Security Deposit Mess -- advice?

[Kath2003]

For the sake of $150, I'd probably write a letter of protest and then if he was still adamant, I'd let it go. The sad fact is that renting pretty much always screws you over in one way or another.

I would have NEVER moved into an apartment in the state that the OP describes though - that should have been the first sign to run like hell

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

As far as the late fees -- I feel like there should be some kind of limitation. If he wants to deduct late fees he needs to tell me when I paid late, not months later. It's complicated by the fact that there are several months when the rent was several days late because there were problems with his account and the money wouldn't transfer. In those cases he told me he preferred that I wait until the problem was fixed, rather than mailing the money. I'm not sure I have documentation of which days were which.

As far as the utilities -- I'm getting a copy of the lease from the real estate agent who showed me the house, I know it says 1/2 the water. I'm confident it also doesn't say "if there are no tenants you have to pay 100%". I'm particularly confident because the air conditioning ran down there when it ran upstairs, so whether or not it was occupied it still had costs associated with it. Also several times he came to show the apartment downstairs and left the outside light on -- whose to know what inside lights were left on? In addition, while I agree that the water bill probably went down when the unit was unoccupied, I was also told that I should split snow removal and lawn with the downstairs tenant. Since there was no downstairs tenant I did the snow removal and paid for the lawn 100% on my own. I figure that evens us out.

As far as the condition -- I think it's relevant because the lease says the apartment must be returned in the condition I received it in. So, I feel like if there was trash in the backyard (and that is documented) when I came he can't charge me for trash that was there when I left. In fact I paid for that trash to be picked up, but I don't think I was obligated to do so, since the lease says to return in the same condition. Similarly, I paid someone to clean the whole house. Some of the dirt they cleaned was dirt that was there when I moved in. I paid someone to mow the lawn even though it wasn't mowed when I moved in. I did my part to return it in good condition.

As to why I took it in such bad condition -- I was desperate. I had signed a lease on another house, and the landlord went to do repairs after the previous tenant moved out and found significant mold behind the drywall. He was honest enough to tell me since I had mentioned that I had an asthmatic child. That made the house a nonoption. My apartment had already been leased to someone else, and finding a place that took dogs, on short notice, that was affordable (I live in a very expensive city), and went to the same school system was a huge challenge. This was by far the best place I could find.

 

[shortbun]

My mother was a landlord. She did everything in writing to protect everyone. You just need to find a copy of your lease. Too bad you didn't take pictures of the condition pre and post. I do that with everything I rent-even tools.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

For the sake of $150, I'd probably write a letter of protest and then if he was still adamant, I'd let it go. The sad fact is that renting pretty much always screws you over in one way or another.

I would have NEVER moved into an apartment in the state that the OP describes though - that should have been the first sign to run like hell

Unfortunately it's not $150 -- that's the dog deposit. It's $150 plus about $100 of utilities, plus a month's rent -- altogether about $2,200. Not small change.

As far as running -- I had nowhere to run to at that point.

 

[cm8]

Unfortunately it's not $150 -- that's the dog deposit. It's $150 plus about $100 of utilities, plus a month's rent -- altogether about $2,200. Not small change.

As far as running -- I had nowhere to run to at that point.

, I hope that you are able to recover your $$$!

 

[bicker]

As far as the late fees -- I feel like there should be some kind of limitation. If he wants to deduct late fees he needs to tell me when I paid late, not months later.

How can you prove he didn't? Because when push comes to shove, all that matters is what can be proved. That's the nature of resolving a dispute between different parties.

As far as the utilities -- I'm getting a copy of the lease from the real estate agent who showed me the house, I know it says 1/2 the water. I'm confident it also doesn't say "if there are no tenants you have to pay 100%".

Great news.

I'm particularly confident because the air conditioning ran down there when it ran upstairs, so whether or not it was occupied it still had costs associated with it.

That almost surely doesn't matter. My wife lived in a downstairs apartment in 1989, and even in the middle of summer she barely ever ran the air conditioner. She moved across down and in 1990 she was in an apartment on the third floor. The air conditioner ran 24/7, and it was barely comfortable enough to sleep by 11pm each night. It's so easy to equivocate the cost of air conditioning a lower-floor apartment that a dispute would never give that distinction much credence. It doesn't matter; you've got the lease; fwys, it shows exactly how things should be split up.

