School Uniforms: Your Viewpoint

[Crankyshank]

6 years of uniform is 'very limited personal experience', now?

Wow. So, I'm guessing those 6 years my friend has been working as a bank clerk mean nothing in experience, either?



And how can one insert 'uniqueness' into a strict dress code, where you can't have decor on your clothes, you can't have logos, you can't have frills/trills/hems/lace, where you're required only the colors listed, and only the styles/types listed?

I find it rather hard. Especially when they start to say you can't have anything other than school colors as underclothes. And when they start to say you have to wear the uniform on the bus. I always ignored that and changed right out of my shirt on the bus, flashing everyone, the rules be darned. I wasn't under the principal's eyes, then. It was my bus driver who regulated the rules, not the principal. The principal only came into play if something 'negative' arose.

No, seriously, how can you express yourself/add to the uniform when the code strictly forbades it? "Blue, Green, or White shirts; Blue, Green, or Navy pants; Pants, shorts, or skirts; Polo shirts only. No logos, no decor, no words...no pins; Blue, Green, or White socks; Blue, Green, Brown, or Black belt;...." Fail to see how one can express themselves if it goes against the rules.

Whoa settle down there. Looks like I struck a nerve I wasn't even directing towards you.

I guess in your case you are not a terribly creative person or just wasn't motivated to think outside of the box because I know plenty of people that were able to incorporate their style into a uniform a lot stricter than yours with different types of accessories.

 

[Ariel Mae]

I'm a mother, and yes, they would make my life easier.

How does it make a mother's life easier?

I guess it truly depends on the enforcement/type of uniform.

Me, I always hated seeing my mom spend extra money on something that would only last a year, if not less. I hated that she had double loads of clothes to wash b/c of the uniform.

If anything, it made our lives worse.

 

[USA Here I Come]

I'm English and all British public and private schools have uniforms. In high school I wore trousers, black shoes, school blouse, school tie and school blazer. Myself and my friends never felt like we couldn't express ourselves, we did that through our academic work, theatre, music, sport and art. Uniforms got rid of a lot of pressure you feel as a teenager due to someone else wearing 'cooler' clothes.

Schools are supposed to train the future work force, and lets face it most people can't go to work in jeans, t-shirts and trainers (sneakers).

I'm eighteen but will most likely be moving to the States in five years. When I have kids in the future i'd like to try and find schools for them that require uniforms.

 

[Ariel Mae]

Whoa settle down there. Looks like I struck a nerve I wasn't even directing towards you.

Well, you did assume that those of us with the 'anti uniform' philosophy didn't have the 'proper experience'.

That, and uniforms strike a nerve, generally, with me.

I guess in your case you are not a terribly creative person or just wasn't motivated to think outside of the box because I know plenty of people that were able to incorporate their style into a uniform a lot stricter than yours with different types of accessories.

There you are, assuming again. Please, don't do that. I am a very creative woman. I can make anything look artistic. But I couldn't do that when the rules strictly said, 'no'. I'm also a rule follower. I couldn't wear a pin, because I wasn't about to get suspended or get ISI over something as petty as that. We were allowed only certain types of jewelry. I wasn't allowed to wear my Pentacle. They said it was against school rules. We weren't allowed to wear the arm bands with rock star names on them. We weren't allowed to wear any jewelry that could be considered distracting, so those 'spike' bracelets? (Or, in my case, the 'pellet' bracelet...it wasn't a spike, but a metal thing.) Out. Everything I would usually wear to express myself could not be worn. So, again, I ask, how am I supposed to express myself if the rules say 'no'?

 

[Crankyshank]

My Mother had 3 children.

Child #1 went through Catholic School from K-12
Child #2 went through Catholic School from K-2 and then 9-12 and had a much stricter uniform than child #1
Child #3 went to public school from K-12

She maintains that she had the absolute easiest and cheapest experience with child #2 as far as clothing goes when he was in HS with the strictest uniform (only could wear clothes purchased through 1 uniform supply store). Why? No fussing about what to buy, what to wear, and the clothes were the most durable.

