Separating school discipline from home...

[phorsenuf]

I am not going to get into the rest of your post BUT I have to highlight this.

Do you honestly think expecting a kindergartner 6 weeks into the school year to stand in line quietly keeping his hands still, to sit at story time and not roll on the floor, to not throw things around the room, to not talk out of turn. you honestly think these are unreasonable expectations!!!!!!!!! Wow!!!

I can't believe this, I expected this basic listening out of preschoolers. I really hate to see your schools if these basic behaviors are skewed and unreasonable.

She's obviously not from Minnesota.

 

[Wishing on a star]

 

[allison443]

As a parent, I can tell you that kids, including 5-year-olds, are also perfectly capable of recalling an incident that happened during school.

Absolutely! The op's son can recall a song his teacher sang, and I'm sure many other things about school...I'm sure he is able to recall what he did wrong. I was very surprised to see the posters claiming a five year old wouldn't remember something that happened a few hours earlier. They remember their lessons, what their friends said...they definitely can remember what they did wrong. Of course they may say they don't remember.... I'm sure most kids have done that. But that's different than not being able to remember.

 

[allison443]

I am not going to get into the rest of your post BUT I have to highlight this.

Do you honestly think expecting a kindergartner 6 weeks into the school year to stand in line quietly keeping his hands still, to sit at story time and not roll on the floor, to not throw things around the room, to not talk out of turn. you honestly think these are unreasonable expectations!!!!!!!!! Wow!!!

I can't believe this, I expected this basic listening out of preschoolers. I really hate to see your schools if these basic behaviors are skewed and unreasonable.

I agree that a kid in full day kindergarten (which my kids attended also) should be able to do these things. Rolling on the floor, really?

 

[mybabesuz]

After your last post I would be willing to bet $100 that your older kids would never have been allowed to do in kinder, what this one is doing. As an older Mom I see it all the time. He is your baby and a late baby. you even said it he is the family clown. You all think he is cute. the older kids thought of him as an entertainment not so much as a sibling. you are tired and so much of what is considered important in elem school as the parent of grown kids you know isn't that important in the large scheme of things. No you aren't a bad parent you are a tired parent. I find myself doing it to, the poster in 4th grade that you would have made 3 trips to Walmart to get stuff with the first one gets done with pasta from the cupboard with the last one.

But the fact is he isn't the subs baby they don't find him cute and he should be behaving in school He is 6 weeks into school. he should know the routine by now, he should be able to stand quietly in line without singing a song-quite frankly that is rather pre-schooly. maybe they would be moving on to reading if the kids were behaving?

You aren't doing him any favors being easy on him because he is the baby. let him get away with all you want at home but make him toe the line the same as you would have with your first. The school is trying to be nice and calling you. Would you rather they suspend him? Are you ready for them to suggest he stay back if he isn't mature enough to handle school?

I'm older and wiser now.
And he isn't my baby.
And I was very young when I had the others.
And what about the fact that his behavior was excellent before his teacher left.
He had a sticker on his shirt every day for GOOD Behavior.
This is not an on going problem, it is a new problem.

 

[mybabesuz]

But you send them to school sick. There's no way that any child could go for 4 years and never miss a day of school without being sick.

Not something to be proud of if you ask me.

My son was very proud of his accompishment!

He was never sick enough to stay home.
The rule in my house is no fever, no diarrhea or vomiting and you go to school.
A little cold is no reason to stay home.
My kids have a hot breakfast every morning, a healthy lunch, and we eat a healthy dinner together every night.
We don't eat fast food.
The kids watch very little TV and don't eat much sugar.
So taking away TV or dessert would mean nothing.
They take daily vitamins, get flu shots, and they are taught to wash their hands.
I guess I really can't win with you guys huh?

 

[C.Ann]

I'm older and wiser now.
And he isn't my baby.
And I was very young when I had the others.
And what about the fact that his behavior was excellent before his teacher left.
He had a sticker on his shirt every day for GOOD Behavior.
This is not an on going problem, it is a new problem.

Well - going all the way back to your first post then, what do you want the school to do to discipline your child when he's doing all of the things you have mentioned that is very disruptive to the class because "he's a follower"?

What type of in-school discipline would be satisfactory for you - so that no consequences have to spill over into your home? Can you give any examples?

If so, then maybe the teachers who have posted on this thread can inform you as to whether or not these are allowed in the schools today.. Don't forget - teachers can no longer apply the same types of discipline that they did with your older children..

