal healthcare in other counties doesnt know anything about it and are only believing fearmongering.

If someone comes up with a better solution for all Americans, I'm all ears. I'd be happy to listen to anything they have to say. That said, waiting to see a doctor isn't a threat to people who can't see one at all. For them, a Universal system is much better.

 

[Magpie]

For me $20,000 might as well be $2M because I could never, ever pay it!

Pfft. If you REALLY loved your four children, you'd sell the house, pull the one with the learning disability out of his special school, inform the others they can give up on going to college, tell your elderly parents to look after themselves, throw a bakesale and go bankrupt.

 

[Poohlove]

Then I guess I just shouldn't care if she dies and her children are without their mother. If she's going to die she'd better do it a decrease the surplus population.

I think that getting people thinking and talking was a good thing. I do think it is sad that so many don't believe thinking and talking about issues helps anything. If you don't think and talk, where do you think progress comes from?

Whoa Nelly, let's back it up a minute. I didn't say that you shouldn't care and I think that you are being a little extreme in making that kind of a statement and quoting my post.

Absolutely no where in my post did I state that I think that discussing our fractured healthcare system (or any other matter FWIW) is a bad thing. What I said was who are we to criticize her? I do not feel it is my place to scrutinize a total stranger's decisions, especially without more information, and it's not like she is saying she isn't having further testing because she doesn't want to, she can't afford it - there is an enormous difference and that is what should be discussed, not her frame of mind.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

I will assume you didn't watch the program on CNN where they were discussing what I referenced. So no, people are NOT only concerned for themselves and there were some solid solutions presented for getting costs down, which is what needs to happen. I can't say much more without it getting into politics, but there are things being discussed that can help hopefully, and why should I pay for a plan that has maternity & birth control when I've had a hysterectomy and my DH has had a vasectomy??? Shouldn't we be able to say, no thanks, I'll get a cheaper plan that doesn't include that?? It's about having the option to choose the coverage we want, not HAVE to have every kind of coverage because someone says so.

In many first world countries, people take care of each other and don't begrudge healthcare for each other. The problem has been everyone for themselves in the US. Bigger homes, bigger cars, bigger food. Rich get richer and poor get poorer and that is perfectly acceptable to many. Yet, as many countries have shown, people are happier living in a society where everyone takes care of each other.

 

[Poohlove]

I will assume you didn't watch the program on CNN where they were discussing what I referenced. So no, people are NOT only concerned for themselves and there were some solid solutions presented for getting costs down, which is what needs to happen. I can't say much more without it getting into politics, but there are things being discussed that can help hopefully, and why should I pay for a plan that has maternity & birth control when I've had a hysterectomy and my DH has had a vasectomy??? Shouldn't we be able to say, no thanks, I'll get a cheaper plan that doesn't include that?? It's about having the option to choose the coverage we want, not HAVE to have every kind of coverage because someone says so.

Do you also feel that you shouldn't have to pay the portion of your property taxes that support your local school if you don't have a child in the school system?

I don't have a prostate but my plan covers prostate issues, at what age should we add dementia care in to a plan?

Where do you draw the line?

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I can't actually think of a time when it was better for everyone (versus better for some) in the US...

If I go back to the 70's, I'm thinking of the stories my mum told me about the very scary public hospitals (and why she wouldn't give birth in the Catholic one).

Further back than that, and we're looking at segregated care for blacks and whites. And testing/experimentation done without people's consent.

I'm not sure when the Golden Age of American Health Care would have been.

I'm sure there never was a perfect time in US Healthcare, but it used to be better. It has become big business between hospitals, doctors, insurance & drug companies. Somewhere along the line, patients have become an afterthought in many cases.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

Then I guess I just shouldn't care if she dies and her children are without their mother. If she's going to die she'd better do it a decrease the surplus population.

I think that getting people thinking and talking was a good thing. I do think it is sad that so many don't believe thinking and talking about issues helps anything. If you don't think and talk, where do you think progress comes from?

Well she doesn't have to die if you pay her medical expenses like I've suggested.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm sure There never was a perfect time in US Healthcare, but it used to be better. It has become big business between hospitals, doctors, insurance & drug companies. Somewhere along the line patients have become an after thought in many cases.

Don't forget the politicians. They're a big player that group now too.

 

[pat fan]

However, I still fully believe that we need a mandatory coverage if we are going to keep the pre-existing condition clause. You can't have one without the other. It will break the system. Which one do you choose?

I won't pretend to have all the answers, which is why I'm not on the team coming up with the solutions, lol! I just know what we used to have needed fixing but what they "fixed" it with is just as bad, only in a different way.

