Sea World Profits Soar by 300%

[ArmchairDetective]

Things....

I'm not actively calling for a boycott against SeaWorld. If you want to go there, that's your choice.

My question to you, regarding Epcot, is do you feel that the dolphins kept at Epcot are the reason people go there?

To be 100% honest with you I didn't even know, until this thread, that Disney kept dolphins in Epcot. We'll not be attending that exhibit and we'll likely talk to Guest Services about it and make our opinions known.

Can you point me to some articles about Disney's breeding practices?

 

[nugov2]

I'm not actively calling for a boycott against SeaWorld. If you want to go there, that's your choice.

My question to you, regarding Epcot, is do you feel that the dolphins kept at Epcot are the reason people go there?

To be 100% honest with you I didn't even know, until this thread, that Disney kept dolphins in Epcot. We'll not be attending that exhibit and we'll likely talk to Guest Services about it and make our opinions known.

Can you point me to some articles about Disney's breeding practices?

I was referring to the fact that you won't visit SW, but will Epcot. Yes, I absolutely think that the Living Seas/Nemo/Dolphins In depth tour draws people to Epcot(and the fact that you can drink..I mean what else is there to do)

I don't know of any specific articles about WDW breeding practices and how ethical they are other than that they do, but like I said they are only one bad incident from having their own documentary and then having all their dirty laundry about what the "suits" have decided are for the best interest of the park instead of the animals. I would think until Blackfish the public relations description of SW practices were all warm and fuzzy the same way that AK/Epcot promotes their breeding practices. I do know the dolphins in captivity at Epcot have been bred in the past. They also held a license to capture dolphins from the wild for the living seas exhibit when the original dolphins died(though I would be surprised if they ever tried to do that again with all of the negative publicity). There is also record of one of the dolphins being responsible for the death of another dolphin at the Living Seas. Just google dolphins being bred at Epcot and you will find several articles. They are old...but so was most of the footage getting people upset about SW.

ETA: that had the Kaite incident(the dolphin killed by the "rowdy" pen mate) in combination to losing 6 dolphins in 5 years happened today Epcot would be under the same microscope that SW is

 

[MILLERTIME31]

I miss the FREE beer too, even if it is Bud.

 

[freediverdude]

I think part of the difference between keeping the orcas and keeping other animals like giraffes at AK, is that in AK's case, the animals on their large savannah can roam probably up to a couple of miles, the enclosure is that large- although I know they keep certain species apart. They just lure them to certain spots with food, but it seems more like what their experience would be in the wild. You just can't build a pool big enough to simulate that for a whale or dolphin.

 

[nugov2]

I think part of the difference between keeping the orcas and keeping other animals like giraffes at AK, is that in AK's case, the animals on their large savannah can roam probably up to a couple of miles, the enclosure is that large- although I know they keep certain species apart. They just lure them to certain spots with food, but it seems more like what their experience would be in the wild. You just can't build a pool big enough to simulate that for a whale or dolphin.

True to a certain point. It is slightly better than the Orca tanks. Giraffes are actually know to travel in a habitat to up 175 miles and close proximity to other giraffes in captivity can cause them stress and a whole host of medical problems. They are anxious animals. Giraffes in the wild will bond with some in the herd and then after time bond with different ones. Similar to human relationships. If there are only a few in captivity they are forced to bond with the same few. Again, I don't know how many are kept at WDW, but similar to the orcas if they are not happy with their "pals" they are not really free to break free from the group. The habitat at AK is less than 10%(maybe just 2%) of the size of their typical habitat in the wild.

 

[North of Mouse]

Sea World is what it is, a theme park revolving around captive sea life. Those that have problems with this, but not with Ak, or zoos, or petting farms, or circuses, are hypocrites. Sea world puts millions of dollars into research and millions more into the health of their animals. You can say it is wrong and refuse to visit, that is what makes this country great, but my daughter would not know what an Orca, dolphin, seal, walrus are if not for this institution, and by it existing it brings about awareness for all these animals.

Great post. You can't pick and choose which creatures are "worthy" of not being in captivity. Someone going to AK but boycotting SW is a hypocrite.

Probably next to none. Who goes to Sea World for a band?

Not us!

To be 100% honest with you I didn't even know, until this thread, that Disney kept dolphins in Epcot. We'll not be attending that exhibit and we'll likely talk to Guest Services about it and make our opinions known.

Disney doesn't really care what your opinions are (or anyones). Sure, they thank you for your input to your face. You vote with your $$$'s - portions of our admissions, etc. goes to the upkeep of the parks (animals, etc.). If I felt as strongly as you seem to, I would not be going to the parks period! Do you also not like DAK, AKL, zoos, etc.??? Seems a little hypocritical to me to give them $$$'s for something you don't even believe in.