And since his former teacher's absence and any questions regarding an approximate return date are being held in the strictest confidence (which could be due to the fact that it's a very personal issue - or a very serious health issue with no guarantee that she will recover and come back at all) - what are you going to do then? Your son has to adjust to her absence - whether she's been gone a month or whether she never returns.. If still being in that same classroom is causing him this much stress and anxiety, I honestly think you should try to have him moved to another K-class ASAP..

 

[mybabesuz]

Absolutely! The op's son can recall a song his teacher sang, and I'm sure many other things about school...I'm sure he is able to recall what he did wrong. I was very surprised to see the posters claiming a five year old wouldn't remember something that happened a few hours earlier. They remember their lessons, what their friends said...they definitely can remember what they did wrong. Of course they may say they don't remember.... I'm sure most kids have done that. But that's different than not being able to remember.

again...more word twisting... I never said he didn't remember what he did.
I said I thought the discipline would be more effective if something else was done at school besides card turning.
I am saying I wish they would punish him MORE at school!
I never said he didn't do something.
I'm saying with 10 other children not paying attention it is human nature to not want to either.
He is bored! They are NOT teaching him anything new.
If you think a 5 year olds self control is fully developed you are the one mistaken!

 

[mybabesuz]

Well - going all the way back to your first post then, what do you want the school to do to discipline your child when he's doing all of the things you have mentioned that is very disruptive to the class because "he's a follower"?

What type of in-school discipline would be satisfactory for you - so that no consequences have to spill over into your home? Can you give any examples?

If so, then maybe the teachers who have posted on this thread can inform you as to whether or not these are allowed in the schools today.. Don't forget - teachers can no longer apply the same types of discipline that they did with your older children..

And since his former teacher's absence and any questions regarding an approximate return date are being held in the strictest confidence (which could be due to the fact that it's a very personal issue - or a very serious health issue with no guarantee that she will recover and come back at all) - what are you going to do then? Your son has to adjust to her absence - whether she's been gone a month or whether she never returns.. If still being in that same classroom is causing him this much stress and anxiety, I honestly think you should try to have him moved to another K-class ASAP..

I never said I didn't want to assist in disciplining him at home.
I just wanted the school to do more than turn a card.
I want them to get a darn teacher that knows how to teach kindergarten.
That can keep the kids attention and be more positive.
Why can't they sit him at another table by himself and tell him he can rejoin the group when ready?
Or send him to the end of the line.
NO it's just "stop that or I'll turn your card"
I heard it 20 times last week when I was there!
I tried to help her...telling the kids...you wouldn't do that if Mrs. *** was here.
The class was so out of control, I didn't want to be there!
I wasn't the teacher, I wasn't going to just take over.
Again, he had nothing but praise for his behavior before his teacher left.

 

[smb6]

But you send them to school sick. There's no way that any child could go for 4 years and never miss a day of school without being sick.

Not something to be proud of if you ask me.

Sure they can! My kids get perfect attendance year after year! Two of my kids have never missed a single day and the two oldest are in middle school! They are proud and I'm proud of them. They hardly ever get sick, and when they do it's usually just a cold. We wash hands a lot and just been blessed. I don't think I do anything better than anyone, we've just lucked out. I don't think bad of anyone whose kid misses school, and I certainly don't know why anyone would think bad of me because my kids don't? I have not read through all this, but this one jumped out at me.....

 

[torinsmom]

OP, when did your son start school? I ask because here in NC, kindergartners have a staggered entry. They were not at school for full days all together until September 1st. It is October 11 tomorrow. So, my kids have been in school for less than 6 weeks. You said the sub has been there for 2 weeks now, so if your district is similar to hours, the "real" teacher was only there with the kids for at most 4 weeks. Honestly, I can tell you that it takes 3-4 weeks for the bad behavior to really start showing for most K's. We call that first month "the honeymoon period", because the kids are still nervous about a new situation and on their best behavior. October is when we see what we have to deal with for the year

I am not saying this is definitely the case with your child. I do think you might consider that he could be exhibiting this type of behavior with the original teacher if she were still there. I hope you are not making light of the calls in front of him, because whether you agree with this sub or not, SHE is the teacher and if you do that, your child will continue to not respect her. BTW, if he is rolling on the carpet and playing in the line, he IS disrespecting her. There may be others doing the same, but now is the time for him to learn that we are each responsible for our own actions. Yes, K's are still learning, but most of the hundreds I have taught in my 11 years of teaching have been able to refrain from rolling on the carpet and walk in a line without playing.