As far as the condition -- I think it's relevant because the lease says the apartment must be returned in the condition I received it in. So, I feel like if there was trash in the backyard (and that is documented) when I came he can't charge me for trash that was there when I left.

Earlier another poster said that you shouldn't move into an apartment that is in that condition. If it comes down to his word against yours, about what the move-in condition was, benefit of doubt would almost surely go to the perspective of that previous poster, and not in your favor. Again, it doesn't matter: If you have proof that the trash was removed and/or he doesn't have proof that he had to pay to have trash removed, then you're golden.

As to why I took it in such bad condition -- I was desperate.

So it makes sense that you end up with accepting a situation that might not leave you in the best situation when it comes to getting your security deposit when moving out. Understood.

, I hope that you are able to recover your $$$!

Yes, best of luck.

 

[Kath2003]

Unfortunately it's not $150 -- that's the dog deposit. It's $150 plus about $100 of utilities, plus a month's rent -- altogether about $2,200. Not small change.

As far as running -- I had nowhere to run to at that point.

You're probably going to wind up in court, so you need to assess how successful you will be.

1. Do you have any written agreeement regarding the utilities? Without it, you're unlikely to win that part.

2. Do you have any written agreement regarding your rent, or late payment of rent, or is there any state legislation regarding rent payments and late fees? Without it, you're unlikely to win that part.

3. Do you have any evidence to show the state of your home upon arrival, evidence to show that you carried out the cleaning and garden work, evidence to show that you left the house in good condition? Without it, you're unlikely to win that part.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

You're probably going to wind up in court, so you need to assess how successful you will be.

1. Do you have any written agreeement regarding the utilities? Without it, you're unlikely to win that part.

It's in the lease, which I'm getting a copy of.

2. Do you have any written agreement regarding your rent, or late payment of rent, or is there any state legislation regarding rent payments and late fees? Without it, you're unlikely to win that part.

It's in the lease, although the lease doesn't address the question of what to do if the transfer bounces back because he's over the allotted limit to receive money -- this happened several times. My question is whether there's a time limit for him to state he wants the money -- the couple of months where I paid the 2nd half on the 6th were many months ago.

3. Do you have any evidence to show the state of your home upon arrival, evidence to show that you carried out the cleaning and garden work, evidence to show that you left the house in good condition? Without it, you're unlikely to win that part.

Yes, I have a whole string of emails from me with his replies. As far as the cleaning, I did do it (or rather I paid someone to do it), as far as the yard eventually he paid for most of it, however the yard was unusable for the first two weeks. After those 2 weeks there were still items in the yard that never got picked up.

Thanks

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

That almost surely doesn't matter. My wife lived in a downstairs apartment in 1989, and even in the middle of summer she barely ever ran the air conditioner. She moved across down and in 1990 she was in an apartment on the third floor. The air conditioner ran 24/7, and it was barely comfortable enough to sleep by 11pm each night. It's so easy to equivocate the cost of air conditioning a lower-floor apartment that a dispute would never give that distinction much credence. It doesn't matter; you've got the lease; fwys, it shows exactly how things should be split up.
.

Actually we had an incident early on when the landlord told me the people downstairs were being frozen by the airconditioning and to please turn it down. I did, and within days they came up and offered me money to turn it back up. They said they had never complained and that it got really hot down there. My point is that it costs more to aircondition a 3 story house than a 2, and that those costs don't change because the downstairs is empty unless someone turns off the vents downstairs (which they didn't, I'm confident of that). So, if my costs don't change when the people downstairs move out (or they change a tiny amount, my electric bill was like $50 in winter, and $250 in summer), then why should I give him a break on his portion of the electric?

 

[Kath2003]

You're "getting a copy of" the lease? Why do you not have one already? How can you be sure it's the one you signed?

I think the fact that he didn't mention any of this rent previously could be used as evidence against the landlord in court, but then it's his word against yours.

You won't get anything for the yard as he did it within a reasonable time scale (2 weeks isn't bad - our grass in our last rental house was shoulder-height for over a month). If you were unhappy with the condition of the yard after this, you should have contacted the landlord in writing.