As for us, PETA or any other activists (arm chair or not) will only make us enjoy our times at those parks more - to each their own - thankfully the American way!

 

[ArmchairDetective]

Do you also not like DAK, AKL, zoos, etc.???

I've been to a zoo as a child. I've never been to DAK or AKL.

As for us, PETA or any other activists (arm chair or not) will only make us enjoy our times at those parks more - to each their own - thankfully the American way!

Now I'm an activist? What a riot!

 

[nugov2]

I've been to a zoo as a child. I've never been to DAK or AKL.



Now I'm an activist? What a riot!

FWIW,I don't think that. I think it just comes off as you were against certain practices at SW so will not support them by giving them your dollars...aquatic animals in captivity and breeding that are also done at parks you will support(Epcot) with your dollars, but be sure to inform them while you are there you don't support their practices. For me, I see this feeling from many people and I am truly curious why since it is a common phenomenon, not that I think it makes it a bad decision. It again is like saying I boycott all companies that harm dolphins while catching their tuna, but will support this one really popular and yummy tuna company who will only harm dolphins in 25% of their catches, but I will be sure to email the company I would like to see that number drop.

For me I will attend these parks even though I am not a fan of animals in captivity b/c I feel they do a lot of good. Though I hope as they learn what practices are harmful they really do keep the best interest of the animal above the bottom line. As long as they are not physically abusing animals like many circuses(which I will not attend).

 

[ArmchairDetective]

I think it just comes off as you were against certain practices at SW so will not support them by giving them your dollars...aquatic animals in captivity and breeding that are also done at parks you will support(Epcot) with your dollars, but be sure to inform them while you are there you don't support their practices.

You and I have been on this merry-go-round before. I've never been to EPCOT and didn't know they keep dolphins in captivity. Also, how does Disney breed 4 male dolphins? This would be like a vegetarian ordering soup, having read the ingredients, and finding out later that the broth was made with bacon. The trip was booked long before I found out!

I've never heard one person say, "Boy, golly gee, I can't wait to get to Epcot to see the Dolphins." I'm going mostly for the flower and garden show and world showcase.

And again... if you want to go to SeaWorld, then so be it. Many people still will. I was just pointing out the fact that you can go see these amazing animals in their natural habitat.

 

[nugov2]

You and I have been on this merry-go-round before. I've never been to EPCOT and didn't know they keep dolphins in captivity. Also, how does Disney breed 4 male dolphins? This would be like a vegetarian ordering soup, having read the ingredients, and finding out later that the broth was made with bacon. The trip was booked long before I found out!

I've never heard one person say, "Boy, golly gee, I can't wait to get to Epcot to see the Dolphins." I'm going mostly for the flower and garden show and world showcase.

And again... if you want to go to SeaWorld, then so be it. Many people still will. I was just pointing out the fact that you can go see these amazing animals in their natural habitat.

They actually had intentions to breed the dolphins and tried to make a deal with the navy to "borrow" some of their dolphins, but I was referring to WDW breeding animals...not just one specific animal. Again, I feel breeding all animals in captivity can cause problems unless they are endangered, not just that breeding aquatic animals can cause problems.

I apologize if you are offended, I was really just trying to get your reasoning why you still plan to go...if you had gone and found out after the fact I wouldn't have been asking. SW does have a lot more to offer than their park than just the Orcas.

 

[nugov2]

This would be like a vegetarian ordering soup, having read the ingredients, and finding out later that the broth was made with bacon. The trip was booked long before I found out!

Actually it is more like ordering the soup and the person at the table tells you the broth is made with bacon, but you still eat it anyway b/c of the delicious mushroom in it and your reason is you didn't know before you ordered otherwise you wouldn't have ordered it. You could have changed your order to fit your diet, but decided the delicious mushrooms were too appealing so you make an exception this time

If I was at the table next to you I wouldn't judge you negatively, but I would be curious as to why you did it. If you discussed it with you I would even ask and continue to have a discussion with you about it in a civil way.

 

[ArmchairDetective]

As long as they are not physically abusing animals like many circuses(which I will not attend).

Female orcas typically have 1 pup every five years in the wild and are not mature to reproduce until they are about 15. SeaWorld impregnates whales as early as 4 years old and some are impregnated repeatedly if they produce stillborns. Some whales in SeaWorld's possession are having pups every 1-2 years.

If you don't think that is physical abuse, then what is your definition? I think it's pretty foul.