 

[allison443]

Sure they can! My kids get perfect attendance year after year! Two of my kids have never missed a single day and the two oldest are in middle school! They are proud and I'm proud of them. They hardly ever get sick, and when they do it's usually just a cold. We wash hands a lot and just been blessed. I don't think I do anything better than anyone, we've just lucked out. I don't think bad of anyone whose kid misses school, and I certainly don't know why anyone would think bad of me because my kids don't? I have not read through all this, but this one jumped out at me.....

I agree you have been very lucky! I think people don't understand why this warrants an award though...what is it that your proud of, that your kids were lucky and never got sick? My kids never "cut" school, they only stayed home if legitimately ill (rarely), but I guess they weren't lucky enough so they don't warrant an award?

 

[allison443]

again...more word twisting... I never said he didn't remember what he did.
I said I thought the discipline would be more effective if something else was done at school besides card turning.
I am saying I wish they would punish him MORE at school!
I never said he didn't do something.
I'm saying with 10 other children not paying attention it is human nature to not want to either.
He is bored! They are NOT teaching him anything new.
If you think a 5 year olds self control is fully developed you are the one mistaken!

If you notice I wasn't referring to you as saying your son couldn't remember, because I did see the posts where you said you talked to him about it and he told you what happened. But others said he wouldn't be able to remember or verbalize or make the connection if you talked about it when he got home. I just don't think that's true. So actually I think we agree.

 

[allison443]

I am not saying this is definitely the case with your child. I do think you might consider that he could be exhibiting this type of behavior with the original teacher if she were still there. I hope you are not making light of the calls in front of him, because whether you agree with this sub or not, SHE is the teacher and if you do that, your child will continue to not respect her. BTW, if he is rolling on the carpet and playing in the line, he IS disrespecting her. There may be others doing the same, but now is the time for him to learn that we are each responsible for our own actions. Yes, K's are still learning, but most of the hundreds I have taught in my 11 years of teaching have been able to refrain from rolling on the carpet and walk in a line without playing.

I agree, if he is bored because he already knows the material, wouldn't that be the same whoever the teacher was?
Also, regardless of the teacher, every class can have a student who acts up. It's important for other kids to learn not to follow.

 

[MM27]

I never said I didn't want to assist in disciplining him at home.
I just wanted the school to do more than turn a card.
I want them to get a darn teacher that knows how to teach kindergarten.
That can keep the kids attention and be more positive.
Why can't they sit him at another table by himself and tell him he can rejoin the group when ready?
Or send him to the end of the line.
NO it's just "stop that or I'll turn your card"
I heard it 20 times last week when I was there!
I tried to help her...telling the kids...you wouldn't do that if Mrs. *** was here.
The class was so out of control, I didn't want to be there!
I wasn't the teacher, I wasn't going to just take over.
Again, he had nothing but praise for his behavior before his teacher left.

Have you spoken with the principal about this? Perhaps they can get the sub some assistance in the classroom. Sounds like the sub is trying really hard to follow the behavior management system that the teacher already had in place.

Kids know there is a difference between a sub and the regular teacher and will take advantage of that. Sounds like the sub is looking for parental support to help get the kids understanding that she means business and that parents will support her. I don't think she's asking you to spank your son or throw him in his room for the weekend, but she would like you to get through to him that right now she is in charge of the classroom and he needs to follow the rules the same way he would if the regular teacher was there.

You don't know how long the teacher is going to be out, so I would say, do something about the behaviors now before the teacher comes back and they become hard to break.

 

[smb6]

I agree you have been very lucky! I think people don't understand why this warrants an award though...what is it that your proud of, that your kids were lucky and never got sick? My kids never "cut" school, they only stayed home if legitimately ill (rarely), but I guess they weren't lucky enough so they don't warrant an award?

I'm proud of my kids for making honor roll, principle's list (straight A's), top reading points for their grade (my second son got it for the whole school), citizenship award(for being polite and respectful/only one per grade), and their perfect attendance award among other things. What should I do, refuse the award?