You must have some flimsy uniform clothes because both my brother's and my uniform sweater lasted for 4yrs. I know people who their sweater lasted over 10yrs with consistant abuse from multiple siblings. My uniform skirts lasted the whole 4 yrs as well. My elementary school uniforms were discarded when I outgrew them completely (they could be taken in and let out easily unlike "street" clothes) - not because they fell apart.

 

[Ariel Mae]

You must have some flimsy uniform clothes because both my brother's and my uniform sweater lasted for 4yrs.

*sighs*

Okay, so, obviously, it varies, from uniform policy to uniform policy. Because, personally, my mom and I saw more 'worse' than 'better' with uniforms. It was rather hard to find quality in a good polo shirt that would last, and that adhered to school standards. (They even went so far as to say, 'no frill', so I had to stop buying at the Dollar Store). It's rather hard to find quality in a good pair of pants that adheres to school standards, and isn't 100$. I'm sorry, but I would never pay 100$ for a pair of pants, or 25$ for a shirt, for any reason. Uniform or likewise.

 

[Crankyshank]

Well, you did assume that those of us with the 'anti uniform' philosophy didn't have the 'proper experience'.

That, and uniforms strike a nerve, generally, with me.



There you are, assuming again. Please, don't do that. I am a very creative woman. I can make anything look artistic. But I couldn't do that when the rules strictly said, 'no'. I'm also a rule follower. I couldn't wear a pin, because I wasn't about to get suspended or get ISI over something as petty as that. We were allowed only certain types of jewelry. I wasn't allowed to wear my Pentacle. They said it was against school rules. We weren't allowed to wear the arm bands with rock star names on them. We weren't allowed to wear any jewelry that could be considered distracting, so those 'spike' bracelets? (Or, in my case, the 'pellet' bracelet...it wasn't a spike, but a metal thing.) Out. Everything I would usually wear to express myself could not be worn. So, again, I ask, how am I supposed to express myself if the rules say 'no'?

So arm bands, pins, spiked bracelets, and pentacles are the only way you can express yourself? But how dare I make any comment that suggest you are lacking motivation to find ways to express yourself, or are lacking in creativity?

How do you explain then the people who have found ways to express their individuality in the number of schools with much stricter dress codes than the one you described?

 

[Maleficent13]

I'm in the workforce and have been for many years. I'm not allowed to wear many things. Heck, when I worked for Disney I wasn't allowed to dye my hair, wear nailpolish, earrings other than studs, makeup that was noticable, shoes that weren't black...that's just a partial list. I amazingly still managed to be an individual. I'm only at work 7-8 hours a day, 5 days a week. That gives me the majority of my time to wear anything I want.

I'm not saying there aren't valid arguments against uniforms. Just that individuality isn't one of them.

 

[Crankyshank]

*sighs*

Okay, so, obviously, it varies, from uniform policy to uniform policy. Because, personally, my mom and I saw more 'worse' than 'better' with uniforms. It was rather hard to find quality in a good polo shirt that would last, and that adhered to school standards. (They even went so far as to say, 'no frill', so I had to stop buying at the Dollar Store). It's rather hard to find quality in a good pair of pants that adheres to school standards, and isn't 100$. I'm sorry, but I would never pay 100$ for a pair of pants, or 25$ for a shirt, for any reason. Uniform or likewise.

I'm wearing a polo shirt right now that is up to every school uniform code in my area. It's 6 yrs old, has been washed numerous times, and cost me $9.99 from the GAP Outlet.

 

[Christine]

My Mother had 3 children.

Child #1 went through Catholic School from K-12
Child #2 went through Catholic School from K-2 and then 9-12 and had a much stricter uniform than child #1
Child #3 went to public school from K-12

She maintains that she had the absolute easiest and cheapest experience with child #2 as far as clothing goes when he was in HS with the strictest uniform (only could wear clothes purchased through 1 uniform supply store). Why? No fussing about what to buy, what to wear, and the clothes were the most durable.

