Security Concern

[TDC Nala]

He may be a legal adult, but does he have guardianship of himself? Or do his parents have guardianship of him? If his parents have guardianship, then I'd say the father is the responsible one in this situation. To me, it's no different than being responsible for your minor child.

That would be a legal question as to whether or not his parents have legal guardianship and responsibility for him. Nobody here apparently knows whether they do or not. If they don't, he's a legal adult.

 

[miatamel]

Looking at the Autism at Sea website, if the Dennis posted there is in fact the individual you had difficulty with, I can see why you are frustrated and I don't think you are going to get far by interacting with the group or sending follow-up information to them. (They include Dennis in both the Staff picture and as a participant in others. I don't know for sure, but seems Dennis is given special status even within their group.)

This is what concerned me and nobody mentioned it until you did. On the facebook page, he is clearly shown wearing a "staff" shirt. Is he a member of the staff or is he a cruiser with autism? If he is being allowed to be both, therefore having unfettered access because he's wearing "staff" shirt, I think that is a huge issue within this group.

(I worded this poorly but hopefully it makes sense).

 

[DVC Jen]

I'm truly sorry for what the OP's 15 year old daughter was going through or felt. I have a 14 year old daughter that went through a similar experience this past summer. She was a camp counselor at a special needs camp this summer. A 25 year old special needs man was doing pretty much the same as what you've described on here. I won't go into all the detail, but the situation was dealt with.

I'm the mom of not only my typical 14 year old girl, but also 3 boys all on the autism spectrum (ages 17, 11, and 6). This thread makes me sick to my stomach. We will be cruising for the first time in January, I'm now petrified as to how my boys will be judged before anyone even gets to know them.

Did the father of 'Dennis' handle the situation appropriately? I'd say no.....But I feel this thread could make it difficult for anyone traveling with special needs. I'm probably not getting my point across right at the moment because I don't even know how to put it into words. Dennis and his dad are giving all of us dealing with special needs a bad rap. This dad's 'handling' of the situation is more of an isolated incident and not the typical....

All I can say is that my biggest concern was what to do with my oldest son, he's very high functioning, very caring, and would give the shirt off his back. My worry is that he could be taken advantage of by a stranger. He's too trusting. Then for my younger 2 it's been the concern of having a veranda, and could they go "overboard".

I just fear this type of thread could cause a problem for any person traveling that has autism, or any other developmental disability. Even with what Dennis has done, his name should never have been used on here. We all know who he is now, and what he looks like. I don't know him, and have no affiliation with autism on the seas. We are traveling as an individual family. I cannot even imagine coming back from my cruise, logging onto the disboards and seeing a story about one of my boys (with their name,picture, link, etc) posted on here. I'd be mortified! And no, not for the reason Dennis is on here....I just mean, what if one of my boys are doing something out of the 'norm'?

I now wonder if I did the right thing by joining the meet thread on here? Maybe we should just go as ourselves and not part of the dis? I'm probably not making a lot of sense, this thread as me emotionally all over the place at the moment.

By the way, autism is not a mental illness.

I can totally understand where you are coming from. However - with that said.. I truly believe that you will NOT encounter anything like this - simply because you have already shown that you are a responsible parent and would do what you needed to so your family was not in the same kind of situation.

Dennis, whom I feel is also a victim here (of lack of parental supervision and limits), obviously does not have a parent/s that shows that type of responsibility to Dennis or the other passengers on the ship.

Dennis should not have been left to roam the ship freely regardless of his age. Through no fault of his own he is not able to distinguish right from wrong or make socially correct decisions. His father and or other caretakers should know better.

They have every right to be on a cruise - however they(caretakers/parents - responsible parties) do NOT have a right to be so irresponsible that another passenger - especially a 15 yr old girl is made to feel uncomfortable or have her parents fear for her safety.

I can tell by your post - you are NOT that type of parent. Autism on the Seas dropped the ball. DCL dropped the ball.