I think they have a pefect attendance award for two reasons: 1) some kids miss school when they really don't have to, and it rewards the kids that don't do that and 2) (and IMO the main reason) is because the school gets more money the less kids miss school- making it an award and in our school having a $50 gift certificate makes the kids and parents more likely to strive for it. My kids also got tshirts that say "free education, must be present to win" or something like that.... The school wants your kids to not miss school because it's obviously easier to learn if they are there and the school looses out on money if they are absent. I'm not saying that is ok or promoting it, but just saying that is what it is....

I'm proud of my kids for all their achievements.....

 

[Ceila]

I always thought that the "perfect attendance" awards were asinie. They reward kids for not happening to pick up the virus from the kid coughing and sneezing next to them (who probably came to school sick to get the PA award in the first place). I prefer awards that actually reflect on something all children have control over - attitude, effort, performance. Something real.

 

[disfan07]

see. now it just sounds like the OP is just making excuses AND bragging about her children instead of actually trying to do anything to help.

OP, you are the parent. If your child is behvaing teh way he is in class (not listening, acting up etc) and being a class clown (which is NOT cute at all) it can be most likely remedied at home. In my 3 adn 4 year old preschool/daycare classes, we always knew which parents actually disciplined and talked to their children at home because they were kids thet WE DIDNT have to continuously talk to. We would tell their parent at pick up that their child was not listening and that they were goofing off during circle time, or lunch, etc. The kids who continued to do this day after day, week after week, were the ones who were not being disciplined or talked to about their behvaior at home. The ones whos parents did do that, stopped the behavior except for maybe the occassional slip up.

Talk to you child about his behavior and tell him why it is not acceptable. Why is that so hard to do?

And why on earth can you not get over the sub issue and just tell your child that mrs. so and so is doing something somwhere else for a while and she would be so happy if you could behave for her while she is gone. Is that so hard to tell him?

 

[allison443]

I'm proud of my kids for making honor roll, principle's list (straight A's), top reading points for their grade (my second son got it for the whole school), citizenship award(for being polite and respectful/only one per grade), and their perfect attendance award among other things. What should I do, refuse the award?

I think they have a pefect attendance award for two reasons: 1) some kids miss school when they really don't have to, and it rewards the kids that don't do that and 2) (and IMO the main reason) is because the school gets more money the less kids miss school- making it an award and in our school having a $50 gift certificate makes the kids and parents more likely to strive for it. My kids also got tshirts that say "free education, must be present to win" or something like that.... The school wants your kids to not miss school because it's obviously easier to learn if they are there and the school looses out on money if they are absent. I'm not saying that is ok or promoting it, but just saying that is what it is....

I'm proud of my kids for all their achievements.....

I think most people are proud of something they earn and it sounds like your kids have earned many awards and well deserve them...I was just pointing out that you yourself said their perfect attendance was a matter of being blessed, lucky, and it wasn't because your family does anything different...your kids were just lucky they never got sick. Do you think they earned or acheived something?

 

[PFlamingo]

Why can't they sit him at another table by himself and tell him he can rejoin the group when ready?
Or send him to the end of the line.
NO it's just "stop that or I'll turn your card"

I think this is reasonable. These are things my colleagues who teach the younger kids do. I'm curious, though - what did his regular teacher do for discipline? Did she use the "turn the card" method? The sub may just be trying to keep the system the regular teacher used.

If the regular teacher was that much fun, no wonder he's unhappy she's not there. But, not every teacher can be "Maria," and the ones who aren't need all the help they can get. All the more reason to talk to your DS about behaving in class. As for what she's teaching, if that's the curriculum, that's what she has to teach. If it's not, then you need to talk to the principal about that. If it's the curriculum and he's past that, then you need to consider other options - gifted program, different school. Do the other kids know their shapes & colors? Maybe they need that instruction. Personally, I wish I could move along at a faster pace for my most advanced students, but our classes are just not set up that way. I know some of them are bored, but they're older kids and know how to channel that more productively.

It sounds like this sub may be there for a good while. It might be better for everyone to try to make the best of it. Maybe you or some of the other parents could volunteer to come in to class to help out. But maybe approach it as "how can I help you?" rather than "you need to do this." I'm sure you meant well with what you said, but it may not have come across that way. You may think she should be able to handle the class by herself, but our K, 1, and 2 teachers all have 20+ years experience and they all have parapro's in the class with them. And they will all tell you they absolutely need them. She's probably just as frustrated as you are, and having a parent (or parents) who are willing to help out at school might be just the ticket. Just a thought.