Self Defense or Murder?

You can watch the video. Its too dark but aside from that I think the boy is cut off from the cameras view. Maybe not, maybe its just too dark for me to see it.

http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=5001&s=16856&p=1158
WOW


The first shot was self defense, but the rest weren't.

The man appears to be calm when he returns. He didn't run to get the second gun. Heck he didn't he run over to where the boy was. He walks calmly the whole time, bends over and fires. Then calmly walks over to the phone.:confused3
 
Diffiuclt position to be in.
Certainly not pre-meditated murder, more of a "heat of the moment" thing.

Don't know what I'd do.
 
Having watched the video posted, we really can't come to an informed conclusion. We might assume the teen was unconsious. There is also a possibility the shooter thought so, too, and then reacted to the teen struggling to re-engage, or at least appearing to do so. Being shot once in the head doesn't always mean incapacitated. We can't judge based on what we can't see.

I'm reminded of an incident I read about some years ago where a NYPD crime stake-out detective emptied a .38 into a robber's face/head at close range. The robber was assumed dead. They were startled when the guy asked for something so he could blow his nose. Fortunately, the fight had been taken out of him by that point.

I'm sure the grand jury on this case will have more information than we do.
 
Having watched the video posted, we really can't come to an informed conclusion.
When has that ever stopped we DIS boards stalwarts from making snap judgments? :lmao:
 

I have to agree with Carly Roach- when he entered they entered the store and aimed a gun at the man behind the counter, they lost their rights. Sad, but oh well. Now he won't have a chance to rob,and possibly kill, someone else's mother, father, etc.
 
This case was being discussed yesterday on talk radio. Some guy, who is supposedly a regular customer of this pharmacy called in. He said that this was the 4th time this year that the Pharmacist was robbed.

I think they guy just temporarily went insane. I dont think it's murder.
 
I agree, Dawn. Murder. Same as something that happened here a while back with the undercover police.



Rich::
 
This case was being discussed yesterday on talk radio. Some guy, who is supposedly a regular customer of this pharmacy called in. He said that this was the 4th time this year that the Pharmacist was robbed.

I think they guy just temporarily went insane. I dont think it's murder.

Well then I have a better understanding of his reaction. We can't possibly know what went on in that man's mind, but being confronted by armed masked men could make lots of people lose their mind temporarily. Also, as for his demeanor and walking in a slow and "calm" manner, I heard he had back surgery in April and was wearing a brace. I think it would be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed first degree murder.
 
Well then I have a better understanding of his reaction. We can't possibly know what went on in that man's mind, but being confronted by armed masked men could make lots of people lose their mind temporarily. Also, as for his demeanor and walking in a slow and "calm" manner, I heard he had back surgery in April and was wearing a brace. I think it would be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed first degree murder.

I agree. We also don't know what was said or done that wasn't on the tape.
I feel sorry for all concerned. Terribly sad.

ETA- Was the pharmacist beaten? Were the perps repeat offenders to the same place? If so, was there violence on their part? Did they threaten to kill him? Lots to consider.
 
"He didn't have to shoot my baby like that," Parker's mother, Cleta Jennings, told TV station KOCO.

This is the part that makes me mad. If her baby hadn't been pointing a gun at someone in the attempt to rob them (or worse), then her baby wouldn't have been shot. I realize she's grieving, but because of the chain of actions "baby" started he just ruined another man's life.

I also love to watch how the media spins these sort of things. We have one tv station here that in these type situations (criminal dying) will show mama crying for her poor baby that didn't have to be killed and the other station will show "baby's" mug shots when discussing the story. It is ridiculous.
 
The media would necessarily look at covering this like they would cover a tennis. :)
 
one tv station here that in these type situations (criminal dying) will show mama crying for her poor baby that didn't have to be killed
"He was no angel, but he was a good boy."

Translated - he was a drug addict/dealer, but he bought mamma some nice presents.
 
I think when there is more than old assailant or gun man it is unrealistic to think you can hold someone at gunpoint and then survive. I think that the first shooting was justified. He life was directly threatened, after that, at least manslaughter. It takes some action and thought to go behind a counter, get another gun and kill an unconscious person.

When you have a guy pointing a gun in your face and your life is threatened, as the Pharmacist's was, you may not be thinking rationally in the time period immediately following the incident. I think rather than him being charged with murder, manslaugher is more appropriate, if even that.
 
I'm a firm believer in self-defense, but to leave to get another gun and return to shoot an attacker who is no longer a threat is a real stretch.

I agree there are two stages in this incident. Taking the attacker out of action, including killing him, is self-defense. The five follow-up shots appear to have been not called for. To say that was murder may or may not be technically correct, depending on further determination.

It is considered that if you have cause to defend yourself with a gun (or any other weapon) you have the right to kill the attacker. It is not uncommon to fire multiple shots until the attacker is stopped. In fact, it is recommended because a hesitation between shots could be fatal for the defender, and that includes law enforcement personnel. There is even a school of thought that says if you shoot, you should shoot to kill. However, and it's a big however, once the threat has been stopped, dead or alive, the act of self-defense also stops.

Did the robber deserve to die? My belief is that once you decide to commit a crime, you deserve the consequences. Consider it a bad career choice.
agree.
 
My sympathies lie with the pharmacist and his family. He was just a man minding his own business, trying to do an honest day's work and not looking for violence, but instead was forced in a situation where he had to take some action. After being robbed several times, who knows what was going on in his mind.
 
I just watched the video. Murder. That guy was calm. Why did he go back in if he was so fearful. You can see cars going by on the road so this is not an isolated spot, he isn't yelling for help or anything. He walks back in, as is mentioned turns his back on the boy, if he fears him why turn your back, and gets a gun and shoots.

Change of venue is definitely needed for a fair trial in my opinion.
 
Murder, the degree is questionable. There is no justifying shooting an unarmed, unconscious person five times.
 
The pharmacist was probably in a state of shock,having been in fear for his life, then having just shot someone for the first time in his life, and having seen the blood & experienced the robbery etc. There is no way that pharmacist is guilty of murder.

After my break in, I was certain the guy was still coming to get me even hours after it happened. I was not in a normal state of mind. I didnt even feel safe with the police there. However irrational that may seem, in my mind I was CERTAIN he was still coming to get me that night, and I was terrified. I felt that way for months. Im still jumpy, years later.

That sort of fright def puts you into a survival mode. Its 100% unfair to say the pharmacist was "calm and rational" when he went to get that gun and shoot the kid. There is no way he was calm and rational after that. Its ridiculous even to say it. He was still not in his right mind. Im certain the jury will not convict him of murder.

Its so easy for people to judge and say what they would have done. I hope you never have the chance to see for yourself.
 
In FL, the second person would be charged with murder - if a death occurs during a felony - the people committing the original crime are charged. I wish more states would do the same thing.


Funny about the calls for a change of venue (even on the DIS boards) - usually those are called for when a person has a greater chance of being found guilty.

I think it would be hard to convict for murder - if the law says a shooting would be justified if a person felt in fear for his life - who can say what the pharmacist felt?
 


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