Screaming lap babies

[justhat]

Pacifier Use:

For reasons that as yet are unknown, research has conclusively shown that using a pacifier at sleep time (following a breast feeding or bottle feeding session) can significantly reduce the risk of SIDS during the first year of life. The evidence in this regard has been mounting for some time, and it is now recommended as an option for parents. The following guidelines are offered to ensure the best outcome:


1. Breastfed infants should not be offered a pacifier until one month of age to ensure that breastfeeding is firmly established.
2. Pacifiers should not be forced on babies that reject them.
3. Pacifiers do not need to be reinserted once the baby falls asleep.
4. Pacifiers should not be coated in any sweet solution.
5. Do not use a string or other device to attach pacifiers around your baby’s neck or to clothing.

Experts feel that quite possibly the stimulation of the sucking reflex by the pacifier keeps babies from falling into a deep sleep and heightens their arousal response throughout the night.

To address concerns in regard to breastfeeding and long-term dental problems, the AAP carefully evaluated existing evidence on these issues. The evidence that it can help reduce the risk of SIDS far outweighed evidence that it might interfere with successful breastfeeding or cause long-term dental complications. In fact, according to the American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry, non-nutritive sucking habits are considered normal and, in general, sucking habits in children to the age of five are unlikely to cause any long term problems.

ETA: I believe the AAP says 6 months for the SIDS prevention.

ETA again: I was wrong, it is 12 months.

"Whatever the reason for the apparent protective effect, the AAP is recommending offering infants a pacifier at bedtime and naptime for the first year of life. The pacifier doesn't need to be reinserted if it falls out during sleep. And don't coat the pacifier with any sweet substances to entice the baby to take it. Breast-fed infants should not be given a pacifier until breast-feeding is well-established, usually at one month, the academy said."
http://www.mainegeneral.org/19003.cfm

 

[tartemis]

I'm sure she was not, but why not use a bottle? Our ped has a 2yo and one on the way and flies often, NEVER without a carseat for her daughter. And those she breastfeeds, she works so she obviously pumps and the baby gets bottles. She's 2yo and weaned while the mom was pregnant with #2, at 17 months. So she's a big advocate of nursing, extended nursing, but also carseats and safety. You can still feed a baby a bottle in a carseat and it has the same effect as nursing.

My daughter wouldn't take a bottle** -- although, to be perfectly honest, it probably wouldn't have changed my view on her being a lap baby or not. And while I am way too familiar with pumping since I had to return to work after a 6 month maternity leave but I nursed until I was pregnant with #2 at 15 months, I would imagine that your average exclusively breastfeeding mom would not have a pump and/or try to introduce bottles just for the 1 or 2 times they may fly with the child.

**I was terrified returning to work that my daughter would starve when I returned back to work because she wouldn't take a bottle -- we tried everything. In the end, we just ended up introducing a regular cup at 6 months and it worked amazingly well.

 

[justhat]

My daughter wouldn't take a bottle** -- although, to be perfectly honest, it probably wouldn't have changed my view on her being a lap baby or not. And while I am way too familiar with pumping since I had to return to work after a 6 month maternity leave but I nursed until I was pregnant with #2 at 15 months, I would imagine that your average exclusively breastfeeding mom would not have a pump and/or try to introduce bottles just for the 1 or 2 times they may fly with the child.

Really? I exclusively breastfed my kids for 6 months, then once we started solids at that point I nursed in conjunction till 21 and 23 months (1st and 2nd kid respectively. I bought a breastpump before my 1st was even born and I did not work after my kids were born so I was home with them pretty much all the time. But on some occasions, not just flights, I did need to pump. Like a wedding I was in when my son was 5 weeks old and stayed with my mom for several hours. Or a bridal shower I attended when my daughter was 7 weeks old, and though she came along, nursing in the dress I had on wasn't really possible outside of the bathroom, which I refused to o. Or when I took my 2yo to see Elmo live and my 4 month old stayed home with Daddy. Or just to have some pumped milk in the freezer in case I needed to be away from the house longer than I thought, though I can't even say that happened, I just liked to be prepared.

But I think your case is somewhat of an exception, as I think many breastfed babies take bottles when necessary and that many moms who breastfeed can still use a carseat in flight if they so desire.

 

[tartemis]

My husband is a physician and has never thought we should remove our kids from their carseats to nurse them (or me nurse them ), he was totally fine with a bottle of pumped milk *if* in fact they needed it.

Regarding the pacifiers, you do know that there is a correlation between pacifier use while sleeping and a reduced risk of SIDS and that the AAP recommends pacifier use as a step to preventing SIDS, right? So I fail to see what is wrong with their use.

Re pacifiers -- If you are extremely disciplined about their use (i.e., only use them in very limited circumstances) and get rid of them really early on, there is probably nothing wrong with them. But, I think the vast majority of people abuse their use.