Two personal stories....a couple I know are self-employed. Chose to not buy health insurance but put money in savings and used that for whatever health costs came up. Has worked for them their whole lives (they're older than I am). Now, they have to buy a plan which is astronomical and can't afford to put money aside and have such high deductibles that they can't use it. Or shall I say choose not to use it. This is in Ma BTW.

Next one is family in NC. Chose to not have insurance for 2 family members, but have it for the other 2 (provider and child with heart condition). Other 2 paid out of pocket or bartered with Dr for services. Worked fine.Now they pay for coverage for everyone with is $$$ and are still paying OOP for treatment because of high deductible so what was the point? Except that now they can't afford to go to the Dr because all the money goes to buying the insurance plan.

Ok, one more. We personally had fabulous insurance through my husband. ACA comes, they drop it and now I have to get it through my job and it's more expensive and not as good. Not even close. PLUS a deductible that is painful, although not as bad as some people I know. So yeah, it needs to fixed and I don't have all the answers, but this aint working.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Don't forget the politicians. They're a big player that group now too.

Silly me. They're the leader of the pack.

 

[pat fan]

Do you also feel that you shouldn't have to pay the portion of your property taxes that support your local school if you don't have a child in the school system?

I don't understand the correlation. Please explain.

 

[Hikergirl]

In many first world countries, people take care of each other and don't begrudge healthcare for each other. The problem has been everyone for themselves in the US. Bigger homes, bigger cars, bigger food. Rich get richer and poor get poorer and that is perfectly acceptable to many. Yet, as many countries have shown, people are happier living in a society where everyone takes care of each other.

But we aren't helping everyone. Great, people now have health coverage that couldn't before, and those that could before ACA can't afford their deductibles so they go without health care.
So all that happened now is that those who couldn't afford insurance can get it, and those who once could afford it now can't pay their own medical bills even with coverage.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I was just reading an article in the Washington Post last night (their weekly health section) about a doctor who did NOT go to the ER when he was having all the signs of a potential heart attack because he has a high deductible plan and he knew how much the emergency room costs could set him back. A doctor!!! I was really surprised. One, because I always think doctors have money but that's not necessarily true, and two, because I just assume that they have good health insurance or some network of "friend" doctors that they can count on. But I didn't quite catch what type of doctor he was, but Iw as surprised at the whole thing.

I think this really has a lot to do with denial. In order to do the type of work we do, medical professionals have to compartmentalize what we see and deal with day after day, year after year. When things happen to us ourselves, it's like, whoa, this can't be me!, and it can take a little while to set in. It's a deep-seated thing, maybe suppressed in a lot of us, but that we all live with when trying to do our life's work. Some examples from a quick search around:

This from When Doctors Become Patients re a young doctor with cancer...

"He noticed this not only among the doctors who were treating him, but also among his colleagues,

As [the cancer] became more chronic, some lost interest, and … others who met me completely ignored the fact that I was ill despite my appearance … This may have been another manifestation of the denial mechanism- my colleagues denying that I was ill and protecting themselves from a reminder of their own vulnerability to disease. Doctors often forget that they are also human."

I guess another way to put it is to say that in order to do the work, they have to consciously put their fears about themselves aside, so that when something does hit them, it may take a reach to pull out from way down inside the fact that they are just as vulnerable as their patients, even if they have trouble initially accepting it. If that makes sense.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

But we aren't helping everyone. Great, people now have health coverage that couldn't before, and those that could before ACA can't afford their deductibles so they go without health care.
So all that happened now is that those who couldn't afford insurance can get it, and those who once could afford it now can't pay their own medical bills even with coverage.

Oh I agree it's not working which is why I'm suggesting universal healthcare of some type.

 

[CarolAnn856]

I'm sure There never was a perfect time in US Healthcare, but it used to be better. It has become big business between hospitals, doctors, insurance & drug companies. Somewhere along the line patients have become an after thought in many cases.

I agree with your second and third sentences, but not the first. While healthcare may have been better for some of the population, it was inaccessible to a large portion of citizens. How was that a good thing?

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I agree with your second and third sentences, but not the first. While healthcare may have been better for some of the population, it was inaccessible to a large portion of citizens. How was that a good thing?

Before I reply incorrectly, please expand on what you mean by saying it was inaccessible to many? (date, location, etc.?) I can think of two interpretations. My answer would be different for each.

Sorry for the confusion. I just want to make sure I don't misunderstand what you mean & jump to the wrong conclusion.