 

[Borishack]

True to a certain point. It is slightly better than the Orca tanks. Giraffes are actually know to travel in a habitat to up 175 miles and close proximity to other giraffes in captivity can cause them stress and a whole host of medical problems. They are anxious animals. Giraffes in the wild will bond with some in the herd and then after time bond with different ones. Similar to human relationships. If there are only a few in captivity they are forced to bond with the same few. Again, I don't know how many are kept at WDW, but similar to the orcas if they are not happy with their "pals" they are not really free to break free from the group. The habitat at AK is less than 10%(maybe just 2%) of the size of their typical habitat in the wild.

We stayed at a villa in AKL back in November, with a savanna view. On two nights we had long discussions with some of the animal conservation CMs that are present down in the viewing areas. Relative to the morale and behavior of animals, for what it's worth they biggest issue they shared with us was problems with zebras. They said several of the latter in the central savanna area had reputations as bullies and occasionally one had been isolated in a holding area because of its behavior.

We did enjoy seeing a month old giraffe that had just been released from the animal husbandry area; she was visible on several nights (including one where we were eating at Saana) prancing around under the watch of her mother.

To summarize, yes, we're laypeople, but what we saw of the giraffes at AKL was 180 degrees away from what any reasonable person would could call evidence of stress or anxiety.

 

[nugov2]

Female orcas typically have 1 pup every five years in the wild and are not mature to reproduce until they are about 15. SeaWorld impregnates whales as early as 4 years old and some are impregnated repeatedly if they produce stillborns. Some whales in SeaWorld's possession are having pups every 1-2 years.

If you don't think that is physical abuse, then what is your definition? I think it's pretty foul.

I don't agree with this practice at all. I previously stated I hope many of these practices change at SW and all places with animals. Animals are bred in captivity at all these facilities in ways that IMO are not natural. Again, I just look at them all with equal weight and don't put more weight on once species. Like I have previously stated, in a perfect world all animals who are not endangered or injured would be free to live in the wild.

 

[nugov2]

We stayed at a villa in AKL back in November, with a savanna view. On two nights we had long discussions with some of the animal conservation CMs that are present down in the viewing areas. Relative to the morale and behavior of animals, for what it's worth they biggest issue they shared with us was problems with zebras. They said several of the latter in the central savanna area had reputations as bullies and occasionally one had been isolated in a holding area because of its behavior.

We did enjoy seeing a month old giraffe that had just been released from the animal husbandry area; she was visible on several nights (including one where we were eating at Saana) prancing around under the watch of her mother.

To summarize, yes, we're laypeople, but what we saw of the giraffes at AKL was 180 degrees away from what any reasonable person would could call evidence of stress or anxiety.

I don't doubt for a second the caregivers at almost all places that keep animals love and care for them. With that said, I don't think that the people who work there would indicated any issues regardless. I also don't believe as laypeople we would know if the giraffes were suffering from anxiety or stress. Just like we laypeople think dolphins are always smiling. I don't boycott AK, SW, zoos etc. Again, was trying to gain perspective on why one would be against SW and not other parks, more specifically Epcot where there they do force animals to interact with humans(which were more specifically related to the SW boycott issues). I was just pointing out some of the issues at AK due to negligence and the fact that while the pens seem large(reasons people gave for not including AK in their boycott) in reality they are still quite small just like the Orcas and that their are other species besides Orcas that have a long history of documented problems of being in captivity...giraffes.

 

[old lady]

I am glad all that bad publicity they spread about sea world did not affect them so they can educated the world about sea animals.

 

[Kpskyman]

It seems this debate, along with gun control, abortion, and drug legalization will never end. I support SW & DC as they are enjoyable and educational.

 

[Castle2Castle]

I'm not going to worry about reading every single response of The Great Orca Debate -- especially since that wasn't the original topic -- but I think it's a bit ironic ("don't ya think?") that many people decrying Sea World probably couldn't care less about orcas were it not for Sea World making them so popular in the first place.

 

[Borishack]

I'm not going to worry about reading every single response of The Great Orca Debate -- especially since that wasn't the original topic -- but I think it's a bit ironic ("don't ya think?") that many people decrying Sea World probably couldn't care less about orcas were it not for Sea World making them so popular in the first place.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

I'm not going to worry about reading every single response of The Great Orca Debate -- especially since that wasn't the original topic -- but I think it's a bit ironic ("don't ya think?") that many people decrying Sea World probably couldn't care less about orcas were it not for Sea World making them so popular in the first place.

EXACTLY. You said it perfectly.

In the past week or so, Sea World rescued a juvenile loggerhead that my friend's DH retrieved from the river (he has a fighting chance!), and another manatee calf. Those are just the ones I know about and just in my area. Rag on Sea World all you want, but they do amazing rescue/rehab work in my area and I will always be a fan and a passholder, and my kids will attend summer camp there for as long as they remain interested.