Self Defense or Murder?

[chiefcop]

This will ultimately depend on how Oklahoma law is interpreted and the DA presents the case.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Found guilty of murder given life.
http://newsok.com/ersland-gets-life...uspend-all-of-prison-sentence/article/3584664

 

[happygirl]

Found guilty of murder given life.
http://newsok.com/ersland-gets-life...uspend-all-of-prison-sentence/article/3584664

It's really sad when a person who is defend themselves and there property is the one held accountable. I hope this man wins his appeal

 

[bunkkinsmom]

Wow. Just wow.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Bull. How did the jury hear evidence nobody else did? And doesn't first degree murder require advance intent? Not just having a gun (or guns) available in case one needs to defend oneself? Guilty of killing someone, okay - but first degree murder????

 

[136368]

Executing a wounded suspect is murder. He equalled no threat. Smacks of Jean Charles, although not as over the top.

 

[bunkkinsmom]

Executing a wounded suspect is murder. He equalled no threat. Smacks of Jean Charles, although not as over the top.[/QUOTE

But is he a suspect? It wasn't a question, this kid did it. Show of
Hands, who here has been shot at or had a gun to their heads?

I have, and u don't know how you will react. I didn't even get
Scared until an hour later, up until then I was out of my mind
With anger.

 

[136368]

Executing a wounded suspect is murder. He equalled no threat. Smacks of Jean Charles, although not as over the top.

But is he a suspect? It wasn't a question, this kid did it. Show of
Hands, who here has been shot at or had a gun to their heads?

I have, and u don't know how you will react. I didn't even get
Scared until an hour later, up until then I was out of my mind
With anger.

Are you saying the wounded individual may not have even been guilty of an offence?

Honestly, I'm rather lost, but that's not a first

 

[OceanAnnie]

I can't recall the details. Who did the 14 year old accomplice kill? I read where he pled guilty to first degree murder.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Anyone who has ever been in combat knows that our laws are not sufficient to handle a case like this. Your brain activity is changed by the chemicals released when your life is placed in peril. You don't just turn it off, and the feelings of imminent danger do not just end when the person who placed you in danger stops moving. You know what is right and wrong sitting on your couch. So does this guy. But he was not sitting safely on his couch when he killed that man.

Another failure of our judicial system.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

I think that if someone came after me or my family to kill them, I'd make sure they were dead if I had the chance. Am I supposed to live watching over my shoulder the rest of my life for them?

 

[CurlyGirl]

Let me give you my take on it. I believe that the man was a victim of TV and movie influence. How many times have you seen a person on TV or in the movies shoot down the villain, walk away and then be attacked again by that same villain when his back is turned? I always find myself screaming at the screen, "Finish him off or he'll be back to finish you off!"

That was exactly the first thought I had in my head while reading through these posts ... how many times do you see the villain "come to" just when the victim thinks it's safe!

I don't know how I'd react in the same situation ... would I do the same and get another gun to "finish off the job" or would I train a gun on him while I called 911? Because training a gun on the villain doesn't mean the villain isn't going to get the gun away from me and kill me with it!

 

[donald&daisy]

I can't recall the details. Who did the 14 year old accomplice kill? I read where he pled guilty to first degree murder.

An overly simple explanation: When you have multiple people involved in a crime and someone gets killed you can charge them with a resulting murder under the felony murder rule. That's why the other two adults that were not at the pharmacy were also charged including the pharmacist.

 

[donald&daisy]

Bull. How did the jury hear evidence nobody else did? And doesn't first degree murder require advance intent? Not just having a gun (or guns) available in case one needs to defend oneself? Guilty of killing someone, okay - but first degree murder????

I took the part about the jury to mean that they are ones who sat through the entire trial and heard all of the evidence...not that they heard things no one else did. I could be wrong though.

Also, "advance intent" or premeditation doesn't have a time limit attached; it can happen in just a few seconds. It doesn't mean the pharmacist sat there for 5 minutes and thought about going back to finish off the kid, but there was delay between the first shot and the last few shots.

I don't know much of the evidence in this case at all, but I will say I am glad the judge held the two adult men that sent the kids in to their dirty work liable.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

First degree murder requires premeditation. Tell me how a man who is still afraid for his life can be said to have "planned" a murder that he commits seconds later. That is not planning. At worst, it is an impulsive behavior.

I find it difficult to believe that this man was given a fair trial. I hope the governor comes to his senses and grants clemency immediately. Sadly, politics will probably preclude that possibility.

I just don't understand why Americans trust our judicial system.

 

[PaulaSB12]

It's really sad when a person who is defend themselves and there property is the one held accountable. I hope this man wins his appeal

He defended his propety when he shot the man then chased the other one out of the shop. When he walk round the robber to the counter, past a door picked up another gun and shot him. At that point it went from self defence to murder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJZdFcDmllQ

 

[OceanAnnie]

An overly simple explanation: When you have multiple people involved in a crime and someone gets killed you can charge them with a resulting murder under the felony murder rule. That's why the other two adults that were not at the pharmacy were also charged including the pharmacist.

Yes. I just didn't know if there was more to the case. I thought perhaps the other perpetrator had a murder charge all his own (as in not involving the accomplice).

Thanks.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

He defended his propety when he shot the man then chased the other one out of the shop. When he walk round the robber to the counter, past a door picked up another gun and shot him. At that point it went from self defense to murder...

A few points:

* Until recently, murder was defined as an act that required premeditation. However, because that is so hard to prove, we have changed the laws to make it easier to get murder convictions by removing the requirement. Nevermind that we always had manslaughter for these crimes.
* Even after we changed the laws to remove premeditation as a requirement for a murder conviction, we still held/hold it as a requirement for a First Degree murder conviction.
* Premeditation requires planning and time to consider the consequences. Even if you agree that this man murdered the other, you cannot believe that he was capable of planning the murder and its consequences in the seconds it took him to commit the "crime" given the circumstances.
* So, while it may be murder by today's standards, it is certainly not first degree murder, and it would not have been considered murder at all as recently as 10 years ago.

 

[donald&daisy]

Yes. I just didn't know if there was more to the case. I thought perhaps the other perpetrator had a murder charge all his own (as in not involving the accomplice).

Thanks.

No, the only one killed was the young boy although I think the other boy was in possession of a gun.

 

[dodukes]

wow just saw the video, while i would never guess what i would do in his situation, i can see both sides to this, i think if he was down just maybe kick the gun away, not sure, i personally would no convict. i think if people knew that victims were fighting back and will kill you, then these things would happen less.
so yeah its hard to say sitting here and not at the pharmacy. but i agree with a pp, actually 3 lives ruined.