You must have some flimsy uniform clothes because both my brother's and my uniform sweater lasted for 4yrs. I know people who their sweater lasted over 10yrs with consistant abuse from multiple siblings. My uniform skirts lasted the whole 4 yrs as well. My elementary school uniforms were discarded when I outgrew them completely (they could be taken in and let out easily unlike "street" clothes) - not because they fell apart.

I agree with this.

My son has been wearing the same sweater vest for 3 years now. I bought it big and now it fits him perfect. I will have to buy new vests next year. I will sell the old ones at the uniform sale. I wash them in cold water and hand them up to dry. They have no pilling, snags, etc.

My DD wore her ugly plaid skirt from 6-8th grade. She is now in a khaki skirt that we bought used and I'm sure would hold up for the remainder of her high school years if she doesn't outgrow it.

My son's white polos have lasted two years now. My DD's black polos hold up well but, due to the dark color, they do look more faded so I will probably replace.

I have experimented with the Target clothes (the pieces that I can) and they don't last long at all.

 

[Pigeon]

Public school and the working world are two different things. We have compulsory education in the US and children are entitled to a public education in the least restrictive environment.

One choses one's employer and therefore agrees to certain terms of employment. One is paid to accept those terms.

 

[Ariel Mae]

So arm bands, pins, spiked bracelets, and pentacles are the only way you can express yourself?

Of course not, but, other than speech, which was limited, and activities, which were limited, what else do you have? I wasn't allowed to have my Tarot Deck at school, so there goes another form of expression.

But how dare I make any comment that suggest you are lacking motivation to find ways to express yourself, or are lacking in creativity?

*sighs* You cannot, in my opinion, show individuality when the rules strictly forbade it.

How do you explain then the people who have found ways to express their individuality in the number of schools with much stricter dress codes than the one you described?

Breaking of rules. Wearing what isn't allowed, showing what isn't allowed, saying what isn't allowed, doing what isn't allowed...that's the only way it could be done. At least at my school. I couldn't wear my jewelry of Faith, so that knocked out my expression of Faith. I couldn't wear my jewelry of my favorite bands, to that knocked out another expression. I couldn't decorate my clothes, or shoes, or body, or hair...and I certainly couldn't wear an over amount of makeup, for I'd be sent home for being 'distracting'. They pretty much knocked out every form of expressing one's indivudality. You weren't allowed to say certain things, for 'fear' of being caught. You weren't allowed to wear certain things, for 'fear' of it being distracting. You weren't allowed to bring/do certain things for 'fear' of it being 'against the 'norm'.

So, again, I fail to see how I could have expressed myself without breaking every rule.

 

[Andy B]

So, again, I ask, how am I supposed to express myself if the rules say 'no'?

Through thought and word and deed. I wore uniform from 4yr old to 16 yr old and I do not think that I was ever considered anything other than an individual.

I think you are obsessing too much. In the UK Uniforms are common for State schools as well as Private schools although not universal but we have produces some of the worlds great individuals, known as eccentrics.

 

[Maleficent13]

Public school and the working world are two different things. We have compulsory education in the US and children are entitled to a public education in the least restrictive environment.

One choses one's employer and therefore agrees to certain terms of employment. One is paid to accept those terms.

I agree with this, but assuming you need to employed, you'll be hard-pressed to find something without some sort of restrictions on appearance. I agree you are free to keep looking until you find one that fits your criteria of expressing your individuality, but you may get mighty hungry before you find one.

 

[Crankyshank]

I'm in the workforce and have been for many years. I'm not allowed to wear many things. Heck, when I worked for Disney I wasn't allowed to dye my hair, wear nailpolish, earrings other than studs, makeup that was noticable, shoes that weren't black...that's just a partial list. I amazingly still managed to be an individual. I'm only at work 7-8 hours a day, 5 days a week. That gives me the majority of my time to wear anything I want.