Re SIDS, there is so much conflicting research out there right now that it wouldn't be enough for me to introduce a pacifier. Plus, I'm already a SIDS prevention nightmare since I co-slept for 6 months and then put a bumper on the crib when she moved into it. (FWIW, my daughter would never sleep in her crib until we added the bumper -- she would sleep with the top of her head jammed up against it, so I think it just made her more comfortable.)

 

[tinkermom23]

I also think that pacifiers shouldn't be used by children -- although I'm not going to call you neglectful for doing so.

... Pacifiers are most beneficial to those over the age of 18, or at least old enough to drive.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm sure she was not, but why not use a bottle? Our ped has a 2yo and one on the way and flies often, NEVER without a carseat for her daughter. And those she breastfeeds, she works so she obviously pumps and the baby gets bottles. She's 2yo and weaned while the mom was pregnant with #2, at 17 months. So she's a big advocate of nursing, extended nursing, but also carseats and safety. You can still feed a baby a bottle in a carseat and it has the same effect as nursing.

That's the route I'd go - IF the baby would take a bottle or paci. My older DD would only take a bottle if I was out of sight/earshot and didn't take a pacifier. My younger DD won't accept any sort of artificial nipple at all. I was sick in bed for a couple days when she was about 5mo and DH ended up introducing a sippy cup so he could feed her without waking me.

Oddly enough, she took to the sippy like it was no big deal and has been using it anytime she's with DH or Grandma ever since. She's an odd one, though. When I tried giving her a pacifier after reading the whole SIDS risk thing she refused it, but when she started crawling and found one in her toy box it became a favorite toy, though not used as intended. She's 1 now and still doesn't seem to understand how it is supposed to work - she holds the nipple and chews the shield & handle, and no matter how many times I turn it around for her, she goes right back to what she wants to do with it.

 

[justhat]

Re pacifiers -- If you are extremely disciplined about their use (i.e., only use them in very limited circumstances) and get rid of them really early on, there is probably nothing wrong with them. But, I think the vast majority of people abuse their use.

Re SIDS, there is so much conflicting research out there right now that it wouldn't be enough for me to introduce a pacifier. Plus, I'm already a SIDS prevention nightmare since I co-slept for 6 months and then put a bumper on the crib when she moved into it. (FWIW, my daughter would never sleep in her crib until we added the bumper -- she would sleep with the top of her head jammed up against it, so I think it just made her more comfortable.)

My daughter coslept too, and both kids had crib bumpers (though my daughter never used the crib...) and the SIDS research didn't come out till she was past that point anyway (in fact, I think my son was around 6 months when the new statement was released), but I don't think there is much to dispute that there is a correlation between babies who use them nightly and a lower SIDS rate.

I don't really see how you can abuse a pacifier, but if you mean 4yos with them, then I agree it is not necessary at that point. But for a baby on a flight to suck and relieve pressure, I think they are totally fine.

 

[justhat]

That's the route I'd go - IF the baby would take a bottle or paci. My older DD would only take a bottle if I was out of sight/earshot and didn't take a pacifier. My younger DD won't accept any sort of artificial nipple at all. I was sick in bed for a couple days when she was about 5mo and DH ended up introducing a sippy cup so he could feed her without waking me.

Oddly enough, she took to the sippy like it was no big deal and has been using it anytime she's with DH or Grandma ever since. She's an odd one, though. When I tried giving her a pacifier after reading the whole SIDS risk thing she refused it, but when she started crawling and found one in her toy box it became a favorite toy, though not used as intended. She's 1 now and still doesn't seem to understand how it is supposed to work - she holds the nipple and chews the shield & handle, and no matter how many times I turn it around for her, she goes right back to what she wants to do with it.

I would think a sippy cup would be a fine alternative to a bottle. Same sucking principle. Neither of my kids 'got' how to work a sippy cup so we were on straws by 6 months, but still sucking so I imagine the no-spill straw cups would work too.

And this will sound weird, but both of mine would take bottles from my husband (or mom) ONLY if they held it under their arms so essentially like they were nursing, if that makes sense. From me though, they'd take a bottle anywhere/way without issue. I know most kids are the opposite, but mine seemed to just be concerned about who was feeding them, not so much how.

 

[Colleen27]

Really? I exclusively breastfed my kids for 6 months, then once we started solids at that point I nursed in conjunction till 21 and 23 months (1st and 2nd kid respectively. I bought a breastpump before my 1st was even born and I did not work after my kids were born so I was home with them pretty much all the time. But on some occasions, not just flights, I did need to pump. Like a wedding I was in when my son was 5 weeks old and stayed with my mom for several hours. Or a bridal shower I attended when my daughter was 7 weeks old, and though she came along, nursing in the dress I had on wasn't really possible outside of the bathroom, which I refused to o. Or when I took my 2yo to see Elmo live and my 4 month old stayed home with Daddy. Or just to have some pumped milk in the freezer in case I needed to be away from the house longer than I thought, though I can't even say that happened, I just liked to be prepared.