First rule of renting: write EVERYTHING down and send it to be signed for on delivery.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

You're "getting a copy of" the lease? Why do you not have one already? How can you be sure it's the one you signed?

I think the fact that he didn't mention any of this rent previously could be used as evidence against the landlord in court, but then it's his word against yours.

You won't get anything for the yard as he did it within a reasonable time scale (2 weeks isn't bad - our grass in our last rental house was shoulder-height for over a month). If you were unhappy with the condition of the yard after this, you should have contacted the landlord in writing.

First rule of renting: write EVERYTHING down and send it to be signed for on delivery.

I'm getting the copy from MY real estate agent, so I'm confident he won't doctor it. My copy is buried in the boxes from the move -- I have not yet bee able to find it.

I'm looking to get anything for the yard. I am however, arguing that he shouldn't be able to deduct from my security deposit on the grounds that the yard wasn't "perfect" because it was far better than it was when I moved in. The issue was that there were some bags of trash that I left out for the trash man (I moved out Tuesday, trash man came around 6:00 Wed. a.m.), and the trash man didn't take. I discovered this Wed. evening when we did the walk through and hired someone to carry them away on Thursday. He is arguing that that wasn't soon enough and that he paid someone to do it sooner (although when I arrived to pay "my" guy he had a truck full of what looked like my trash -- hard to tell though). My point is that even if he did pay someone on Thursday a.m. to move it, some bags of trash, by the trash cans for a day and a half doesn't compare to no use of the lawn for 2 weeks, plus trash (e.g. old bed rails, and old box spring, an old cooler) that was there throughout the time I stayed there, and that I returned it in the same or better condition that I received it.

 

[Kath2003]

I'm looking to get anything for the yard. I am however, arguing that he shouldn't be able to deduct from my security deposit on the grounds that the yard wasn't "perfect" because it was far better than it was when I moved in. The issue was that there were some bags of trash that I left out for the trash man (I moved out Tuesday, trash man came around 6:00 Wed. a.m.), and the trash man didn't take. I discovered this Wed. evening when we did the walk through and hired someone to carry them away on Thursday. He is arguing that that wasn't soon enough and that he paid someone to do it sooner (although when I arrived to pay "my" guy he had a truck full of what looked like my trash -- hard to tell though). My point is that even if he did pay someone on Thursday a.m. to move it, some bags of trash, by the trash cans for a day and a half doesn't compare to no use of the lawn for 2 weeks, plus trash (e.g. old bed rails, and old box spring, an old cooler) that was there throughout the time I stayed there, and that I returned it in the same or better condition that I received it.

I know it's frustrating, but I don't think you'll get anything for that. If he left trash there whilst you were living there, you had no obligation to move that and should have contacted him. But you DID have an obligation to move your trash and it's simply bad luck that the trash service didn't pick it up as expected.

How much is he charging you for this trash? It sounds to me like you need to choose your battles here and fight him only on the ones you're likely to win. This is why people want to buy their own homes - because as the tenant, you're always the bottom of the food chain...

 

[bicker]

... So, if my costs don't change when the people downstairs move out (or they change a tiny amount, my electric bill was like $50 in winter, and $250 in summer), then why should I give him a break on his portion of the electric?

I think you missed the point of the message you replied to, which was that none of the details matter. All that matters is what the lease says.

 

[Imzadi]

altogether about $2,200. Not small change.

Take him to Small Claims Court. Generally, they try to make you go to arbitration first with a mediator, before going to the judge, or in most cases, to avoid meeting before a judge. They prefer this as the docket is so clogged and most cases CAN be arbitrated without a judge.

Arbitration is basically a meeting room where you & the landlord sit with an mediator. You both present your evidence, receipts, lease, etc. The purpose is to negotiate, if possible, because if the judge has to make a ruling, it may NOT be in either party's favor. This here, is where the landlord may fold, if he can't present his case, or will knock down how much he's saying you owe him.

Landlords get good at sizing people up, for who will fight for the money and who probably won't. It ends being easy money for them when the tenants don't fight them. Yours will be making $2,200!