I'm not saying there aren't valid arguments against uniforms. Just that individuality isn't one of them.

That brings up a good point, Mal. I have to say my Catholic school uniform experience was the best thing for as far as learning how to dress professionally in a comfortable manner and still be able to express my personality. I can do it without thinking in the morning because it's second nature to me.
In fact, with what I'm wearing now at work would be uniform acceptable in several private schools in my area.

 

[Andy B]

Public school and the working world are two different things. We have compulsory education in the US and children are entitled to a public education in the least restrictive environment.

One choses one's employer and therefore agrees to certain terms of employment. One is paid to accept those terms.

Why in the least restrictive environment?

 

[Ariel Mae]

Public school and the working world are two different things. We have compulsory education in the US and children are entitled to a public education in the least restrictive environment.

One choses one's employer and therefore agrees to certain terms of employment. One is paid to accept those terms.

Exactly!

I'm wearing a polo shirt right now that is up to every school uniform code in my area. It's 6 yrs old, has been washed numerous times, and cost me $9.99 from the GAP Outlet.

You're just not getting it, are you? 10$ a shirt is not acceptable for me. I'm sorry, but it's not. Especially when you need five of the same shirts. 50$ on shirts? Nope, sorry. Not going to happen. Now, 5$ a shirt, five shirts, 25$, that's a cut in half deal. Expense is a great factor in my decision to be 'anti uniform'. 25$ for a pair of pants? Times Five? 115$? I think not. 8-10$ for pants, times five, 45-100$, still not that great a deal, but a better deal.

And, the polo shirts we bought, no matter how 'expensive' still got dirty, especially if white, and did not last, because we wore them, 10 hours a day. And they went through two to three washes a week. I've found that 'quantity' does not express, most of the time, 'quality'. I've had 'cheaper' clothes last longer than 'brand/expensive' clothing. Except in the name of the uniform. I've found 'brand/expensive clothing' are the only ones that last over a year, but as I said, it's not an expense I, or my mother, were willing to take.

And, average out wash fees, it comes out greatly. Not something we personally wanted.

 

[KikiFan]

No, seriously, how can you express yourself/add to the uniform when the code strictly forbades it? "Blue, Green, or White shirts; Blue, Green, or Navy pants; Pants, shorts, or skirts; Polo shirts only. No logos, no decor, no words...no pins; Blue, Green, or White socks; Blue, Green, Brown, or Black belt;...." Fail to see how one can express themselves if it goes against the rules.

My daughter does it everyday. Everyday has a different color theme for her. She's got a watch kit that has about 20 different bands and faces. She's makes funky jewelry, earrings, bracelets and necklaces. She buys scraps of quilting material and makes hair bands to match every color or theme. She pays more attention to styling her hair, trying new styles all the time.

It's definitely more challanging but it can be done. And I've found that it's lead her to be more creative in other areas. She makes her own book covers, decorates her own binders. Heck she's even designed her own lunch box.

You are right clothing is a major form of self expression but it's not the only one. And in my experience when you remove that it encourages kids to go beyond the obvious and hopefully look beyond the obvious in others.

 

[Ariel Mae]

Through thought and word and deed. I wore uniform from 4yr old to 16 yr old and I do not think that I was ever considered anything other than an individual.

Again, what if what we said/did was limited by the rules? That's my point! That's how it was at my school! I couldn't be the Pagan I am b/c the rules went against it. I couldn't express who I was, through word/deed because there was always something that could be 'against the rules'.

I think you are obsessing too much. In the UK Uniforms are common for State schools as well as Private schools although not universal but we have produces some of the worlds great individuals, known as eccentrics.

I'm not 'obsessing'. And the UK uniforms vary from the US uniforms. As the US uniforms vary state to state, county to county.

I fail to see, though, how having uniforms creates a 'great individual'.

 

[Pigeon]

Why in the least restrictive environment?

Because that's the law.