But I think your case is somewhat of an exception, as I think many breastfed babies take bottles when necessary and that many moms who breastfeed can still use a carseat in flight if they so desire.

I've pumped with all 3 of my kids and still ran into problems with them taking bottles. My son didn't care - food was (is) food to that kid, and he wasn't picky about where it was coming from. I joke that he was born with his teenage boy appetite. But both of my girls were fussier about it. My older DD would take bottles but not from me and not if I were nearby, so there was no way she was taking a bottle with me sitting in the seat beside her. And my younger DD is just spoiled. I didn't go out without her much when she was tiny, and she never did accept bottles.

 

[snoopy5386]

I'm sure she was not, but why not use a bottle? Our ped has a 2yo and one on the way and flies often, NEVER without a carseat for her daughter. And those she breastfeeds, she works so she obviously pumps and the baby gets bottles. She's 2yo and weaned while the mom was pregnant with #2, at 17 months. So she's a big advocate of nursing, extended nursing, but also carseats and safety. You can still feed a baby a bottle in a carseat and it has the same effect as nursing.

Some moms can't pump - I was one of them, it would have taken me a week to pump enough milk for 1 bottle. Plus, I don't need another thing to drag through the airport - breastmilk, freezer packs,a cooler, etc.

Also some babies (my DD included) won't take a bottle or a pacifier at all. And I'm sorry I just can't imagine leaving a baby strapped into a carseat for anything more than a 2 hr flight.

 

[Zeebs]

blimey people could this thread not get anymore controversial subjects in it. LOL

I was gutted when my second wouldn't take a dummy. My first we took the first off him around 7 months when he started waking in the night for it.

I also breast fed while flying, but the majority of our flights are of 12 hours or longer.

There would be no comfort in being sat in a carseat for 12 hours during the flight, when they were small enough they used the sky cot.

At 10 months Seth was too big for sky cot so slept on me for the 9 hour flight from the Uk to WDW.

With regards to bottles, use to think that I would express the milk and then give to kids in bottle, but more trouble than it was worth, if I had to go anywhere without them I timed it for inbetween feeds and everywhere else, if I was there they had milk. They weren't fussed on bottles and to be honest neither am I.

Kirsten

 

[AmyBWV99]

Pacifier Use:

2. Pacifiers should not be forced on babies that reject them.

I kind of giggled at this, I'm a big paci advocate my DS#1-4 years old still has one to sleep and for medical procedures. I don't think he'll get married with it and I seriously do not sweat the small stuff.

I fly with my babies as lap riders and my DS #2 had to nurse his entire way to FL when he was 5 months old. Had he not he'd have been screamer #1 for the flight. Given the choice most other passengers would have agreed with me nursing him. I use a cover and no one knew but their nerves and ears appreciated it I'm sure.

That said DS #1 was a paci lover switched from nursing to bottle no issue from the get go. Now DS#2 was a whole new ball of wax, he comfort nursed, refused the bottle (literally would hunger strike for 6 hours), refused the pacis till about 1 year, never slept thru the night for more than one random night at at a time till 17 months. At 7 months our ped said you have to get him to take the paci or you'll never sleep he finally took it but not on his own until he was about 14 months. If I stuck in his mouth under 2 millon times i'd be surprised.

I'm not going to sit at home just b/c my baby may or may not cry on a flight and bother some one but I do my best to keep the kids still and quiet and overall for all the flights we've taken we've never once had a screamer.

 

[taymacsmom]

I didn't realize babies/children had an "off" switch to their crying. How inconsiderate of the parents to not press that "off" button on your flight. And...where do I locate it on mine??

I love it Tinkerbella! OT - nice to see another family with teens and toddlers. We are an elite group!!

 

[kpm76]

Some moms can't pump - I was one of them, it would have taken me a week to pump enough milk for 1 bottle. Plus, I don't need another thing to drag through the airport - breastmilk, freezer packs,a cooler, etc.

Also some babies (my DD included) won't take a bottle or a pacifier at all. And I'm sorry I just can't imagine leaving a baby strapped into a carseat for anything more than a 2 hr flight.

ITA! I had enough milk to feed a small country yet did not respond to the pump, despite my best efforts. I gave up because it was not worth the hassle and I didn't need to pump. Even when I did get small amounts of milk, DD completely refused the bottle. She never liked a bottle regardless of what was in it so we went right from nursing to a straw and sippy cup. I had no choice but to nurse on flights.