Go - enjoy your cruise and just keep doing what you are doing - and everything will be OK.

 

[budamacdvcr]

I think allowing an 11 year old into OC because they have the mental capacity of a 7 year old (as long as the disability has NO potential for violence). I think its a great idea...when ALL parties involved are MINORS.

The minute you mix minors with adults you are just asking for trouble.
On that thought, I am actually going to write to DCL about ensuring that the rules are modified to include this.[/QUOTE]

From what I have read in this thread, this is at the heart of the matter and though I am a big disney fan, DCL could not have messed this up worse if they tried - a 23 yr old male allowed in the Teen Club, seriously? Their policy of letting different aged children / minors participate in different clubs because they are close in age and to be with their siblings is the basis for this flexible policy but not attended for adults with disabilities IMO, and if it was, DCL needs to change this.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

He may be a legal adult, but does he have guardianship of himself? Or do his parents have guardianship of him? If his parents have guardianship, then I'd say the father is the responsible one in this situation. To me, it's no different than being responsible for your minor child.

Just my 2 cent's,

Whether he is under guardianship of himself or his parent's doesn't really change anything.
He is a participant of an organized group on a cruise.
Given that he has Autism, and from the OP's report, he obviously doesn't know boundaries and the organizer of the group should have taken action to ensure his behavior was corrected and monitored after it was first reported. The fact he is the organizers son shouldn't be a factor.
The fact that he has been seen wearing a staff t-shirt only makes the responsibility of other other staff to correct and monitor his behavior more important, and then bring's the professionalism of the organization into question given that one of their "staff" has behaved in such a bad way, and his behavior seem's to have not changed.

DCL have definitely dropped the ball in this case as well.
The Security Officers would have handled the situation in they way they thought best on the first occasion, and the situation would have been raised and discussed with the Staff Captain. His opinion on what to do in any further occurrences would have played a part afterwards as well, if not just his, but the Captain.

No-one should feel threatened or scared by another Guest's actions in any circumstance, disability or not, and the situation should have been handled a lot better IMO.

Ex Techie

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Just my 2 cent's,

Whether he is under guardianship of himself or his parent's doesn't really change anything.
He is a participant of an organized group on a cruise.
Given that he has Autism, and from the OP's report, he obviously doesn't know boundaries and the organizer of the group should have taken action to ensure his behavior was corrected and monitored after it was first reported. The fact he is the organizers son shouldn't be a factor.
The fact that he has been seen wearing a staff t-shirt only makes the responsibility of other other staff to correct and monitor his behavior more important, and then bring's the professionalism of the organization into question given that one of their "staff" has behaved in such a bad way, and his behavior seem's to have not changed.

DCL have definitely dropped the ball in this case as well.
The Security Officers would have handled the situation in they way they thought best on the first occasion, and the situation would have been raised and discussed with the Staff Captain. His opinion on what to do in any further occurrences would have played a part afterwards as well, if not just his, but the Captain.

No-one should feel threatened or scared by another Guest's actions in any circumstance, disability or not, and the situation should have been handled a lot better IMO.

Ex Techie

I totally agree!....AKK

 

[clten]

I'm the mom of not only my typical 14 year old girl, but also 3 boys all on the autism spectrum (ages 17, 11, and 6). This thread makes me sick to my stomach. We will be cruising for the first time in January, I'm now petrified as to how my boys will be judged before anyone even gets to know them.