My ped is a strong advocate for exclusive nursing for 6 months and highly recommended nursing on take off and landing. Most of my friend's peds say the same thing. My FIL is a trauma surgeon and he knew I nursed on flights and didn't think it was an issue.

 

[kevschickee]

I started pumping and DD took a bottle then all of the sudden she stopped. She would only take breast milk while nursing. She would take juice and water out of a cup(after a long time of trying). I had to throw out over 100 oz of breast milk it made me cry because I worked so had on that. So my point is not every baby will take a bottle or a paci

 

[mjkacmom]

I also think that pacifiers shouldn't be used by children -- although I'm not going to call you neglectful for doing so.

.

Hmm - then who should use the pacifiers - adults? Babies are born with an incredible urge to suck. I loved pacifiers - for the first few months, they could have them whenever, and then they could only have them for sleeping, and traumatic situations, like getting shots. My babies LOVED nap and bedtime! They napped 4 - 5 hours a day, slept all night. Giving them up was not hard - we mailed them to Mickey Mouse, and he sent them a present. They are also a way to prevent SIDS. As for dental issues, thanks to a family history of small jaws and crossbites, most of them would need braces anyway (plus, since they were limited, none of them ended up with an overbite).

As for people justifying not buying a seat because they don't want the baby strapped in for the whole flight, you are not obligated to keep them in the carseat for the whole flight. However, when the captain makes the announcement that the seatbelt sign is going up because the plane is going to hit turbulence, it's nice to have the option of being able to strap in the baby, too.

 

[ChristusG]

Free screaming lap baby = annoying
Paying screaming lap baby = okay

The OP is a nut!

And I think this thread did just what the OP wanted....lots of responses, stirred up trouble, and the OP hasnt responded since!

 

[JUJU814]

Free screaming lap baby = annoying
Paying screaming lap baby = okay

The OP is a nut!

And I think this thread did just what the OP wanted....lots of responses, stirred up trouble, and the OP hasnt responded since!

I agree..isn't that often the case?

 

[stella27]

When I flew with our baby who was 4 months old at the time, I had his infant seat in the seat next to me (didn't *buy* the seat, but it was available), and the flight attendant told me specifically that baby could sit in his seat while we were cruising, but for take-off and landing, I had to take him out and hold him.

I think he had it backwards.

 

[justhat]

Hmm - then who should use the pacifiers - adults? Babies are born with an incredible urge to suck. I loved pacifiers - for the first few months, they could have them whenever, and then they could only have them for sleeping, and traumatic situations, like getting shots. My babies LOVED nap and bedtime! They napped 4 - 5 hours a day, slept all night. Giving them up was not hard - we mailed them to Mickey Mouse, and he sent them a present. They are also a way to prevent SIDS. As for dental issues, thanks to a family history of small jaws and crossbites, most of them would need braces anyway (plus, since they were limited, none of them ended up with an overbite).

As for people justifying not buying a seat because they don't want the baby strapped in for the whole flight, you are not obligated to keep them in the carseat for the whole flight. However, when the captain makes the announcement that the seatbelt sign is going up because the plane is going to hit turbulence, it's nice to have the option of being able to strap in the baby, too.

I completely agree. Even if you absolutely *must* nurse your baby on takeoff and landing (though I have yet to see anyone say why that is, just that all these pediatricians and trauma surgeons are saying you have to, yet our ped and my husband don't seem to feel that is necessary, nor did my kids as they never had one issue on a flight), I still see no reason why that means you shouldn't buy the baby a seat and use the carseat. That just doesn't make any sense. Like the poster I quoted said, wouldn't you want the option of putting your baby safely in the carseat if there is turbulence or a rough landing? I know I certainly liked having that peace of mind.

Of course there will be babies like those mentioned above who refuse all artificial nipples, but I think those babies are more the exception than the rule. So to advocate lap babies on those exceptions seems silly. I thnk for the majority of babies, it is safer to be in a carseat and get a pacifier or bottle than to hold them just to be able to nurse them.

A long flight is no different than a long drive to me. We stop to nurse the baby, change its diaper, hold it a bit, then get them back in the carseat and back on the road. If I were on a long flight I would do basically the same thing (and have done), provided the seatbelt sign is off and we're cruising comfortably. Even then, they are brief moments out of the seat cause you never know what will happen. Seems everytime I use an airplane bathroom turbulence starts out of the blue and the seatbelt sign is back on.

And regarding the pacifiers, sure, not all babies will take them, but most babies have a strong urge to suck, it's very soothing, so why not give them a pacifier in that case? I fail to see how that can be abusing a pacifier. And my kids both had them and both gave them up on their own, no prodding from me at all, at 16 months and 9 months (1st and 2nd kid, again). The 2nd kid only ever used his for naps/bedtime, but my daughter had hers in her mouth 24 hours a day and then one day, that was that, no more Nuk for her.