I understand your position but I hope you can take a step back and see that noone was judging this boy simply for his disability. (And had the OP known this individual could be identified so easily by a first name, I don't think they would have used it.) I, and I believe the others who have posted on this thread, are more disturbed by how the organization who was with this boy (which apparently included his own father) handled the situation when it was presented to them. The community on the ship is a microcosm of real life, there will be good and bad, those that will judge and those that will not. This is definately an aberration rather than the norm. I think if you post to other families that have cruised with an autistic child you will get a totally different picture of the experience. Just like you wouldn't want to have your children pre-judged, don't pre-judge your shipmates. Many will be very wonderful people and I know the crew will do what they can to make it a special trip for your family. Personally, I have no issue with any person with a disability. But I do have an issue with this group. The point of having "staff" cruising is to make sure situations like this don't happen.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

Assuming that the OP's account is true (and I belief they are being honest about the impact this had on them)it's concerning on many levels.

One being that parents of autistic children who are booking though AOS, seem to be paying for "STAFF" to help supervise their children in the various clubs to not only help them feel secure but to coach them in their interactions with others.

If the "STAFF" are having issues with their own self regulation then it negates the whole purpose.

 

[luv2sleep]

I think what is also sad is that no one sought out to protect this young man's best interests. When this first came up DCL and the travel organization should have provided better supervision. That way it might have just been one incident versus several, we wouldn't be talking about him, know his name and there would be less apprehension and potential ignorance when it comes to people with disabilities.

I don't think that anyone is blaming the young man involved at all. At least I hope not.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

I think allowing an 11 year old into OC because they have the mental capacity of a 7 year old (as long as the disability has NO potential for violence). I think its a great idea...when ALL parties involved are MINORS.

The minute you mix minors with adults you are just asking for trouble.
On that thought, I am actually going to write to DCL about ensuring that the rules are modified to include this.

From what I have read in this thread, this is at the heart of the matter and though I am a big disney fan, DCL could not have messed this up worse if they tried - a 23 yr old male allowed in the Teen Club, seriously? Their policy of letting different aged children / minors participate in different clubs because they are close in age and to be with their siblings is the basis for this flexoible policy but not attended for adults with disabilities IMO, and if it was, DCL needs to change this.[/QUOTE]

From what I am gathering, Autism Of The Seas is suppose to provide an extra set of hands, eyes and SKILL for families cruising with children of various abilities. I think the 'STAFF' are suppose to shadow the children of the clients who are using the clubs. They are not suppose to be participants in club activities but supplemental supervision on top of CM's.

 

[MamaG]

I want to repeat as others have, that I think the program allowing disabled youth into programs and allowing flexibility is great. We spoke to someone at DCL today and stressed this as well.

What is not okay is having a 23 year old staff member (paid or on a free cruise I'm sure) have access to the teen area, then allowed to continue the behavior unchecked. We thought having security deal with the father would suffice and I believe even they were taken aback that it didn't help.

This man (he is NOT a boy) does not appear or act in any way autistic or disabled. That is likely why a bartender or others wouldn't think to pause at serving him or treating him as a man. The head of security (Nick) even told us that he spoke to the man himself and did not get the impression he was disabled.

It is a good thing to be high functioning, but if he is handling other autistic teens himself and goes unchecked, then it is not just my child that was at risk. Everyone's children will continue to be at risk on every cruise he's on.

I would not worry at all about disabled children being treated differently, nor would I ever share a child's picture. This is a man. A legally adult male with the full physical capabilities of one to overpower a child easily. This is very different.

Right now we're still working to try and get policy changed or some re-assurance that both autistic and non-disabled children can safely travel on Disney cruises. That seems to actually be a bit difficult...we would love to cruise again but can't do that without assurance a policy or procedure has changed and I would feel the worst if I knew this happened to another girl --- heaven forbid a handicapped girl put in this man's care that might not be able to articulate well what is done to her. I am up at night worrying over that part especially now...

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

MamaG,

Have any of the other cruise lines AOTS sail on replied or commented on your report.

It would be really sad to hear that this has happened before or could happen again.

I hope your daughter is OK now, and this horrible series of interactions with this confused person haven't caused any long term anxiety issues.

All the best

Ex Techie

 

[mmouse37]

Closing this now....all opinions have been voiced and now it is between the OP and DCL.

MJ